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Thread: African immigration

  1. #1
    Unpostmodernizeable Shadow Nexus's Avatar
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    Default African immigration

    Now, someone has to do a topic about the crap going on in Spain too.

    For photographs and so on, wich I believe express very well the situation, click here and here.


    OK, basically, the story is as follows:



    This is the fence of Melilla. There is a very similar one in Ceuta. This fences, looking more like those of a prision than like those of a city, separate Morroco from this two cities, which are Spanish. Basically these and the Canary islands are the only remaining lands from the time Spain was an empire. Now, since Spain has moved from being a thrild world country to actually being a relatively wealthy country in the EU, immigration obviously attempts to enter the country, and since we are the closest to Africa, we are also a favourite country for those who attempt to flee poverty (what they don't know is that their Spanish paradise is actually no rose garden).



    This is the fence of Ceuta, photograph taken a week ago. As you may know, Ceuta and Melilla have been recently invaded by an imprecedented wave of sub-Sahara immigrants. I don't remember the number of people, but it was around 800 I believe, wich of course is an obscene ammount, specially if we take into account the size of the two cities, which could barely be considered such, as they are closer to towns. Under this crisis, the Spanish goverment has reinforced security by bringing the military to the cities. This also means men who attempt to enter the cities are bound to get a nice beating, in the tradition of our wonderful Guardia Civil, serve, mistreat and protect.

    Some have died while attempting to climb the fence, many of them by gun shots. Because the police used real bullets. What police, the one in Morrocco or the one in Spain? Morrocco blames Spain, Spain blames Morrocco. Given past experiences, I am more inclined to believe the shooting was done by Morrocco cops. However, negotitation has happened between the two countries, in an attempt to bring back the immigrants to their countires.



    This is quite a terrible image. This are some of the immigrants, handcuffed and in buses. These buses are from Morrocco, and according to several NGOs, their destination is uncertain, yet given the fact some of this groups are found abandoned in the middle of the Sahara, we can guess what the Morrocco goverment is doing. Cattle, the value of the lifes of this people isn't above cattle. It chills me, and it has rised quite a scandal, right now the Morrocco goverment is attempting to clean it's image by sending them back to their countries in planes.

    So here is the whole discussion I want to bring up. Even though I would like to pull flowers from a balcony and put them in my head, and then talk about how nice inmigration is, truth is, well, I can't. I attempt to be objective, and even though inmigration has many benefits, it also has important drawbacks. A rise in population in Spain is something positive, given the fact we need more young people working in order to mantain the current state. Inmigrants are also willing to take jobs the Spanish are not willing to do, such as picking up strawberries under the sun. As long as the contract is legal and their wages are acceptable, everything seems more or less correct (I still think it's a shame their oportunities are so limited). The drawbacks are obvious. Even though most of the people who come here are good folk, sometimes they are forced to end up with a criminal life, given the fact...well, as I said, Spain is not a rose garden, and things aren't as easy as they think they are. As for women, I only need to say Spain is the country in Europe with more prostitution, something that would not bother me if I didn't know most prostitutes aren't doing it for their own will, but forced by some mafioso bastard. Then there's the raise of racism, although I prefer to call it aporofobia, because I believe what the chauvinist burgeoise Spanish fear is the poor, not the foreginers.

    OK, so here come the problems. Inmigration has it's drawbacks, one cannot expect Spain or any country to open frontiers: it would be nice, but it's not as easy as that. Yet...look at how we are treating them! How horrible is that we are doing? They are people, not smurfing merchandising. You cannot just reject human beings as if wiping out the crap of your ass with toilet paper. So then, what's the correct positioning?

  2. #2

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    I see it as a problem of numbers.

    The Spanish have to deal with people who try to come in the country illegally (although I think *rubber* bullets would be far better). It's a simple question of numbers. There are only so many people who can comfortably in a given land mass, because eventually your resuources will be streached too thin. You won't be able to grow the economy enough to accomadate all of the people. You won't have enough land to provide decent housing. Your schools will be overcrowded. You'll have a problem when a large percentage of the population couldn't understand Spanish.

    I have no problem with legal immigration, because it's controlled so that the country isn't overcrowded with immigrants and you can check for a criminal record.

    And it isn't a racial thing either. I like oompa-loompas. I hope that we can have a lot more oompa-loompas in the country. However, no nation can support an infinate number of oompa-loompas.

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    Posts Occur in Real Time edczxcvbnm's Avatar
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    They should be wiped out of the country like the crap from your ass. If the country needs them so much then the country should look to have them move in and given work permits and be legal. If they are illegal then treat them like any criminal. The broke the law of that particular land. Deport their asses back to the stone age.

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    Nulli Secundus Primus Inter Pares's Avatar
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    I live in Spain several months a year, and I do see there being a problem with the current levels of immigration. Crime is increasing and the people are starting to get less and less friendly, mass immigration of poor, desperate people leads to social and economic problems.

    There is however a great deal of Racism within the Spanish Authorities, with road blocks set up that only stop morrocans. Prevent immigration until a suitable system can be set up, however this is also one of the problems with Africa, the able bodied leave totally crippling the economies there.
    :joey:

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    Proudly Loathsome ;) DMKA's Avatar
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    That's just sad and unsettling...I really have no opinion other than that because I think the whole idea of immigration being legal/illegal is annoying.
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    Banned Hawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
    They should be wiped out of the country like the crap from your ass. If the country needs them so much then the country should look to have them move in and given work permits and be legal. If they are illegal then treat them like any criminal. The broke the law of that particular land. Deport their asses back to the stone age.
    I generally agree with this statement, but you look like a hypocrite when you have a bunch of illegal mexicans serving your fast food everyday too.

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    Proudly Loathsome ;) DMKA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye
    I generally agree with this statement, but you look like a hypocrite when you have a bunch of illegal mexicans serving your fast food everyday too.
    Who ever said that?
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    Posts Occur in Real Time edczxcvbnm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye
    Quote Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
    They should be wiped out of the country like the crap from your ass. If the country needs them so much then the country should look to have them move in and given work permits and be legal. If they are illegal then treat them like any criminal. The broke the law of that particular land. Deport their asses back to the stone age.
    I generally agree with this statement, but you look like a hypocrite when you have a bunch of illegal mexicans serving your fast food everyday too.
    And I wish our government would set up a better system to have them legally come over here or deport their asses so far into mexico it would take them months to come back. Just because it happens to happen here doesn't mean I agree with it. If I was a law maker then I would be hypocritical but since I am not and thus can't really bring up laws it up to the politians and this is far from the top of their list.

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    Banned Hawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye
    Quote Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
    They should be wiped out of the country like the crap from your ass. If the country needs them so much then the country should look to have them move in and given work permits and be legal. If they are illegal then treat them like any criminal. The broke the law of that particular land. Deport their asses back to the stone age.
    I generally agree with this statement, but you look like a hypocrite when you have a bunch of illegal mexicans serving your fast food everyday too.
    And I wish our government would set up a better system to have them legally come over here or deport their asses so far into mexico it would take them months to come back. Just because it happens to happen here doesn't mean I agree with it. If I was a law maker then I would be hypocritical but since I am not and thus can't really bring up laws it up to the politians and this is far from the top of their list.
    Ay, no offence intended, I wasnt generally intended for "you" to actually be, "you" just something in general.

    Sorry for the confusion

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye
    Quote Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
    They should be wiped out of the country like the crap from your ass. If the country needs them so much then the country should look to have them move in and given work permits and be legal. If they are illegal then treat them like any criminal. The broke the law of that particular land. Deport their asses back to the stone age.
    I generally agree with this statement, but you look like a hypocrite when you have a bunch of illegal mexicans serving your fast food everyday too.
    all they have todo is cover the fence with vasaline
    I reject your reality and substitute my own

  11. #11
    Banned nik0tine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgamesh of Legends
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye
    Quote Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
    They should be wiped out of the country like the crap from your ass. If the country needs them so much then the country should look to have them move in and given work permits and be legal. If they are illegal then treat them like any criminal. The broke the law of that particular land. Deport their asses back to the stone age.
    I generally agree with this statement, but you look like a hypocrite when you have a bunch of illegal mexicans serving your fast food everyday too.
    all they have todo is cover the fence with vasaline
    What? I don't know what the smurf that means, but it sounds pretty racist.

  12. #12

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    He means to oil up the fence so that the people could not climb it to get over.

    I really have no idea what to do in these situations. The problem is not one of the country they are trying to get into is so great, but that the country they want to escape from sucks. We can throw all the money in aid at the people, but thier government basically reaps a benifit from that too. Its such a catch 22.

    The easiest thing to think of would be to spread facism! :rolleyes2

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  13. #13
    Unpostmodernizeable Shadow Nexus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
    They should be wiped out of the country like the crap from your ass. If the country needs them so much then the country should look to have them move in and given work permits and be legal. If they are illegal then treat them like any criminal. The broke the law of that particular land. Deport their asses back to the stone age.
    Does the word "dignity" ring a bell?

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    absolutely haram Recognized Member Madame Adequate's Avatar
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    The problem is indeed that any one nation opening borders would be somewhat overwhelmed. In reality the solution is to open borders of all nations everywhere. This is not going to happen for a long, long time, if at all. However, bear in mind that it is not common for people to actually want to emigrate. For example, most immigrants from Eastern Europe to the West only actually want to go for a few months to earn some money so their family has more security when they go back. People don't want to leave their homes much of the time - they go through necessity. If they were allowed to come in, earn a few months wages, and go back home, both nations would benefit. In this particular instance, Spain would have people to do the less savory jobs, whilst the African nations would be bringing in desperately needed wealth. Then these people can start new businesses of their own in Africa, leading to more jobs and wealth over there.

  15. #15
    Proudly Loathsome ;) DMKA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nik0tine
    What? I don't know what the smurf that means, but it sounds pretty racist.
    I believe he means so they'll slip off of it as they're climbing up...or something.
    I like Kung-Fu.

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