Final Fantasy tactics relations with ff7?

[One_WinGed_d3mon]

hey i found a theory that could prove a little that a small relationship exists between Final Fantasy VII and its lesser-known brother Final Fantasy Tactics
it has been said in FFT a land called Ivalice was once technologically advanced (Midgar?). There is also an opportunity to gain Cloud as a character by transporting him from the past. Before he actually joins your party, he'll disappear, later reappearing after fighting some enemies. And guess what? Apparently Cloud had been defending a 'flower girl' which bears a striking resemblance to Aeris. Perhaps this is Square's rough-cut conclusion to the mystery of Final Fantasy VII?

[RedCydranth]

Wait.. WHAT? Cloud is in FFT? OMGZ0RZ~ There is a flower girl? NO WAY!!!! OMG OMG OMG! U maed my dae dood!


Yeah, We know. FFT has Cloud and Aeris. Ramza buys a flower from Aeris in Zarghidas and of course we all know Cloud is in the game. This is NOT news. In fact we all know the many ties FFT has to FF7

Cloud
Aeris
Materia

Wait... i think that is it. Or at least all i care to think about.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

It's generally agreed upon that Cloud made his way to the FFT world while traveling the lifestream, just as while he's in the hospital he mutters "Zenosgias", and a few lines from the song "Small Two of Pieces" from the game Xenogears.

[Cipher]

I think the point that the OP is trying to make is more about the lines of the theory that FFVII is something of a pre-cursor to FFT.

i.e., they take place in the same world.

I could see it being possible.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I think the point that the OP is trying to make is more about the lines of the theory that FFVII is something of a pre-cursor to FFT.

i.e., they take place in the same world.

I could see it being possible.

I realize this and I don't think so. The world is too different. Remember also that the world is larger than just what you visit.

[?????]

They can't be the same world. FFT's world is Ivalice, while FFVII takes place here, at least several thousand years in the future. And even if by some off chance it's not (the brochure-thing that says it's Gaia is wrong, because it contradicts in-game information) the worlds are too different anyway.

[Russ80]

I wonder if FF12 will be related to FFT in the way that the OP is trying to say b/c it's supposedly in Ivalice too.

[Cipher]

Well, that's the thing. Cloud apparently came "from the past," if the game is to be believed. So I think it could very well be possible that Ivalice is Midgar thrown back into the dark ages.

But then again, it's too obscure a point to even think about beyond idle curiosity.

[eestlinc]

Square just did it as a marketing trick and subtle nod to other games they had released aroudn the same time.

[Masamune·1600]

I think the point that the OP is trying to make is more about the lines of the theory that FFVII is something of a pre-cursor to FFT.

i.e., they take place in the same world.

I could see it being possible.

Well, that's the thing. Cloud apparently came "from the past," if the game is to be believed. So I think it could very well be possible that Ivalice is Midgar thrown back into the dark ages.

But then again, it's too obscure a point to even think about beyond idle curiosity.

The idea, to put it flatly, simply doesn't work. First off, the entire matter of the Lifestream (an absolutely critical matter for the Planet) is never once raised in FFT; regardless of time, Gaia could not survive without it. Further, given that all traces, even on a basic archaelogical level (and certainly cultural level) of Midgar and the like have disappeared, we're left with the possibility of an utterly enormous temporal gap. When one also considers how the continents would have shifted, we're left to contemplate a temporal remove so vast that it becomes literally pointless to even try and link the games.

Beyond this, we're left to ponder the question of apparent continuity errors. According to the Materia found as Treasures in FFT, they originated in Salonia (a location, incidentally, from FFIII). This, obviously, it wholly at odds with FFVII and its critical and immutable mythology.

Beyond that, the problem works in reverse. The FFVII mythology does nothing to account for important FFT ideas, such as the Lucavi.

Moreover, one should consider what Cloud himself actually says.

Summoned young man: What happened? Last thing I remember was
getting caught in the current.

Besrodio: Hum, I've read about this before. It could be some
forwarding device.

Mustadio: Forwarding device?

Besrodio: You know, to travel to other worlds, different
space.

Ramza: So, he came from other space?

Besrodio: Maybe. Look at his clothes, Quite unusual.

Summoned young man: My....name's Cloud. yes...Cloud.

Ramza: I'm Ramza. They're my friends....

Reference is repeatedly made to "other worlds" and "other space," but not to "our world" or "different time." This suggests that Cloud was drawn from a location other than the planet of FFT.

Clearly, Cloud's appearance is in the nature of a cameo. Besrodio's machine is merely a deus ex machina, whose only purpose is to allow a popular character entrance to the world of FFT.

They can't be the same world. FFT's world is Ivalice, while FFVII takes place here, at least several thousand years in the future. And even if by some off chance it's not (the brochure-thing that says it's Gaia is wrong, because it contradicts in-game information) the worlds are too different anyway.

The Planet referenced in FFVII is Gaia. Beyond the brochure, which is an official SE document, one might note that the game includes a location called Gaea's Cliffs. Given that phonetics are all that's important in this case (similar situations would include Boko and Boco), it's understandable that this attests to the name of the planet.

More importantly, there's absolutely nothing in FFVII that suggests that the name of the Planet is not Gaia, nor that the game takes place in our future. I imagine you're thinking of the planets that appear during the animation for Safer Sephiroth's Super Nova spell, but really--that's entirely irrelevant. Besides being a matter of gameplay, the fact that the spell can occur multiple times (and destroy the same planets) suggests that it's somewhat illusory. Further, our cannot actually go supernova, as it lacks the necessary mass.

Ultimately, Earth and Gaia are incompatible. We don't have a Lifestream, and we don't have materia.

I wonder if FF12 will be related to FFT in the way that the OP is trying to say b/c it's supposedly in Ivalice too.

The following is from a reply I made in the FFXII forum concerning the nature of a connection, if one exists, between FFT and FXII.

Not necessarily. In FFT, Ivalice was a essentially a continent, whereas it appears to be the entirety of the planet in FFXII. Further, FFT was rather homogenous as far as sentient species went; there wasn't really anything beyond the human race. FFXII, like FFTA, incorporates a plentitude of other species, such as the Viera. This doesn't mean, of course, that FFTA and FFXII are connected; given the nature of FFTA, actually, such a scenario is literally impossible.

Ultimately, at this point, it's difficult to determine what, if anything, connects FFT and FFXII. I really wouldn't be surprised if SE tried to link FFT and FFXII in some direct way, but (given how little information we really have about FFXII) it's presently impossible to determine this.

In essence, the name Ivalice doesn't necessarily link FFT and FFXII. However, since FFXII has not yet been released, and details regarding it are limited, there's little point in making any sort of definitive statement, either in favor or against the possibility of an actual link.

[?????]

[quote]

They can't be the same world. FFT's world is Ivalice, while FFVII takes place here, at least several thousand years in the future. And even if by some off chance it's not (the brochure-thing that says it's Gaia is wrong, because it contradicts in-game information) the worlds are too different anyway.

The Planet referenced in FFVII is Gaia. Beyond the brochure, which is an official SE document, one might note that the game includes a location called Gaea's Cliffs. Given that phonetics are all that's important in this case (similar situations would include Boko and Boco), it's understandable that this attests to the name of the planet.

More importantly, there's absolutely nothing in FFVII that suggests that the name of the Planet is not Gaia, nor that the game takes place in our future. I imagine you're thinking of the planets that appear during the animation for Safer Sephiroth's Super Nova spell, but really--that's entirely irrelevant. Besides being a matter of gameplay, the fact that the spell can occur multiple times (and destroy the same planets) suggests that it's somewhat illusory. Further, our cannot actually go supernova, as it lacks the necessary mass.

Ultimately, Earth and Gaia are incompatible. We don't have a Lifestream, and we don't have materia.

Thoroughly and completely incorrect. The Super Nova spell DOES matter. Even though it's almost certainly an illusion, the names of the planets are irrefutable in-universe proof. The B-49 jet visible in the Bone Village is not necessarily proof, but strong evidence. Also, the Gaea's Cliff thing really doesn't matter. By that logic, this planet's name is Rocky because of the Rocky Mountains. The brochure doesn't matter on that point, because it contradicts in-game information. This line in Sector 7 is etymological proof, as well:

"Oh Jesus!! What the hell's wrong tonight!!
I thought that long blackout was strange.
They say a Mako Reactor was destroyed above.
I was jes sittin' here drinkin', watchin' the news by myself.
'n' all of a sudden I get kicked outta the &*%$ store. What's up with that!?
I wasn't even done with my drink. I didn't even pay my bill..."

Plenty of places in the game use the term God damn, which in and of itself is not enough, as the people of Spira have gods that they worship, but this line specifically references a religion native to this planet. There's nothing in the game that suggests that the planet IS named Gaia, for that matter, and there is strong evidence, as I have outlined above, that proves that it takes place here. Of course, we haven't had Jenova come, or any ancient, itinerant race of aliens decide to colonize someplace way off to the north of here, which is the reason I say it's far into the future. Considering Jenova's power, it's entirely feasible that her coming messed up the tectonic plates.

I'm well aware that the sun doesn't have enough mass to go supernova. That requires a mass of about five times that of Sol, which suggests that the majority of the mass came from the energy ball that Sephiroth called into the solar system. Now, the mass had a diameter about half that of Jupiter, which is almost big enough to be a red dwarf star, but still nowhere close to that of our Sun. Obviously, four solar masses crammed into a diameter a miniscule fraction of the size equals black hole, which is irrefutable proof that it is an illusion, unless it was made of concentrated dark energy or something like that, which is in itself incredibly unlikely. Introducing enough dark matter into the center of the Sun would be enough to cause a real-life version of the illusion that Sephiroth created, but lots of luck getting it in there.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Note that's the English translation. I wouldn't use that as evidence until I see the Japanese, because it's VERY easy for translators to use some sort of phrasing that would make it more easily understandable to an English speaking nation, especially a heavily Christian one.

[?????]

Unless the characters look different in Japan, I'm betting that's what they said, or a close approximation thereof. Besides, it's not as if he was referring to it respectfully. Some parents would slap their kids for saying that.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I know that, but you're missing the point. Just because using the term "God" like that is offensive by American standards doesn't mean it is by Japanese standards. I would not be at all surprised if Cid's dialogue is much like that in Japanese but doesn't in any way, shape or form reference a Christian diety, but still portrays his character as a rather foul-mouthed one.

[?????]

The only thing I'm using it as evidence for is that FFVII takes place on our planet. Etymologically, it can take place nowhere else, unless you wish to postulate that there just so happens to be a planet out there that's orbiting a singular main-sequence yellow star (which is in itself fairly uncommon; many, many systems are binary or even trinary star systems) with eight others that are exactly like our companion worlds in every way and were even given the same names by a population who somehow evolved the exact same language with which to do so, has the same atmosphere and gravity as ours, evolved humans as its dominant life form, whose civilization uses the same mathematical notation as ours, AND who happen to have a well-known religion featuring a person named Jesus.

Or you can use Ockham's razor.