"Anti-Torture Amendment"; Bush disapproves

[edczxcvbnm]

This is were it really gets tricky with law and what not. I have read that memo before and I know what it says. As I said above the law about what consitutes torture is vague. The words severe is open to interrpetation. What constitutes severe? The DOJ decided that with the memo. I do not agree with it but I would say legally it isn't outside the bounds of the initial law and it tough to argue either way.

Severe is essentially equated to the words 'A lot'. What is a lot? It needs to be better defined so there is less wiggle room by countries.

Thank you for better explaining the international court to me. I don't agree with the idea of a international court yet. It is a good idea in principal but I think it can still lead to bias and many problems when you look at how different legal systems work.

I have seen THE RUMPOLE OF THE BAILEY on Public Broadcasting Station(PBS) and it looks very different from how our legal system works over here. There is a lot the same but also things work very differently. I think the idea of an international court still needs to be given more thought but before a court really comes into play I think there still needs to be some sort of enforcement agency(this goes back to the uselessness of the UN in be able to enforce anything).

I will do my own research. What always bothers me is that you are so smart and probably smarter than me but I think you let your bias get in the way too much sometimes. And yes I am one arrogant bastard XD

[Cloud No.9]

while i was browsing around recently i found a very interesting quote on abu gharib that i never found the space to use. while this thread has quitened down i will use it. it is a great highlight into what abu gharib and more generally torture is about. it is also sickening when it comes down to how far dehumanisation has got.

it comes from a radio host called rush limbaugh.

"This is no different than what happens at the Skull and Bones initiation, and we're going to ruin people's lives over it, and we're going to hamper our military effort, and then we are going to really hammer them because they had a good time. You know, these people are being fired at every day. I'm talking about people having a good time, these people. You ever Madonna, or Britney Spears do on stage. Maybe I'm -- yeah, and get an NEA grant for something like this."

thoughts?

[edczxcvbnm]

XD You apparantly do not know who Rush is. He runs a 'saterical'(or so they say ) conservative radio show where he talks for 3 hours about how the liberals are ruining society.

I think 98.32432543624363245% of whatever Rush says is complete bull. I don't even care to read what ever he said because it is all for controversy and ratings.

[Teek]

Yeah, Rush Limbaugh is what I would call the conservative Michael Moore. Not that he doesn't make a good point or two here and there, but it's all masked in bitchiness and name-calling, so no one cares.

Quote Bill Maher, if you're going to quote a comedian-esque guy who talks about politics.

[edczxcvbnm]

Not that he doesn't make a good point or two here and there

That is what the other 1.678% is for XD

[Cloud No.9]

but what of the actual quote?

[edczxcvbnm]

There is some truth in there. They were not doing it to torture the people. That just happens to be a side effect of what they did. I think jail was too harsh for a military that is having trouble meeting recruitment requirements. Makes people not want to join out of fear they may make a mistake and get jailed for it.

I don't know what he was talking about when he gets to the brittney stuff. I think we need more of what was said before and after the quote to get to know what he said a bit better.

[Cloud No.9]

no jail for murderers and rapists? who did it for nothing else other than enjoyment.

it was not a mistake. can we honestly make excuses for a bunch of dumbass redneck torturers. rapists and murderers? they knew exactly what they were doing.

the thing about britney is about being paid for doing something you enjoy. like singing. or sexually assualting another man with a chemical light. whatever floats your boat.

[edczxcvbnm]

It has been a year since that incident and I didn't follow it. If they did in fact rape people and kill them then they got what they deserved. I don't recall that happening though. The glow stick thing sounds like a solid 6 months though.

[edczxcvbnm]

DOUBLE POSTED!

I actually found a time line online of when your quote was said(I was curious about the rape and killings) and found out that the quote was said when there were just those 12 photos and any knowing of rape, death and even the glow rod were still yet to be revealed by the Secretary of Defense.

I would post the link but it has those pictures on the web site.

[Cloud No.9]

it's okay i have already posted the pictures from abu garhib and i don't believe anyone has complained. the nudity was censored.

the rape and attack with the chemical light are not in the pictures. that detail was in the taguba report.

other details of american abuse of pow's can be found by searching for.
the salt pit, Khalid El-Masri, habibullah and dilawar.

if you can't find anything too detailed i will be happy to help.

what's intersting about the taguba report is that it was ignored.

[edczxcvbnm]

I will look that up. I am going to say this about that quote. Since he said it when there were only photos and they didn't look THAT bad and was just like what Rush said, a collage hazing', I will say he wasn't completely in the wrong when he said it. After what came out later on in the month it looks like a TERRIBLE quote. I will send you a link of the time line site I found.

I am not posting the link. I take no chance with that considering how many times I was a vote or two away from being perma banned.

[Cloud No.9]

point to it on the page i gave then.

http://www.yirmeyahureview.com/archi...aib_photos.htm

i'm probably far closer to a ban than you. but i don't believe it is offensive.

[edczxcvbnm]

You would like to think that but I have 5 years of warnings, bans and other crap against me. I think I used up any and all capital I ever had. I think I had to start borrowing other people's capital XD

I will look at that site when I get home. I am at work now and don't really feel comfortable looking at said pictures here. I even just scrolled by the few that were on the page I sent you.

[Gnostic Yevon]

I don't object to the photos. The thing I object to is when spamming the Abu Graib pics becomes an answer to some point raised with no other content. If you can't deal with the arguments raised, than don't post. If a nasty pic is part of the discussion, I can deal, though I'd rather it be linked than have it turn up without warning.