people just think that because he bit the head off the bat. And ozzy sounds more like a really hard version of classic rock
people just think that because he bit the head off the bat. And ozzy sounds more like a really hard version of classic rock
Owen made this sig. R.I.P.
Crushed Hope just provided really accurate and thorough descriptions of the genres. Why don't you just read the post you replied to?Originally Posted by Traitorfish
Wrong. Mechanix was the version on the first Metallica demo, No life till Leather. Metallica slowed it doen and added the interlude for Kill 'em all, Megadeth kept it the same for Killing is my business. But you had the right idea.
Thanks Moose >_> I didn't want to go around making a fool out of myself, but I knew something was changed hahah.
No matter how much you and Sigmund Freud want it to be, 'mother' is not a curse word.
I like how megadeth did it better.
Owen made this sig. R.I.P.
I know I really shouldn't touch this topic anymore, not even with a long stick, but I still want to make a stand here...
There has been, and still is, "heated" (to say the least) discussion about what is considered black metal and what not. Anyhow, I asked an expert about this (just so you know, I'm not making this up! and he really is an expert on metal, after all, he's a journalist and has studied these things), and he told me something along the lines of the following (and it was close to what I thought)..
In its purest form, black metal refers only to anti-christ, occultism and satanism -based lyrics. BUT. There's also a style of music that is called black metal, which represents exactly what old black metal riffs, rhythms, moods etc. sound like. It could even be instrumental and still sound like black metal, like Burzum.
Again, this is one of those fights of the "puritanists" and those who see things from a different point of view, and there is no conclusion.
There are those who say that black metal is nothing but black lyrics connected to a certain style of music, that is as hellish as it can be, with no melodies or such.
But for example bands that have orchestra material, like Dimmu Borgir's new album, have some of the same kinds of black metal riffs etc. And anyways, all the labels have been invented later, after everything had been born.
There's so much to metal, that there are no 100% viable rules or regulations to it.
So if the first black metal-type set-ups were Venom and Mercyful Fate in the beginning of the 80's and nowadays black metal is represented by bands like Dimmu Borgir or Cradle of Filth, then there's no clear rule at all.
But black metal as music and black metal as an ideology are two different things. Basically black metal is the specific sort of material in lyrics, and nothing can be black metal without it, but as said, the "black metal-ish mood" or "black metal riffs" exist in the same way.
He also told me that it's pointless to debate about this, because there is no ultimate truth, only opinions... And now I'm starting to find my own post a bit unnecessary. Ah well...
I'm listening to...
Fevered lovers and austere thinkers
Love equally, in their ripe season
Cats powerful and gentle, pride of the house
Like them they feel the cold, like them are sedentary
- Charles Baudelaire
Yes, I read them, but what's the real difference? If you play black metal and death metal next to each other, they sound very similar. You can ponce about saying 'Oh, it's all in the yakkity blahitty blabbooni', but that doesn't change the fact that you're unnsessearilly pigeon-holing everything.
It's just metal. Genres are Ok if you want to be specific, but you can't always pigeon-hole everything. Among other things, some of the best bands move between genres. Motorhead, for example- "is it heavy? Is it speed? is it thrash? Oh, I can't shove it into a dumb category! Aah, I'm scared!"
I'm usually not to bothered about all these genres, but when people come out and say "I like a ceratin genre of music! I'm so coooool!" it really annoys me.
People get wa[aaaaaa]y too excited about it.
...
Saying that black and death metal sound homogenous when played next to each other is rediculous and shows that you have no grasp on the genres.
Saying that would be like saying Michael Jackson and Hilary Duff sound just the same because they are pop music.
... also black metal, has nothing to do with lyrics, it is the sound. I am a purist in that respect. Anyone who thinks differently has no grasp on factual things.
Also, metal is sure not 100% classifyable, but 99% of it is.
Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir do not represent black metal, simply because they don't play it. They play Gothic metal.
Honestly, today BM is led by such bands as Blut Aus Nord,Darkthrone (still heh),Deathspell Omega, GBK, Graveland, Xasthur, Judas Iscariot, Nokturnal Mortum, and a few others.
Your friend is not an EXPERT on black metal, because if he were he would know that it is a SOUND. Not a lyrical thing. As I said, LYRICS MY BE TYPICAL BUT THEY DO NOT DEFINE THE GENRE!
... and Traitorfish, where do you get that I think I am cool because I can name off all these bands no one has ever heard of? I mean sure, I take pride in knowing of them, it shows I am not smurfing lazy when it comes to finding music I enjoy, however I never once stated, or even implied that I was cool because of it.
No matter how much you and Sigmund Freud want it to be, 'mother' is not a curse word.
The only reason i dont know Black metal is cause i dont listen to it. I only have thrash albums.
Owen made this sig. R.I.P.
-I did not know about true Viking Metal. Excuse me.
-I've been into all this metal business about as long as you have (3 years or so), and while I don't claim to know more than you, I will say that "thrash" and "speed" are interchangable. I regularly mingle with the elite/stuck-up metal crowd, and none of them have a problem calling slayer, megadeth, old metallica, anthrax, old blind guardian, pantera, testament, or sepultura "thrash" OR "speed" (the accepted term is "thrash", but speed is still used by some).
-I don't feel right just calling stuff "metal", so if saying "classic metal" isn't descriptive enough, I will refer to NWOBHM bands and the sound-alikes they spawned. As for NWOAHM, sure it's a "movement", but it is an easy way to put together a lot of bands going in a similar direction that popular metal hasn't gone in in a long time.
-Don't be hatin' Killswitch, manOr the whole melo-death scene which I believe you just dissed entirely
-You're splitting hairs on Opeth. They have, more often than not, the guitar and bass and death vox requirements of death metal. But the descriptor "progressive" comes with a lot attached. Just look at Dream Theater- they semi-popularized "progressive metal" and are looked at as the defining band, yet only about 2/3 of their material (if that) is really metal. They are all over the map, which comes from the progressive rock influence. Opeth has a lot of that same influence, yet have an even greater majority of "metal" to their name than DT. How they aren't progressive death metal baffles me. Yes, I understand that you would also put stuff like Death in there (but that's where you have to draw the line between death metal that's just "technical" in composition, vs. really diverse stuff that earns the moniker "progressive").
Actually, speed metal is a genre that is serparate from thrash. While thrash draws alot of hardcore punk influences, speed metal tends to be more or less focus on melody.
Basically, thrash is hardcore punk + heavy metal, while speed is a blur of the line between power metal and thrash.
A good example of speed metal would be Helloween's Walls of Jericho.
Oh I do not hate all melo-death, just the uninspired bands like Arch Enemy and most otherbands, I enjoy bands like Epoch of Unlight,Shadow, (early) In Flames, Omnium Gatherum, Holymarsh, Intestine Baalism, and Into Eternity.
However, with Opeth, they most certainly are not death metal, they are prog. metal with harsh vocals.
The closest band to Opeth that IS death metal, that I can even name is Demigod, and they are so much different from Opeth it is kind of crazy. I'm not saying Opeth are bad, just that they are not Death metal. Prog. metal CAN be heavy.
No matter how much you and Sigmund Freud want it to be, 'mother' is not a curse word.
When it becomes so hideously impossible to tell which genres are which, you know you have too many.
No not really, it is just very nitpicky at times, because alot of thrash bands have played speed metal in their careers, and many speed bands have played thrash in their careers so >_>
No matter how much you and Sigmund Freud want it to be, 'mother' is not a curse word.
This is more or less correct, but speed metal also draws important characteristics from 70's prog Rock. Basically, the four main speed metal bands are Metallica (Lightning, Puppets, Justice), Megadeth (Peace Sells, So far so good, Rust) Testament (First three albums) and Voivod. Helloween's Walls of Jericho sounds more like sped up Iron Maiden rather than containing any of the melodic/harmonic innovations as the aforementioned. A good example of a speed metal song is 'Master of Puppets' with its interesting riff changes and, especially, the melodic interlude.
Anyway, speed metal>pretty much all other metal
TRAOTORFISH: If you think these genres are ridiculous, listen to some Morbid Angel or Obituary and compare it to Metallica. Or even compare Slayer to Metallica. The difference is obvious.
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