"Anti-Torture Amendment"; Bush disapproves

[ShunNakamura]

"Riiiight, because the IRA has the same MO as ETA, Al'Quada, Operation Rescue, Hamas, the Grey Wolves, the Shining Path, Omega 7, and God's Army." actuall they do. noone with any common sense would leave a bomb laying around for a long period of time. the quicker it detonates the less likely it is of being found and disarmed. leaving a suitcase on a train for a week or parking a car outside a police station in baghdad for a few days will arouse suspicions and someone might take a peek.

Well if you really wanted you could leave a bomb for a longer time in an attempt to predict what your opponent would do. Of course that is always unrealiable but It can be quite affective. I'll see if I can come up with an example afterschool(gotta leave soon, but I am sure prediction can work with bombs as it does with other type of actions).

pre emptive strikes have a habit of being flawed. like the pre-emptive iraq war. pre emptive movement leads to mistake as it is based only on intelligence. which really the american defence lacks anyway.

So all selfdefense is flawed?

"And the only reason I would have to be afraid is if I thought I was on that list. And if they only harm those who are trying to harm them(selfdefense) then I wouldn't be on that list." but that is not the case. you are america. you are part of a system that tortures prisoners. after abu gahrib bombings of american troops doubled. not because they were looking for lindy england. they just wanted to kill american soldiers. didn't matter who. it was just one less war criminal to them. you are on that list. a potential target. your country has pissed alot of people off. and one day you may suffer for that.

And was I not on the list from before this war and torture? If someone can not determine the difference between people and what they do and what they do in different situations, then perhaps they should not be on this earth anyways. They will likely only bring sadness and unhappiness. As I said. I have enough intelligence that I can infer that a certian treatment is only for those who try to kill one of a persons own. And since I would rather not kill anyone I think I would be safe from such treatment.

I think I mentioned I wouldn't be terribly surprised or even angry if I heard american soldiers were being tortured or shown scenes thereof. The soldiers most likley knew that at some point they may end up in enemy hands.

torture is the worst crime possible you can commit. worse than rape and murder. there is only one worse crime possible. genocide. and i will not be reduced to that. american soldiers may lack morals. but them and their comrades will pay for that in the end.

This I disaggree with I would rather be tortured then raped or murdered. Torture can be endured... murder... well I have never heard of someone surviving murder. Perhaps a murder attempt but not murder itself. After all the definition is TO kill.. not to attempt to kill.

Torture doesn't always have to cause emotional damage(depending on the form.. but I beleive most of us argueing are more for the mild forms and the limiting or blocking of the harsher methods), whereas rape can easily seriosally damage someone's spirit. So this would probably depend on the person. Someone who is highly emotional and sensitive, but has a fair endurance for suffering, would likley rather put up with pain that is mostly physical then to put up with something, that for them, was highly painful for the spirit. Not just mental but down even deeper.

"My point is that what Geneva is is an arbitrary standard, one that never considers the circumstances under which it might be violated" exactly. because there is no excuse or justification. torture is not heavily used by the iraqi insurgents anyway. and even if it was is that our best excuse? "they started it"? "they're doing it as well" "the big boys get to do it?" you can fight a war without it.

If you say there is no circumstance where it can be justified, not only have you lied but you have tried to simplify our world. Remember I like color. Black and white is not only boring but quite a lie. There is always an exception somewhere, somehow. Even if we do not see it in a thousand million years... one will arise sometime. Thus, anything that claims something is 100% absolute is most likely a lie of somesort. And those that aren't I have clauses for... so you see not even I believe that my absolute believe is absolute.