a religious dictatorship

[Cloud No.9]

starving is also the product of not working in a capitalist society and even more so in a laissez-faire one.

so where's the beef?

[Madame Adequate]

starving is also the product of not working in a capitalist society and even more so in a laissez-faire one.

so where's the beef?

In a capitalist society the able (And yes, sometimes the lucky) can earn their lifetime's keep in a few years. People start their own business, run it well, and retire at 40. I say good for them. How can I say this under Communism?

Edit: At any rate my point wasn't that capitalism didn't in a way necessitate this, it was that claims that Communism doesn't employ force are farcical.

[Cloud No.9]

all economic systems employ force in that manner. wanna eat? then work.

[Madame Adequate]

all economic systems employ force in that manner. wanna eat? then work.

I know that. Sweet Jesus. I've been saying exactly that. My point is that claims such as "Nothing happens,(No literally) they wont recieve nothing you dont work you wont recieve the benefits." are hardly examples of anything other than the application of force.

[Cloud No.9]

then to have any society that doesn't apply any such force you need to give everyone everything required. that's socialism..........

[Madame Adequate]

then to have any society that doesn't apply any such force you need to give everyone everything required. that's socialism..........

No, you need to have a system which gives everyone everything required without requiring anything in exchange. And I mean time and expertise, not money. If there was a system whereby everyone had everything they needed, and nobody anywhere had to work to produce any of it, then I would support that system fully. Socialism is not that system. Unless there's a legion of Swedish robots I don't know about.

[FFGuevara]

In a capitalist society the able (And yes, sometimes the lucky) can earn their lifetime's keep in a few years. People start their own business, run it well, and retire at 40. I say good for them. How can I say this under Communism?

Edit: At any rate my point wasn't that capitalism didn't in a way necessitate this, it was that claims that Communism doesn't employ force are farcical.

What's the possibility of that buisness ever succeding? Very low, Restuarants which have the lowest possibility to failer, Has a 75 percent of failing. And what do you get under Capitailism if you dont work? And just how much do workers get? They have to compensate with instant noodle's and fast food. And if they lose a job it's a pain to find one it would take weeks even months. While under communism there is always a job. If your dont work under Communism and starve to death it's because of your own stupidity and lazyness.

Exactly. You're not negating my point (US propoganda? WTF?).

Do you know how many times the US goverment has lied to you guys for? Come on "Terrorist who hate freedom" i cant believe anyone believes something so far fetched. Not to mention the incredible ammount of hate for Communism in the US which was because of propaganda.

They recieve nothing, and since you can't BUY anything, they startve to death.

That also happens under Capitailism but it's not because of that person falt. You boss decides your pay, if he lowers it you have to accept. If you quit you'll be spending weeks or even months looking for another job. In which untill then you recieve nothing.

[Madame Adequate]

In a capitalist society the able (And yes, sometimes the lucky) can earn their lifetime's keep in a few years. People start their own business, run it well, and retire at 40. I say good for them. How can I say this under Communism?

Edit: At any rate my point wasn't that capitalism didn't in a way necessitate this, it was that claims that Communism doesn't employ force are farcical.

What's the possibility of that buisness ever succeding? Very low, Restuarants which have the lowest possibility to failer, Has a 75 percent of failing. And what do you get under Capitailism if you dont work? And just how much do workers get? They have to compensate with instant noodle's and fast food. And if they lose a job it's a pain to find one it would take weeks even months. While under communism there is always a job. If your dont work under Communism and starve to death it's because of your own stupidity and lazyness.

Fair point on that one. However, the job I could get will be extremely limited: It will be either whatever everyone else doesn't want to do, or it will be a piece of sheer luck which frees a decent job up quickly.

Exactly. You're not negating my point (US propoganda? WTF?).

Do you know how many times the US goverment has lied to you guys for? Come on "Terrorist who hate freedom" i cant believe anyone believes something so far fetched. Not to mention the incredible ammount of hate for Communism in the US which was because of propaganda.

Actually, the Communism didn't need much propoganda. It is so antithetical to every single value America was founded on that it was pertty superfluous to tell people how evil it was.

Oh yeah, and Stalin killed tens of millions of people. That's always good for propoganda.

They recieve nothing, and since you can't BUY anything, they startve to death.

That also happens under Capitailism but it's not because of that person falt. You boss decides your pay, if he lowers it you have to accept. If you quit you'll be spending weeks or even months looking for another job. In which untill then you recieve nothing.

[/quote]

It's called saving up and investing wisely.

[FFGuevara]

Fair point on that one. However, the job I could get will be extremely limited: It will be either whatever everyone else doesn't want to do, or it will be a piece of sheer luck which frees a decent job up quickly.

You can choose you job even if they need people for other job's.


[quote]

Exactly. You're not negating my point (US propoganda? WTF?).

What point? The one which was cooked up by the united states?

Actually, the Communism didn't need much propoganda. It is so antithetical to every single value America was founded on that it was pertty superfluous to tell people how evil it was.

Yeah at a American point of view.

Oh yeah, and Stalin killed tens of millions of people. That's always good for propoganda.

So your goverment based it on Stalin and Stalinism that is propaganda? Stalin can burn. And he actually killed 1.4 million.

It's called saving up and investing wisely.

With what? They need to eat and live somewhere. At some point they'll run out of money if they dont work for long.

[Cloud No.9]

stalin killed approximately 50 million.

[Madame Adequate]

Fair point on that one. However, the job I could get will be extremely limited: It will be either whatever everyone else doesn't want to do, or it will be a piece of sheer luck which frees a decent job up quickly.

You can choose you job even if they need people for other job's.

You have no idea of how Communism would actually work in reality, do you? You do not own yourself. 'The People' own you..

Exactly. You're not negating my point (US propoganda? WTF?).

Do you know how many times the US goverment has lied to you guys for? Come on "Terrorist who hate freedom" i cant believe anyone believes something so far fetched. Not to mention the incredible ammount of hate for Communism in the US which was because of propaganda.

Actually, the Communism didn't need much propoganda. It is so antithetical to every single value America was founded on that it was pertty superfluous to tell people how evil it was.

Yeah at a American point of view.

No , that was what I just said. :rolleyes2 A view completely opposing everything you stand for is pretty close to evil.

Oh yeah, and Stalin killed tens of millions of people. That's always good for propoganda.

So your goverment based it on Stalin and Stalinism that is propaganda? Stalin can burn. And he actually killed 1.4 million.

In the history of Earth, only Mao and Genghis Khan have killed more. Thirty million, excluding WW2, is a generous estimate. It was probably far higher.

It's called saving up and investing wisely.

With what? They need to eat and live somewhere. At some point they'll run out of money if they dont work for long.[/QUOTE]

With the money they are getting WHEN THEY HAVE A JOB. My God, does it really escape people so much to not buy Black and White 2, and save the fifty bucks up in case something happens? And they use the money they save up to carry them over in case of redundancy. And that's why one has friends and family.

[Gilgamesh of Legends]

Easy Pickings for warmongering nations

[Teek]

Point taken. Basically, it seems to be what the Republican party was intended to be. (But isn't). Correct me if I'm wrong.

Sort of. It was the sort of society the Founding Fathers had sort of envisoned. Whatever the conservatives might claim here in America, they are not what the founders wanted when they came upon America. I mean, hell, most of them were athiests, anyway.

[TurkSlayer]

let's set up a scenario. in country x 100% of the population is christain. and beyond that they are all god fearing christians who are terrified of the thought of hell and are so scared that from an early age it is hammered in so hard not to sin they are very rarely tempted.

in country x there is no police or courts or laws or prisons. there is only the 10 commandments, the bible and people's own fear of breaking them that keeps the law intact.

is that a good thing?

A country ruled by paranioa? Huh, sounds like the U.S. right now. What danger level are we on again?