Catholics in Great Britain have the right idea.

[Agent Proto]

Source: Times Online

Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.

The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.

The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US.

Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”.

The document shows how far the Catholic Church has come since the 17th century, when Galileo was condemned as a heretic for flouting a near-universal belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible by advocating the Copernican view of the solar system. Only a century ago, Pope Pius X condemned Modernist Catholic scholars who adapted historical-critical methods of analysing ancient literature to the Bible.

In the document, the bishops acknowledge their debt to biblical scholars. They say the Bible must be approached in the knowledge that it is “God’s word expressed in human language” and that proper acknowledgement should be given both to the word of God and its human dimensions.

They say the Church must offer the gospel in ways “appropriate to changing times, intelligible and attractive to our contemporaries”.

The Bible is true in passages relating to human salvation, they say, but continue: “We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in other, secular matters.”

They go on to condemn fundamentalism for its “intransigent intolerance” and to warn of “significant dangers” involved in a fundamentalist approach.

“Such an approach is dangerous, for example, when people of one nation or group see in the Bible a mandate for their own superiority, and even consider themselves permitted by the Bible to use violence against others.”

Of the notorious anti-Jewish curse in Matthew 27:25, “His blood be on us and on our children”, a passage used to justify centuries of anti-Semitism, the bishops say these and other words must never be used again as a pretext to treat Jewish people with contempt. Describing this passage as an example of dramatic exaggeration, the bishops say they have had “tragic consequences” in encouraging hatred and persecution. “The attitudes and language of first-century quarrels between Jews and Jewish Christians should never again be emulated in relations between Jews and Christians.”

As examples of passages not to be taken literally, the bishops cite the early chapters of Genesis, comparing them with early creation legends from other cultures, especially from the ancient East. The bishops say it is clear that the primary purpose of these chapters was to provide religious teaching and that they could not be described as historical writing.

Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast of Christ the Lamb.

The bishops say: “Such symbolic language must be respected for what it is, and is not to be interpreted literally. We should not expect to discover in this book details about the end of the world, about how many will be saved and about when the end will come.”

In their foreword to the teaching document, the two most senior Catholics of the land, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, Archbishop of Westminster, and Cardinal Keith O’Brien, Archbishop of St Andrew’s and Edinburgh, explain its context.

They say people today are searching for what is worthwhile, what has real value, what can be trusted and what is really true.

The new teaching has been issued as part of the 40th anniversary celebrations of Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council document explaining the place of Scripture in revelation. In the past 40 years, Catholics have learnt more than ever before to cherish the Bible. “We have rediscovered the Bible as a precious treasure, both ancient and ever new.”

A Christian charity is sending a film about the Christmas story to every primary school in Britain after hearing of a young boy who asked his teacher why Mary and Joseph had named their baby after a swear word. The Breakout Trust raised £200,000 to make the 30-minute animated film, It’s a Boy. Steve Legg, head of the charity, said: “There are over 12 million children in the UK and only 756,000 of them go to church regularly.

That leaves a staggering number who are probably not receiving basic Christian teaching.”

BELIEVE IT OR NOT

UNTRUE

Genesis ii, 21-22

So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man

Genesis iii, 16

God said to the woman [after she was beguiled by the serpent]: “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

Matthew xxvii, 25

The words of the crowd: “His blood be on us and on our children.”

Revelation xix,20

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with brimstone.”

TRUE

Exodus iii, 14

God reveals himself to Moses as: “I am who I am.”

Leviticus xxvi,12

“I will be your God, and you shall be my people.”

Exodus xx,1-17

The Ten Commandments

Matthew v,7

The Sermon on the Mount

Mark viii,29

Peter declares Jesus to be the Christ

Luke i

The Virgin Birth

John xx,28

Proof of bodily resurrection

Well, I have to say that the morons in America have it all wrong then about "Intelligent Design." Personally, I don't think it's all accurate and stuff, but in a sense, I believe that God may have started it all, then "Evolution" went on to take its course of action, rather than having everything be "created" right away. With that in mind, if ID is true, than man and dinosaur would have to co-exist at the same time, and that's smurfing stupid.

[DocFrance]

Finally, somebody gets the idea to seperate the mythos and the ethos of Christianity.

[nik0tine]

Finally. I've been saying this for years.

[Destai]

Finally. I've been saying this for years.

Yes most people including the catholic church knew the bible shouldnt be taken literally. Theyre just slow to admit it as they were with Galilleo.

A Christian charity is sending a film about the Christmas story to every primary school in Britain after hearing of a young boy who asked his teacher why Mary and Joseph had named their baby after a swear word.

excellent.

[Shlup]

That's like... logical. How weird.

[Yamaneko]

Irony: The Catholic church becoming more progressive than Protestant denominations.

[Shlup]

You should submit that to dictionary.com.

[edczxcvbnm]

For a great many years the Catholic Church has acknowledged evolution. Be it still acknowledges creationism. Both theories can co-exist and they do in the Catholic Church.

Also anyone who thought Genisis was real needs their head examined and a history book thrown at their face.

[bipper]

Ok, this really pisses me off. I do belive that Genesis, Exidos, and Leviticus are all very acurate. The only misconceptions would be from translation. While i know they are not denying the Bible's truths as the title ("Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible") implies. (Some more crap journalism) These 'untrue' statments dirived from Genesis, are simply implied to be more metephorical. Duh. This is to be common knowlage among Christians. The bible was written for (more) primative people, an uses metephors all the time. This simply PROVES the bibles truths when you think or it.

The Old Testament was written between approximately 1450 BC and 430 BC; Of course people did not have a concept of space, and the world was still flat. The bible says differently, in Job 26:7 - He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.

There are *TONS* of verses like this that prove scientific truths that we know today, that people back then did not have near 430 BC. This suggests that some metephorical words would indeed be used to teach.

This, is just a bad move by the Catholic Church here. To come out and say that not everything in the bible is true. To say it like that is just REALLY stupid. It sounds like another proficy is comming truer right there. I know ther are so many that hate Christianity, just for being Christianity, and we seem to have a great deal of "Intellectual enemies" That it seems claiming that "GOD" and "Science" cannot co-exist. These opposers will obviously put a great deal of spin on thise misconstrued words to discredit christianity all together.

This, and many other reasons, fuel my dislike for the catholic church.

[edit] Of dinosours:

if ID is true, than man and dinosaur would have to co-exist at the same time, and that's smurfing stupid

If you have ever read the bible, and studied it closley, you will notice that Dinosours are mentioned by description, and given names. To the primatives, animals that no longer existed were described. These three are the Hebrew names: tanniyn, b@hemowth (closest character on teh keyboard), and livyathan.

The spellings of these words work also as Bahemoth, levyathan, and tanniyn, as tranlation stands. Bahemoth and Levyathatn are specific dinosours whom both have very descriptive (..ugh) descritions in the bible. The word tanniyn, as I take it, is the general word for Dinosour.

Job 41:18-21 specifically states that the levyathan breaths fire... hilarious. This could be looked at metephorically, or could be taken seriously. But its a good reference area to find the levyathan being spoken about. Its also funny, because people say that dinosours never lived at the same time as man, but they do, and there are still some dinosour fish in the ocean. On such fish was caught off the coast of madagascar, and found again off the coast of India. I believe that Dinosours and humans may have coexisted, but that is another debate.

Nobody has ever proven that the Bible contains any inaccurately recorded information.

Irony: The Catholic church becoming more progressive than Protestant denominations.

I would not call this progressive, but more counter-prodcutive. They are changing the book that runs thier religon, and that they nearly use as a religous referance (Catholics are really far from the teachings) and tailoring it to see fit as they want. Sure the Bible is metephorical, but it is not worded that loosley, that it can be intupetied as far off base, as I see them going here.

Bipper

[DarkLadyNyara]

Frankly, I've never understood the intellegent design debate. One woman wrote a letter that said "The God I worship is intellegent and powerful enough to create an evolving universe." Can,t argue that.

[Traitorfish]

Yeah, you can't just say 'I believe, therefore true'.

If you have ever read the bible, and studied it closley, you will notice that Dinosours are mentioned by description, and given names. To the primatives, animals that no longer existed were described. These three are the Hebrew names: tanniyn, b@hemowth (closest character on teh keyboard), and livyathan.
The spellings of these words work also as Bahemoth, levyathan, and tanniyn, as tranlation stands. Bahemoth and Levyathatn are specific dinosours whom both have very descriptive (..ugh) descritions in the bible. The word tanniyn, as I take it, is the general word for Dinosour.

That means nothing. The Aztecs beleived in 'thunder lizards', the Chinese beleived in dragons, the Greeks in hydra, cypclopse, gorgons, chimera and pegasi. Means nothing.
Neoloithc goat hers, the original authors of the bible, were not exactl paleontological experts.

Job 41:18-21 specifically states that the levyathan breaths fire... hilarious. This could be looked at metephorically, or could be taken seriously. But its a good reference area to find the levyathan being spoken about. Its also funny, because people say that dinosours never lived at the same time as man, but they do, and there are still some dinosour fish in the ocean. On such fish was caught off the coast of madagascar, and found again off the coast of India. I believe that Dinosours and humans may have coexisted, but that is another debate.

Actually, there is no dinosaur fish. That was coelacanth, fish not a dinosaur. The only, even vauge connection it had to dinos was that it existed at the same time as they did, and was thought to be extinct. But, some species of sharks and crocs existed at the same time as dionsaurs, and they aren't dinosaurs.
And it isn't another debate, it's an episode of Flintstones. it has been proven utterly and conclusively, and without possible argument, that dinosaurd pre-date humans by millions of years (the current guess is 65 million, as you know).

Nobody has ever proven that the Bible contains any inaccurately recorded information.

Yes, they have. FOr example, the existance of dinosaurs, homo neanderthalis, homo erectus, homo habilis, any pre-homo human, mammoths, giant sloths, anything like that.

[lordblazer]

Frankly, I've never understood the intellegent design debate. One woman wrote a letter that said "The God I worship is intellegent and powerful enough to create an evolving universe." Can,t argue that.

The thing aobut these debates and the reason I stay out of them



Is because Evolutionist have a problem with creationist and thinkt hey are weird udmband wrong and they want evolution to be alone, yet evolution like creationism. LAcks the evidence it needs.

Now Creationism they hate evolutiuoinist also, and they don't want to use there head.

Now actually both groups and arguements are just ridiculious and make no sense when they are alone, but make them coexist and they will actually make more sense.

Thats my opinion and te reasonwhy I stay out of the debates. Mainly because people split up into Partisan Groups and leave no room for Moderation.

Yeah, you can't just say 'I believe, therefore true'.


That means nothing. The Aztecs beleived in 'thunder lizards', the Chinese beleived in dragons, the Greeks in hydra, cypclopse, gorgons, chimera and pegasi. Means nothing.
Neoloithc goat hers, the original authors of the bible, were not exactl paleontological experts.


Actually, there is no dinosaur fish. That was coelacanth, fish not a dinosaur. The only, even vauge connection it had to dinos was that it existed at the same time as they did, and was thought to be extinct. But, some species of sharks and crocs existed at the same time as dionsaurs, and they aren't dinosaurs.
And it isn't another debate, it's an episode of Flintstones. it has been proven utterly and conclusively, and without possible argument, that dinosaurd pre-date humans by millions of years (the current guess is 65 million, as you know).


Yes, they have. FOr example, the existance of dinosaurs, homo neanderthalis, homo erectus, homo habilis, any pre-homo human, mammoths, giant sloths, anything like that.

Also how people read Genisis.
they think its dumbt hat the earth was created in 7 days,

Well it is dumb. If you read that literally.

1 day to god may be a thousand hell even a few billion or million years.

Maybe aobut a few billion years equals a day to God.

Thats what I got out of it anyway.

Also The fact that if this is the case then God lives out side of our plan of existence(dimension.).

Anyway you can't discredit Bipper completely.



This is the reason why I can't debate this crap.

I get split into two.
I wanna support one but hte other doesnt and then the group i support say i can't support them and oyu know


Those idiots who say I'm not a christain because I'm a liberal and that I'm not a christain because I like the theory of evolution along with the theory of creation.

Then those evolutionist call me a stupid bible thumper and if they don't say it I get the vibe from reading there post.

Anyway aobut the aztec,greek,chineese. Belief in these creatures sucha s dragons and the such.

WEll The hwole belief of dragons by both europeans and asians came from the fact that. They did come across dinosaur fossils? They did so. But they weren';t Paleontologist experts so they thought these creatures existed about a hundred or so years ago. Not millions of years ago. Nothing wrong with modern society coming to the conclusion and striking this down and coming up with valid evidence, but now things have gotten ridiculious.

Extreme christains say the bibile is literally it was liteerally 7 days. Theny ou have those extreme let me jsut say atheist. Who say its stupid that it was 7 days and it wasn't days. but instead of trying to reenforce the bible and making it more valid. They write the hwole thing off as invalid and it isn' truea nd yes they mainly attack christainity.

Why do we attack christainity is this some sort of fad. Crap go attack Buddhism.

[Captain Maxx Power]

Every other Christian denomination would argue that this is just another step along Catholicism's road to heresy. They already worship false idols, practice out-dated beliefs etc. This is just one more to chalk up. I doubt this will filter through to other Christian communities.

[Madame Adequate]

Is because Evolutionist have a problem with creationist and thinkt hey are weird udmband wrong and they want evolution to be alone, yet evolution like creationism. LAcks the evidence it needs.

No it doesn't. Evolutionism stands up perfectly well alone - as does Creationism. However, we have evidence of evolution, even if there are missing links, and there are some things which are just smurfing weird (Platypus, anyone?). Evolution is also logically consistent. In short: Mutations occur. Some mutations are beneficial. These beneficial mutations allow that individual to do better than its counterparts, and so over time the descendants of that mutant become the dominant form of the species. Enough mutations and you have a new species.

It is of course possible to suggest that God created life originally, as well as set in motion evolution, or even that He's in the business of directing it.

Now actually both groups and arguements are just ridiculious and make no sense when they are alone, but make them coexist and they will actually make more sense.

I find most evolutionary theory to be very sensible and consistent. If it wasn't for evidence to the contrary, the idea of spontaneous intelligent design (Ie creating everything fully-formed.) would be a perfectly valid supposition.

Also how people read Genisis.
they think its dumbt hat the earth was created in 7 days,

Well it is dumb. If you read that literally.

1 day to god may be a thousand hell even a few billion or million years.

Then why say 'day'? A 'day' exists only a concept of a single rotation on a planet's axis. Thus, if God created the Earth in 7 Jovian days, that's only going to be something like 50 hours. 7 Venusunian days, on the other hand, would have taken years to pass. Keeping in mind that God's a pretty smart fellow (Being, you know, omnipotent and the source of the entire universe and all.), I doubt he'd leave this room for ambiguity. If he wrote the Bible. Which he didn't. Rendering any and all 'evidence' it gives us entirely moot.

Why do we attack christainity is this some sort of fad. Crap go attack Buddhism.

I often attack Buddhism. I find the idea of denying pretty much everything about us which makes us Human to be ridiculous; almost a defilement of whatever created us and whatever we are. However, Christianity is the religion with real power in the English-speaking nations of the world. We're more likely to hear a Christian talking about an issue than a Hindu. There's also quite a lot of Christians in America and Europe; they're obvious targets and their philosophy is known to pretty much every layperson there is (Whether accurately known or not is another matter, but given the many different denominations learning them all is difficult anyway.).