Going to Hell

[bipper]

What Dreams May Come was a sweet, great movie. Easily in my top tens. I wouldn't feel that the movie did much justice to the views of heaven, but I put more stock in thier view of hell. The eternal abyss, the firey brimstone, the jaws of hell, all seem to illude to more than a mere existance with false principles.

That aside, I guess the lines of judgment that you speak of are completley different than mine. That aside, either way you precieve judgment, it comes with the revelations as it is clearly pointed out there, in mathew, and somewhat in John. Revelations was written direcly by john as well. That is worth a note.

Bipper

[Optium]

I base the comments about What Dreams May Come on my Doctrine
teacher of last year (who spent the majority of his life studying doctrine)
so while I may not believe it myself, I do believe that he knows about
what the church's teachings are. We watched the movie in that class and
he pointed out a lot of things. Many of the things that are in the movie,
regarding both heaven and hell, are completely up in the air because there
are a lot of aspects which the church says nothing about, because they
can say nothing about them simply due to the fact that they have no
idea.

Basically what I'm getting at though is that most people have the
completely wrong idea of both heaven and hell because the way they are
taught in church is...dumbed down for the masses. Whereas if you have
45 minutes a day 5 days a week to study what the church TRULY
teaches, then you begin to understand that everything is figurative,
and everything is a metaphor which takes an incredible amount of time
and effort to truly understand.

.opt

[Old Manus]

This thread is worthy of EoEO.

[bipper]

Yes opt, I do agree with you in many instances.
The only doctrin I read is a lil book called the Bible. I read it quite a bit, and I still precieve hell as being painful, torment of nonexistance. Heaven has a lot of defferent descriptions, and I do agree that that movie had a lot of very close overtones to it.

I just think that we wait for revelations, and the end of the world as we know it, before we stand to be judged. However, Jesus says that tommorow I will see you in heven to one of the theves whome was crucified by him. Some say this means that people die, and go to heaven. Some think it means that when we die, we sleep and the end judgment comes very fast. Its all up to interpetation really.

I don't claim I know 100% about Heaven or Hell, just what I have read out of the Bible.
Bipper

[Optium]

Ya man, I hear that, I'm just saying that I think our perception of judgement
isn't even close to what was really meant.

As for the ideas about the amount of time we wait, or whatnot, the
teaching is normally that those realms are outside of time. So when they
say time is infinite, and you spend eternity in heaven or hell, that doesn't
really mean a long time. That's how we perceive it because it's all we
know, but instead of thinking of it as "eternity" think of it as "all at once."

The doctrine teacher was telling us about this, and he drew on the
board a horizontal line. Then he intersected it near the end with a vertical
one and was talking about how time on the right side was our time in
heaven, and the left side of the line was our time on earth. But then he
extended the line on the right, and he erased it again and made it even
shorter this time, and it went on but he was trying to display that time
is relative and that if you're outside of time altogether, then eternity
isn't a long time, it's just the state of being...in a sense. I came up with
an idea and I showed it to him. Instead of drawing 2 lines to represent
the two stages of existance, I drew one line, and then after that line I
simply put a dot. He liked the idea but he said "why is the line straight?"
Instead, he erased the line and drew a circle around the dot to show
that heaven doesn't necessarily come AFTER life, but rather it is always
just above, below, beside, etc life.

It's so hard to articulate this type of thing, but spending a lot of time in
that class was really what it took. Thinking constantly and asking
questions is the only way to really start to grasp that stuff. Of course
the first step in thinking is obviously reading the Bible, but if you ever
have the chance to take any type of philosophy of Catholicism/doctrine
course, I think you'd find it very interesting.

.opt

[Winter Nights]

All of this is why I'd gladly take hell over heaven, if such places existed.

You disagree so strongly with the concept of forgiveness?

Nope, just in everything your God stands for. Which, BTW, isn't forgiveness.

It's fairly obvious you don't know much about what "my God" stands for. Especially considering that you don't know who "my God" is -- I've helped to explain Christianity. But let me get this straight...we're all sinners, and "my God" is willing to forgive us to let us get into Heaven instead of going to Hell like we deserve...and that's bad?

Not going here. This thread isn't for debate. I have an opinion and it isn't the same as yours. Get over this and drop it.

[Sasquatch]

Bipper and Opt have some good points, and raise some interesting questions. Especially regarding time -- in life, afterlife, and between the two.

Not going here. This thread isn't for debate. I have an opinion and it isn't the same as yours. Get over this and drop it.

I hadn't posted here in three days. What's your problem?

[Del Murder]

I think I'll be ok. Heaven sounds pretty good, I don't know why anyone would choose Hell over Heaven, but I don't believe in either so it's really a moot point.

[Odaisé Gaelach]

...This meant that the worst spot in hell was reserved for traitors...

[Winter Nights]

Bipper and Opt have some good points, and raise some interesting questions. Especially regarding time -- in life, afterlife, and between the two.

Not going here. This thread isn't for debate. I have an opinion and it isn't the same as yours. Get over this and drop it.

I hadn't posted here in three days. What's your problem?

it's a forum, it doesn't really matter much. If it was a chat room, then you'd have a decent point.

Mwahahaha...


Actually, since I hadn't been in this thread in three days, it really doesn't matter when you posted. And all I said was that I wasn't getting into this subject again. :rolleyes2

[Del Murder]

Isn't arguing about getting into that subject just as bad as getting into it?

[DMKA]

No.

[Winter Nights]

Isn't arguing about getting into that subject just as bad as getting into it?

Probably. I'll leave it alone.

[RPJesus]

I think I'll be ok. Heaven sounds pretty good, I don't know why anyone would choose Hell over Heaven, but I don't believe in either so it's really a moot point.

People say they'd choose Hell over Heaven because they think it makes them sound cool. Y'know, dark or whatever.

[Optium]

Exactly. Though it's wierd to see someone with a Manson sig say that. ;P

.opt