Another hurricane?

[Sasquatch]

So tonight, Hurricane Rita is going to hit the coast of Texas. Last I heard, it should be a Category 4, but it might end up as a Category 5. It might sweep through Galveston, which has been hit by prettymuch every bad thing you can imagine, and who's defenses against hurricanes and storm surges (17' wall around the city) have only been tested by Cat 3's. Some damage estimates have reached $800 billion -- that's $800,000,000,000. Houston, the fourth largest city in America, is nearly a ghost town now because of everybody having evacuated.

You heard me. Everybody left.

People said "Hey, there's a bigass storm coming, and everybody is telling me to leave, so I think I WILL." Very few people are staying back to weather the storm (no pun intended).

My question is...why? Why do they follow directions in Houston, but not in New Orleans, where they knew it would be incredibly devastating? Is it because those in Houston have places to go to get away, and those in New Orleans didn't? Or are people in Houston just smarter, and listen to repeated warnings to evacuate, while people in New Orleans ignored them? Is it that the emergency teams are racist and Texas is better warned becuase there aren't as many blacks there? Or could it be simply that people saw what Katrina did, and are more willing to listen when they say "get the hell out"?

Another thing I do like, too. Texas has a "looter law". Meaning, if you see somebody coming on your property with the direct intent to cause harm to you or your property, you have the legal right to shoot them. Food stores and such, this won't happen -- taking food from the Quicky-Mart isn't looting -- but what happened in New Orleans, where some people took advantage of the opportunity to steal everything they could get their hands on? Uh-uh.

[Dreddz]

Tragic, affected us down here in Uk as well with Oil prices and all......

[Laugh at face of Danger]

is this as in a third one?

~oh no its not, and anyway, its because people were stubborn as hell and though "screw the storm, we'll stay" but after other people have seen what happened before they thought "okay, maybe we'll go..."

[eestlinc]

Many people didn't leave New Orleans because they had no way to leave other than on foot, and sheriffs from neighboring areas over higher ground formed armed blockades preventing people from New Orleans entering these outlying areas. Others didn't leave because they figured it wouldn't be such a bad storm, and because New Orleansians are notoriously stubborn and prideful about such things.

That said, over 80% of New Orleans did evacuate. I would image a smaller percent of Houstonians evacuated than that, and the evacuation order in Houston was only mandatory for those in floodplain areas. Anyway, it makes perfect sense for more people to pay heed to hurricane evacuations only weeks after a major hurricane devastated another nearby area.

Also, Hurricane Rita has been downgraded to Cat 3 and is continuing to weaken. It's also likely not going to make a direct hit on Galveston or Houston, but hit between Galveston and Port Arthur. Of course, who knows what will happen until it does.

<b>Finally, we do have a discussion of the hurricane in the EotW forum, and those of you who are unable to see that forum miss out on that discussion, such as it is.</b>

[Sasquatch]

Many people didn't leave New Orleans because they had no way to leave other than on foot, and sheriffs from neighboring areas over higher ground formed armed blockades preventing people from New Orleans entering these outlying areas.

You're telling me local police officers formed "armed blockades" to prevent people from getting to higher ground in a situation where they knew there'd be massive flooding? Do you have any sources that would back up that claim?

<b>Finally, we do have a discussion of the hurricane in the EotW forum, and those of you who are unable to see that forum miss out on that discussion, such as it is.</b>

Sorry, I forgot. No serious discussions in GC, only spam.

<b>EDIT BY RSL</b> --- eestlinc's comments were in response to about 15 modwhore posts that were deleted in this thread. This thread is fine.

[eestlinc]

You're telling me local police officers formed "armed blockades" to prevent people from getting to higher ground in a situation where they knew there'd be massive flooding? Do you have any sources that would back up that claim?

yes. from the Sep 9, 2005 Washington Times, no less:

http://washtimes.com/upi/20050908-112433-4907r.htm

Police from surrounding jurisdictions shut down several access points to one of the only ways out of New Orleans last week, effectively trapping victims of Hurricane Katrina in the flooded and devastated city.
An eyewitness account from two San Francisco paramedics posted on an internet site for Emergency Medical Services specialists says, "Thousands of New Orleaners were prevented and prohibited from self-evacuating the city on foot."
"We shut down the bridge," Arthur Lawson, chief of the City of Gretna Police Department, confirmed to United Press International, adding that his jurisdiction had been "a closed and secure location" since before the storm hit.
"All our people had evacuated and we locked the city down," he said.
The bridge in question -- the Crescent City Connection -- is the major artery heading west out of New Orleans across the Mississippi River.
Lawson said that once the storm itself had passed Monday, police from Gretna City, Jefferson Parrish and the Louisiana State Crescent City Connection Police Department closed to foot traffic the three access points to the bridge closest to the West Bank of the river.

[Traitorfish]

Tragic, affected us down here in Uk as well with Oil prices and all......

Not really a tragedy, was it? More of a slight inconvenience? Unless you're a trucker, then it's a considerable inconvenience. But still not a tradgedy.
I think they left this time because the world's just had a reminder of how bad these things can be.

EDIT: That's not very nice, about the police blockade. How could they do that? It's sick.
He he. Sasquatch was proved wrong. He always says 'What? A slight contradiction to my own views! Blasphemy!'. It's annoying.

[Sasquatch]

yes. from the Sep 9, 2005 Washington Times, no less:

http://washtimes.com/upi/20050908-112433-4907r.htm

Police from surrounding jurisdictions shut down several access points to one of the only ways out of New Orleans last week, effectively trapping victims of Hurricane Katrina in the flooded and devastated city.
An eyewitness account from two San Francisco paramedics posted on an internet site for Emergency Medical Services specialists says, "Thousands of New Orleaners were prevented and prohibited from self-evacuating the city on foot."
"We shut down the bridge," Arthur Lawson, chief of the City of Gretna Police Department, confirmed to United Press International, adding that his jurisdiction had been "a closed and secure location" since before the storm hit.
"All our people had evacuated and we locked the city down," he said.
The bridge in question -- the Crescent City Connection -- is the major artery heading west out of New Orleans across the Mississippi River.
Lawson said that once the storm itself had passed Monday, police from Gretna City, Jefferson Parrish and the Louisiana State Crescent City Connection Police Department closed to foot traffic the three access points to the bridge closest to the West Bank of the river.

I stand corrected. However...

-- "There was no food, water or shelter" in Gretna City, Lawson said. "We did not have the wherewithal to deal with these people.
-- "Evidently, someone on the ground (in New Orleans) was telling people there was transport here, or food or shelter," said Lawson. "There wasn't."
-- "We commandeered public transit buses and we took them to higher and safer ground" at the junction of Interstate-10 and Causeway Boulevard where "there was food and shelter," he said.

Sounds to me like one bridge was closed to avoid another area being further overcrowded, which wouldn't have helped anything. Doesn't sound like the city was quarantined. It isn't like the there was some closing closing envelope and nobody was let out anywhere, or they were marched at gunpoint into the flooded city.

Not really a tragedy, was it? More of a slight inconvenience? Unless you're a trucker, then it's a considerable inconvenience. But still not a tradgedy.

Actually, I'm sure Dreddz mentioned "tragic" in regards to what happened to new Orleans, not what happened to gas prices in the UK. When more than 800 people die and somebody mentions "tragic", it's not because it made gas prices go up. Most people value life more than that.

[Giga Guess]

Why did people evacuate Houston, but not New Orleans?

Have you heard the saying "Once bitten twice shy?" The people in New Orleans either thought they've seen enough hurricanes they can handle this one, or just weren't able to evacuate. Now that Bush has a MAJOR embarassment on his hands, he's not taking any chances in Houston, because, as said, it's the 4th largest city in the U.S. and the death toll if this didn't happened could potentially be astronomical.

[Sasquatch]

...actually... How was Katrina an embarrassment for Bush? The late response by the National Guard? No, that's under state control. FEMA? No, Bush doesn't really control that either. It was a complete failure, in nearly all aspects, on the part of the government of New Orleans, and even Louisiana, but there's not much the federal government was supposed to do, or could do anyway. It's a shame that he's got to go to Texas to "save face". He shouldn't have to go, he doesn't really, but if he doesn't, some people (ahem) will just insult more.

[Giga Guess]

Truthfully, you ARE right....I guess I worded myself poorly. But it is the case, at any rate that this time around, there HAD to be quick action.

[Sasquatch]

True. Whether Bush went there or not, we're much better prepared for Rita than we were for Katrina. It could be because Texas has a more competant government than Louisiana, or simply that we know how serious the situation can be now that it's already happened to New Orleans. Of, more likely, a combination of the two. This time, the National Guard is already prepared, and they've already lined up relief operations and supplies. They're already pulled off a better evacuation of Houston than of any area around Katrina, and nearly every aspect of Houston's preperation is better than that of New Orleans. Here's to hoping Rita is nowhere near as destructive as Katrina.

[Shlup]

I'm just assuming that everyone--both citizens and officials--are responding better to Rita because they've learned their lesson from Katrina, other than the fact that Huston residents are more likely to have a car to get into and drive away.

[eestlinc]

How was Katrina an embarrassment for Bush? The late response by the National Guard? No, that's under state control. FEMA? No, Bush doesn't really control that either. It was a complete failure, in nearly all aspects, on the part of the government of New Orleans, and even Louisiana, but there's not much the federal government was supposed to do, or could do anyway.

Bush could have, perhaps, staffed FEMA with competent experts in disaster management, rather than stuffing it with political hacks as thanks for campaign work. Or, he could take the role of the federal government seriously rather than intentionally undermining the ability of government agencies to operate successfully. You say the state and local governments sucked it up, and they did, but large scale natural disasters are generally beyond the scope of even the best state and local governments. This is exactly why its important to have a capable and trained federal organization to manage the response to such overwhelming disasters. You say Texas has handled their hurricane much better, but it hasn't hit yet, and we don't know what will happen when and after it hits. Time will tell. I certainly hope we can respond better.

[-N-]

I'm just assuming that everyone--both citizens and officials--are responding better to Rita because they've learned their lesson from Katrina.

My parents are slow learners. :\