Quote Originally Posted by silentchild
indicates that he is not sad? No, he is as cheerful as a buzzing bee, doing the cha-cha in samba land. Yes indeed. And his guilt and grief that carried on for TWO YEARS into AC?? He's just mourning the ballet lessons he never had. Poor Cloud.
Of course he's sad. His friend just died, anyone would be sad about that. What he's saying is that he wasn't absolutely devastated by it.

And if Cloud wasn't devastated by the loss of his hometown, then gee, he must be pretty feelingless. Only a blind man would say he wasn't devastated.
Of course he was. He was also devastated by the loss of his mother and Tifa, both of which he put before his home. This means he puts Tifa near the same level as is his mother.


Zack is not Cloud. Here is a very good essay written about it, and since you refuse to click on any links I give you, I'll nicely quote it here.
All right, I read this, and your correct, he is not Zack. At least, not entirely.

Aeris ".........first off, it bothered me how you looked exactly alike. Two completely different people, but look exactly the same. The way you walk, gesture...I think I must have seen him again, in you..."
Aeris "But you're different."
Aeris "Things are different..."
Aeris "Cloud...I'm searching for you..."
Cloud "............?"
Aeris "I want to meet you."
Cloud "But I'm right here."
Aeris (I know, I know... what I mean is...) "I want to meet..... you."
By the first line, it suggests that Aeris was at first attracted to him because of the ways he was like Zack. "I think I must have seen him again, in you..." This is basically say that this is what she first saw in him, and why she liked him. The last few lines, speaking of meeting the real Cloud, seem to suggest that didn't ever really meet him. While Zack's personality seems quite different from Cloud's (Which we know from the few scenes Zack was in), Aeris still seems to think that they were enough alike that she really never met Cloud.

Aeris "What rank were you?"
Cloud "Rank?"
Aeris "You know, in SOLDIER."
Cloud "Oh, I was...First Class."
Aeris "Just the same as him."
Cloud "The same as who?"
Aeris "My first boyfriend."
Cloud "You were... serious?"
Aeris "No. But I liked him for a while."
Cloud "I probably knew him. What was his name?"
Aeris "It doesn't really matter."

Like I said before this is the first time Zack is brought into the game and this little conversation tells a lot about her present feelings at the time. When Aeris first asks what rank Cloud is, it shows how she has already noticed some similarity between the two considering the question came a bit out of nowhere and also when looking at her response to his answer.

Aeris "Just the same as him."

It shows how she is making a comparison between the two and remembering certain things about Zack through Cloud. Cloud then goes on to ask who she is speaking of.

Aeris "My first boyfriend."

This is the first time we find out that Aeris and Zack were a pair (couple) at some time before the game actually begins. We however are not given much information on it such as how long it lasted and since she seems to speak so openly about it, her personality and mood during this period kind of shows that the whole discussion is more or less everyday conversation. Aeris is a very emotional character, so if this relationship was so serious why wouldn’t she show more emotion instead of just sitting on the slide and talking like it was just one of many memories. Wait? Was it serious?

(Continued)

Aeris "No. But I liked him for a while."

Cloud asks openly if her and Zack’s relationship “really” meant something to her and she flat out says no. Kind of a personal question, but her answer doesn’t make it seem so. She even shakes her head quickly as if to emphasis this. Actions and words both speak loud in this case. Cloud then continues seeing she isn’t deeply hurt in discussing the topic.

Cloud "I probably knew him. What was his name?"

This part I find most interesting. If Aeris was so obsessed with Zack, wouldn’t she go crazy at hearing this? Cloud might have known him, he says. Now at this point in the game we as the gamer don’t know what is to come, so all we really know, along with Aeris, is that Cloud could very well know this mysterious SOLDIER. So therefore if Cloud may know him than he also might be able to tell what happened to him, what they had done together in SOLDIER (if they happened to be old buddies), and above all else to Aeris WHERE ZACK MIGHT BE!!! Yes we later find out Zack died, but Aeris does not know this and I don’t think it is even found out on disk one at that. So shouldn’t Aeris be jumping for joy with this new hope of finding her love again? But, what’s this? What does she say?

Aeris "It doesn't really matter."

Funny, how Aeris could have told Cloud Zack’s name and perhaps with his help found Zack so she could be with him. Remember again that Aeris doesn’t know that Zack is dead and that Cloud (at this point in the game, work with me&#33 doesn’t know him. Doesn’t she even want to try? Doesn’t seem like it, does it? So does this mean that Zack didn’t mean as much to Aeris in a romantic way as we thought he did?
Lets think back for a minute, when Cloud and the group speak to Aeris's mother about Aeris. Her mother says that she was able to feel her husband's death. So, why wouldn't she be able to feel Zack's death? She probably be able to sense it, considering she could sense someone she never even knew. I doubt anyone would want to be reminded too much of someone they had lost. I haven't seen AC yet, but from what I've heard, Cloud begins to blame himself over again after receiving a gift from Aeris's mother. Obviously, he didn't want to be reminded. So why would Aeris?

(They speak about Zack and how he was Aeris’s boyfriend and all)
Cloud "Strange, there aren't that many who make First Class, but I've never heard of him."
Aeris "That's all right. It's all in the past now. I was just worried because I heard he's been missing."

That’s all in the past now. Doesn’t this confirm what I’ve said before? Right there in that statement Aeris states she has moved on from whatever her and Zack had had. The dialogue continues.

Cloud "Missing?"
Aeris "I think it was 5 years ago. He went out on a job, and never came back. He loved women, a real lady's man. He probably found someone else...”
Aeris "Hey? What's wrong?"

Now after saying this if Aeris was indeed very depressed over the whole Zack thing wouldn’t she have been quiet afterward or shown some sort of emotion? But instead she asks Cloud what’s wrong, indicating how nothing should be upsetting after having this conversation. Kind of funny how she bounces back so quickly after being very depressed over Zack. Anyway, the conversation continues.

Choice Poor guy
(jealous... envious...) [========={If you pick this one all Aeris does is tease Cloud for being jealous of Zack. Doesn’t this show how she distinguishes between the two and doesn’t see them as being the same? Just a thought, but that is not the focus so we will choose the option in Cloud x Tifa favor just for kicks}

(Continued)


Aeris "I don't really mind that I haven't heard from him. But I feel for his parents."

But if she was in love with him, wouldn’t she mind? This confirms what I have said before. Good ol` Aeris always feeling for others. She feels bad that his parents have been suffering over their son being missing, she doesn’t feel bad that she is not able to be with him because he is missing. Yes Aeris is worried about his well being, but this shows more of a friendship type relationship (if even that) that she most likely now holds toward Zack.

The big question concerning all that’s been said is probably why doesn’t Aeris find or think that it matters, as she has said a couple of times now. The answer is simple. She doesn’t find it important to dwell in the past. I remember once reading an interview with Hironobou Sakaguchi in which he said Aeris is basically the symbolism of life and living for the future. This is pretty apparent, what does Aeris always talk about? The future. She says one day she will get out of Midgar, listen to the planet and go find her promised land. Aeris tells about how much she would like to take a ride on the highwind sometime. In the temple of the ancients, she says that later the group will look back at all these hard times and laugh. Lastly, she says she would come back when it was all over. In the game, whose main theme is LIFE, the personification of it is displayed through Aeris. It’s the way the developers personally start to involve the player with the theme. Many complain about Aeris’s personality being too happy and lively but her personality was designed this way because of the life and hope for the future she displays. Zack represents the past and death. Aeris character which always looks toward the future would be breaking her symbolism by dwelling in the past and clinging to Zack.
If what I suggested before was correct and she had felt him die, of course she wouldn't mind him not contacting her. After all, that fairly difficult after death. The stuff about him being a "ladie's man" was simply an excuse not to talk about her power. (Which I don't believe she knew that Cloud knew about it) She had moved on, yes, as most people do. People in reality get married to people they really love, and after they die, they move on in time. Of course, another reason for her to move on was that she had found someone else who was like him.


So? Let's take a look at your beloved 'Highwind scene', shall we?

Again, the following is not written by me.

Okay, let's assume we got the most date points for Tifa and got the High Affection version of the Highwind scene, just to tip things in your favour :
I don't have time to dscuss this one, but I probably will a little later.




Are you saying that love cannot transcend borders such as death? Are you saying that spiritual bonds mean nothing? Are you telling me that Yuna is a fool for still loving Tidus even after two years? Are you saying Shuyin is an idiot for continuing to love Lenne after 1000 years? Are you telling me that a physical relationship is the *only way* two people can share a bond and love each other?

If that is what you are saying, I rest my case.
Yuna was never entirely sure what happened to Tidus (He never explained the dream thing to them), so for all she knew, he was still alive. That was kind of the point of her journey in X-2 in the first place because she thought he was still alive. As for Shuyin and Lenne, well, I never got more than half way through the game, so I don't know much about them.