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Thread: Assisted suicide.

  1. #1
    Banished Ace Recognized Member Agent Proto's Avatar
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    Default Assisted suicide.

    Yahoo! News

    WASHINGTON - The Bush administration pressed the Supreme Court on Wednesday to block doctors from helping terminally ill patients end their lives, arguing that Oregon's law allowing physician-assisted suicide violates federal drug laws.
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    "The most natural reading of the (federal) Controlled Substances Act is ... this falls within the authority of the attorney general," said Solicitor General Paul Clement, arguing on behalf of the Bush administration.

    Oregon is the only state that lets dying patients obtain lethal doses of medication from their doctors, although other states may pass laws of their own if the high court rules against the federal government. Voters in Oregon have twice endorsed doctor-assisted suicide, but the Bush administration has aggressively challenged the state law.

    Justice
    Sandra Day O'Connor immediately challenged Clement, asking if federal drug laws also prevented doctors from participating in the execution of murderers.

    Justice
    Anthony Kennedy said he found it "odd" that the attorney general determined physician-assisted suicide to be an abuse of drug laws, when the state of Oregon strictly limited how the drugs could be administered and in what cases.

    "I don't think it's odd," Clement replied, noting that federal laws regulating drug use have been in place for more than 90 years.

    The case, the first major one to come before the new chief justice, John Roberts, will be heard by justices touched personally by illness. Three justices — O'Connor,
    Ruth Bader Ginsburg and
    John Paul Stevens — have had cancer, and a fourth —
    Stephen Breyer — has a spouse who counsels young cancer patients who are dying.

    Their longtime colleague, Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, who once wrote about the "earnest and profound debate" over doctor-assisted suicide, died a month ago after battling untreatable cancer for nearly a year.

    In 1997 the court found that the terminally ill have no constitutional right to doctor-assisted suicide. O'Connor provided a key fifth vote in that decision, which left room for state-by-state experimentation.

    O'Connor is retiring, and Bush on Monday named White House lawyer Harriet Miers to replace her. If Miers is confirmed before a ruling is announced, O'Connor's vote will not count. A 4-4 tie would probably require the court to schedule a new argument session.

    Dozens of spectators gathered outside the court before arguments began, waving signs supporting the Oregon law. "My Life, My Death, My Choice," read one sign. "Who should decide? Me" said another.

    "Oregon ought to be proud of having taken the first step," said one of the law's supporters, Rowland Cross, of Arlington, Va.

    The appeal is a turf battle of sorts, not a constitutional showdown. Former Attorney General
    John Ashcroft, a favorite among the president's base of religious conservatives, decided in 2001 to pursue doctors who help people die.

    Hastening someone's death is an improper use of medication and violates federal drug laws, Ashcroft reasoned, an opposite conclusion than the one reached by
    Janet Reno, the Clinton administration attorney general.

    Oregon filed a lawsuit to defend its law, which took effect in 1997 and has been used by 208 people.

    The Supreme Court will decide whether the federal government can trump the state.

    "It could be close," said Neil Siegel, a law professor at Duke University and former Supreme Court clerk. "It is a wrenching issue. It's one of the most difficult decisions any family needs to make. There's a lot of discomfort with having the government at any level get involved."

    Under Rehnquist's leadership the court had sought to embolden states to set their own rules. Roberts, who once served as a law clerk to Rehnquist and worked as a government lawyer, may be sympathetic to Bush administration arguments that the federal government needs ultimate authority to control drugs.

    In this case, that would be at odds with the concept, popular among conservatives, of limiting federal interference.

    Clement, the administration's Supreme Court lawyer, told justices in a filing that 49 states, centuries of tradition, and doctors groups agree that "assisted suicide is 'fundamentally incompatible' with a physician's role as healer."

    The administration lost at the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco, which said Ashcroft's "unilateral attempt to regulate general medical practices historically entrusted to state lawmakers interferes with the democratic debate about physician-assisted suicide."

    In Oregon, the first assisted-suicide law won narrow approval, just a 51 percent majority, in 1994. An effort to repeal it in 1997 was rejected by 60 percent of voters.

    "There is a real human need" for control over one's life, said cancer patient Charlene Andrews of Salem, Ore. "We are terminal and we know when we have a few weeks left. We know when we're unconscious. We know when we're at the end."

    The case before the Supreme Court is Gonzales v. Oregon, 04-623.
    Anyway, that's the news regarding assisted suicide, now I ask of you, the readers, to decide. Do you think that doctors should assist terminally ill patients to die when the patients ask to have their life be put at an end?

    Apparently, I have been declared banished.

  2. #2
    dizzy up the girl Recognized Member Rye's Avatar
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    If it's the patient's choice, and if they're terminally ill and it'll let them end their life earlier with less pain, yes. I don't think the doctors should ever recommend it, but if the patient says that they want it done and they're terminally ill (not if someone just comes in and says "Hey, my girlfriend dumped me, now I want assisted suicide.") let it be done.

    I could see why a doctor would not want to do it though.


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    most doctors and nurses do it anyway. difference is you can't ask for it. but when you are in enough pain theywill just keep upping the morhpine.

    my parents are both nurses and it is common practice and pretty much normal and allowed in the right circumstances.

    now to do it prematurely....... raises all sorts of questions. my mother knows a quadraplegic that has a few times asked to die. but she won't do it. he's just depressed like anyone would be if you were just a head. and it's a spur of the moment thing.

    and people could be coerced into doing it. or the doctor might just do it to get a bit of peace from grumpy old folk.

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    Posts Occur in Real Time edczxcvbnm's Avatar
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    I don't see anything wrong with it as it is the choice of both parties. Just like abortion, I am against it but I will not stop other who don't share my beliefs.

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    What does it matter? As the Terry Schiavo case showed us, if they aren't allowed to poison the terminally ill, they'll just starve/dehydrate them to death instead.
    My friend Delzethin is currently running a GoFundMe account to pay for some extended medical troubles he's had. He's had chronic issues and lifetime troubles that have really crippled his career opportunities, and he's trying to get enough funding to get back to a stable medical situation. If you like his content, please support his GoFundMe, or even just contribute to his Patreon.

    He can really use a hand with this, and any support you can offer is appreciated.

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    Posts Occur in Real Time edczxcvbnm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyblade
    What does it matter? As the Terry Schiavo case showed us, if they aren't allowed to poison the terminally ill, they'll just starve/dehydrate them to death instead.
    What the smurf are babbling about? She didn't kill herself and neither did the doctors. On top of that the doctors only give patients the drugs. They wouldn't administor them to the person because that wouldn't be assisted suicide but just plain ol' killing peeps.

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    <3 Recognized Member Jess's Avatar
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    if i was terminally ill, and in a hell of a lot of pain with no chance of recovery. i would ask for them to put me out of my misery, and I would be pretty pissed if they didn't do as I requested.
    so yes like Rye said, if its the patients choice, and if they are terminally ill.

  8. #8

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    no real side to this one...but i think that if there is no hope then their final wishes should be fullfilled

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    Banned Destai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laugh at face of Danger
    no real side to this one...but i think that if there is no hope then their final wishes should be fullfilled
    pretty much ditto.

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    Destroyer of Worlds DarkLadyNyara's Avatar
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    I say your life is your own. If someone has no chance of recovery, and wants to die with dignity, let them.

  11. #11

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    I do believe that assited sucide is not a great course of action, but if the person wants to die, he should be allowed....

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLadyNyara
    I say your life is your own. If someone has no chance of recovery, and wants to die with dignity, let them.

  13. #13

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    I personally am against this as it is prone for abuse. Assisted Suicide is a nice wrapping name, but really what it is pertains more to murder. If I am standing in the street, and I tell someone to shoot me, they will get tried for murder.

    Doctors are healers, not killers. I have no real opinion as far as people whom are completley vegtabled out, but for others whom have used this practice in the past to escape pain, declining health, and to save 'Dignity' are just backing out, running away, and loosing more dignity in this process.

    Yes, a persons life is thier own, but in a lot of these cases, people have been under the influence of medications, and are usually very much out of thier right mind. A few of Dr. Cavorkian's (positive this is mispelled) cases, the families of those whom were assisted in their suicides were supposedly coaxed, or convinced into doing it. sick.

    Suicide is illeagal, so why make it legal as long as you have someone watch? AS I said earlier, I see it as "Mercy" only when the person is in such a declined state, and have no hope for revival. Like I said, I just see it being misused in so many cases as the "Pulling of the plug" has seemed to lead on.


    Bipper

  14. #14
    Destroyer of Worlds DarkLadyNyara's Avatar
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    I personally am against this as it is prone for abuse. Assisted Suicide is a nice wrapping name, but really what it is pertains more to murder. If I am standing in the street, and I tell someone to shoot me, they will get tried for murder.

    Doctors are healers, not killers. I have no real opinion as far as people whom are completley vegtabled out, but for others whom have used this practice in the past to escape pain, declining health, and to save 'Dignity' are just backing out, running away, and loosing more dignity in this process.

    Yes, a persons life is thier own, but in a lot of these cases, people have been under the influence of medications, and are usually very much out of thier right mind. A few of Dr. Cavorkian's (positive this is mispelled) cases, the families of those whom were assisted in their suicides were supposedly coaxed, or convinced into doing it. sick.

    Suicide is illeagal, so why make it legal as long as you have someone watch? AS I said earlier, I see it as "Mercy" only when the person is in such a declined state, and have no hope for revival. Like I said, I just see it being misused in so many cases as the "Pulling of the plug" has seemed to lead on.


    Bipper
    Interestingly enough, one state, (I think Ohio), does allow assisted suicide. Only about thirty people a year choose it, and most of them are educated and more affluent. The state also has high quality end of life care for those who choose to die naturaly. It's usually for things that can't be treated or effectivly managed. As far as Kevorkian goes, he was operating without any oversight. In a hospital setting, there are ways of making sure that abuses are kept to a minimum.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by bipper
    I personally am against this as it is prone for abuse. Assisted Suicide is a nice wrapping name, but really what it is pertains more to murder. If I am standing in the street, and I tell someone to shoot me, they will get tried for murder.

    Doctors are healers, not killers. I have no real opinion as far as people whom are completley vegtabled out, but for others whom have used this practice in the past to escape pain, declining health, and to save 'Dignity' are just backing out, running away, and loosing more dignity in this process.

    Yes, a persons life is thier own, but in a lot of these cases, people have been under the influence of medications, and are usually very much out of thier right mind. A few of Dr. Cavorkian's (positive this is mispelled) cases, the families of those whom were assisted in their suicides were supposedly coaxed, or convinced into doing it. sick.

    Suicide is illeagal, so why make it legal as long as you have someone watch? AS I said earlier, I see it as "Mercy" only when the person is in such a declined state, and have no hope for revival. Like I said, I just see it being misused in so many cases as the "Pulling of the plug" has seemed to lead on.


    Bipper
    I agree. But the problem is that we aren't particularly good at reliving pain and so on in the dying. Not gonna get much better if they keep killing patients.

    And in the USA, we have the problem of insurance companies deciding not to pay for pain meds to tip the scales in favor of death. The scenario would be something like this: Person is termallly ill. They'll never get better, and the medicines that save the patient's life cost more than the meds that would kill them. So the Insurance Co. decides that it will not pay for pain meds (though it might pay for the suicide. The person probably can't afford to buy pain meds, so sooner or later they run out of money and medicine. And so after however long they can stand the pain without meds, they tough it out. But sooner or later they'll ask to die.

    Or another problem -- heirs wanting grandma's money. They could convince a person that their treatment is causing them a lot of financial trouble, by ie talking about the bills in front of her, and wondering in front of her how they'll pay for her medical bill and so on, some will be pressured to die.

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