the legitimacy of 9-11

[Teek]

When those pictures were taken, we hadn't bombed Japan, yet. That was at V-Day, which happened to be about six months previous.

SRY U LOSE

[Shadow Nexus]

Oh, I love that picture of the couple. The 40s were so cool...in a aesthetical sense, of course. Long live Humphrey Bogart.

Ahem...

Funny, becuase most Americans don't feel threatened whatsoever. OK, you're right. They got us that one time. Then we went on full attack. If there is one thing I am proud of being an American it's that I won't sit idly by and fear an unknown evil as if the universe is out to get us. I was willing to fight. We, the collection of individuals known as the American people, are ready to fight.

Ahem...are you sure they don't feel threatened? Because as far as I know, people have gotten paranoid since 9-11. How many times have I heard from people in the States things such as "I am for the PATRIOT act, I believe I can give up some liberties to defend my life". That is not feeling threatened? When I was in New York, in the subways there were warning for us to "report any suspicious activity". And I think I do not need to insult your intelligence bombing you with examples, because you, living as you live in the United States, probably have more examples of citizen paranoia than me.

[Cloud No.9]

hate to tell you hachifusa that the date the sailor photo was taken in 14 august 1945.

the story of the couple can be found here.

http://www.nwc.navy.mil/museum/VJDaySailor/

be very sure of what you say before you tell me i lose.

[DocFrance]

Right, because you know they're only kissing because America dropped some nukes on Japan. Not because this sailor hasn't seen this girl in several months. No, not at all. We were just happy to have killed some innocent civillians back then. Yep.

[Cloud No.9]

actually the story goes that he had went around kissing all the girls in the street. there was nothing in particular about this girl. the photographer Alfred Eisenstaedt says

"running along the street grabbing any and every girl in sight", he later explained. "Whether she was a grandmother, stout, thin, old, didn't make any difference. I was running ahead of him with my Leica looking back over my shoulder... Then suddenly, in a flash, I saw something white being grabbed. I turned around and clicked the moment the sailor kissed the nurse." Eisenstadt was very gratified and pleased with this enduring image, saying: "People tell me that when I am in heaven they will remember this picture."

and he wasn't an on duty sailor either. he was in new york. on duty sailors would have been still out in the pacific.

so there we have a man being hysterically happy after his country just wiped out two cities.

[DocFrance]

so there we have a man being hysterically happy after his country just wiped out two cities.

Edited to emphasize singularity.

[edczxcvbnm]

Maybe that guy's order to go out to the pacific had been canceled due to the bombs being dropped and then end of the war soon coming. I would have been pretty insanly happy that I don't have to go back out to war. For all we know he just got done in the Atlantic.

[Cloud No.9]

well since he was a line of men behind him and the other pictures show a whole sea of folk. and there are many more besides.

but the point is this. that is okay to celebrate after military victories. like the bombs. or 9-11 if that's your view.

[DocFrance]

There's also a pretty solid possibility that these people were celebrating the end of the war - not the bombings, necessarily. I know I'd be pretty excited if a long, bloody war just ended. I'm pretty sure these people were thinking "Thank God I don't have to go fight and die in the war now!" rather than "smurf yeah! We just killed a load of dirty japs! Yee-haw!"

Also, the pictures were taken on VJ-Day, which was several days after the bombings. If these people were celebrating on the day we dropped the bomb, you might have a point.

[Cloud No.9]

of course they were celebrating the end of the war.

the end of the war was solely brought around by the nuking of two cities.

but they were not celebrating that.

so lets bring this around again.

the people who celebrated on 9-11. were celebrating for the same reason as that man. it was either the beginning or end of a war. depending on how optimistic you were. they had just their pearl harbour. a strategically perfect attack (a statistical failure but that's not for now). now whether you viewed it as an end of beginning depended on how you felt at the time.

many would have seen it as a knockout blow. if the attack had been completed (there were more planes) and if it had been statistically perfect (it only killed something like 95% of potential victims) then by all means it could have been the end. if al qaeda had managed to wipe out 200,000 people that day which was a possibility then who knows how we may have reacted. certainly differently.

and if you view it as a start of a war. celebrating the start of a war is not unheard of. after the declaration of the first world war there are stories of huge queues for the sign up.

i think it's just about time we put 9-11 and all images in relation in context of history.

[edczxcvbnm]

You say they were celebrating the end of the war. They were not jumping for joy that we killed people. We were jumping for joy because of the relief that it is now over. Everyone can come back home and no one else has to die.

Compare that with 9/11/2001 where they were jumping for joy that they killed people with the expectations to kill more.

Quite different on every level. Stop being so delusional and prejudice against the USA.

[DocFrance]

Can I have your children, ed?

[edczxcvbnm]

Yes you can

[DarkLadyNyara]

9-11 was just a continuation of a war. and it's a war that was killing people and maybe if the us had pulled out of suadi and other countries then maybe there would have been less blood.

At risk of pointing out the obvious, we are not at war with Saudi. They want us there.

Ahem...are you sure they don't feel threatened? Because as far as I know, people have gotten paranoid since 9-11. How many times have I heard from people in the States things such as "I am for the PATRIOT act, I believe I can give up some liberties to defend my life". That is not feeling threatened?

Unfortunatly, people do overreact.

You say they were celebrating the end of the war. They were not jumping for joy that we killed people. We were jumping for joy because of the relief that it is now over. Everyone can come back home and no one else has to die.

Exactly. The bombs were seen as the only way to end the war without sending more Americans to their deaths. I for one would have been dancing with them at the end of a brutal war. (well, had I been alive at the time. )

[Teek]

Sorry, Cloud. I admit I was totally drunk when I made that last post.

But, it's true that some Americans are quite paranoid, especially those that celebrate one of the most destructive documents ever made in the United States (ironically called the "Patriot" act) but the grand majority of us aren't towering in fear because of the world events, no.

And I don't think Cloud is implying that we celebrated the deaths of the Japanese, but rather that the majority of us didn't see it as major a tragedy as it was. I am telling you this once more, Cloud - most of us did not enjoy it. Like I said, my grandmother cried. My grandfather said that when he saw the cities (they didn't know about radiation control, then) right after the destruction it was one of the most horrifying views in his life. The people were happy because the long, bloody war was finally over, and peace and freedom could reign again (at least until the conservatives championed for McCarthy and the liberals started on their new projects like "enviornmentalism" and hippie-dom).