Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 128

Thread: That's it, I've decided to become a vegetarian.

  1. #91

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Neco Arc
    i dont believe this... the reason are:
    colon does not absorb anything... its primary function is a tube leading from the small intestine to the rectum and absorbing water...
    This is from a definition from my Biology book:
    I never said the toxins were absorbed through the colon but that the colon does not pass the meat through quickly enough so that the toxins don't have chance to be absorbed.




    Another phrase:

    "Researchers spotlighted the importance of such proteins when they found that a hereditary defect in one of them is associated with a form of colon cancer. Apparently, this defect allows cancer-causing errors to accumulate in the DNA."

    from this, it says colon cancer is mainly caused by a defect gene, hence not what has been eaten...
    It says that this defect is associated with a form of colon cancer not that this is the only cause or the only form.


    one last thing... we cannot digest cardboard... it is impossible... For one thing cardboard is mostly cellulose and fibres... and if we could digest even a little bit of carboard... it would be harder for us to poop...
    My point was that altho we could eat cardboard it would not at all be digested well and it would not be a good idea to eat it. Like meat.

  2. #92
    This is England
    Papa Waigo
    Recognized Member DK's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    All the time in Sunny Beach
    Posts
    7,921
    Articles
    25
    Contributions
    • Hosted Eyes on You
    • Former Site Staff

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anaisa
    No I wasn't a lobster in a former life but I don't need to have been to say that boiling water being poured over you hurts I think everyone would agree with me on that. Where as if I said pouring boiling water over you doesn't hurt somehow I don't think anybody would believe me. Unless I was talking about a lobster in which case the majority would agree. No I don't know whether they are killed instantly but thats not my point whether they are killed instantly or not I still think its wrong.
    Yeah, having boiling water poured over you would hurt. However, if you're killed instantly, you're not going to feel the pain. This is what happens to Lobsters. Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you, and if you think it's wrong then thats your belief and that's fine. I don't see why if you believe in it yourself and are happy with yourself why you then feel the need to make other people change their belief that there is nothing wrong with eating meat. Let people get on with their own lives.

    A lion needs to eat meat to survive, we do not. You could say that about everything the murderer or the rapeist could say "just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it right or wrong". If I killed a human being and ate them the majority would think I was wrong. If it was an animal they'd see no problem with it. You cannot have empathy for something or someone until you put yourself in its place and most humans are unable to do that with animals hence them eating them. For showing empathy towards an animal im wrong? I know im not.
    Yeah, so what? A Lion was just an example. A large percentile of animals on this planet eat meat, and if they wanted to they could survive on the nutrients in fruits and plants just like we could. Hunting and eating meat is natural to them and it's natural to humans in the same way. We're all mammals here. I don't think Sharks have much empathy for the few humans they like to chow down on. And where did I or anyone else say you were wrong for showing empathy towards animals? Theres nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to eat meat because you don't think it's right that animals are supposed to be killed for food, then that's fine. Just don't try and force your belief on other people, or tell us what we're doing is wrong just because you don't like/agree with it, because that IS wrong. Live your life your own way, let other people live their life theirs.

    Meh. I'm not supposed to post serious things.

  3. #93
    dizzy up the girl Recognized Member Rye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    a tiny boot
    Posts
    24,891
    Articles
    4
    Blog Entries
    3
    Contributions
    • Hosted Eyes on You
    • Former Cid's Knight

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyono
    Yeah, having boiling water poured over you would hurt. However, if you're killed instantly, you're not going to feel the pain. This is what happens to Lobsters. Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you, and if you think it's wrong then thats your belief and that's fine. I don't see why if you believe in it yourself and are happy with yourself why you then feel the need to make other people change their belief that there is nothing wrong with eating meat. Let people get on with their own lives.



    Yeah, so what? A Lion was just an example. A large percentile of animals on this planet eat meat, and if they wanted to they could survive on the nutrients in fruits and plants just like we could. Hunting and eating meat is natural to them and it's natural to humans in the same way. We're all mammals here. I don't think Sharks have much empathy for the few humans they like to chow down on. And where did I or anyone else say you were wrong for showing empathy towards animals? Theres nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to eat meat because you don't think it's right that animals are supposed to be killed for food, then that's fine. Just don't try and force your belief on other people, or tell us what we're doing is wrong just because you don't like/agree with it, because that IS wrong. Live your life your own way, let other people live their life theirs.

    Meh. I'm not supposed to post serious things.
    Of course you are, you're the self-comtemplation emo ranger.


  4. #94
    Who's scruffy lookin'? Captain Maxx Power's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Millennium Falcon
    Posts
    7,905

    Default

    I always say, I'll listen to your opinion, but I won't always appreciate it. Like I've said for years : If you're a vegetarian, you're not a revolutionary. You're not on some crusade against the evils of meat eating, you're not making a statement, you're not going to change the world, and you're not going to make a huge impact on the way in which the world operates. All you're doing is forcing your body to work overtime to digest all that cellulose and other unwholesome nutrients associated with plants. You want to do that, then that's fine, but like Kyono says, don't go shoving your moralisitic clap-trap down the rest of our throats. I like meat, meat is my favourite food, and I really don't care what poor suffering the animal went through, because it's my life as far as I'm concerned humans are at the top of the food chain, so no matter how the organism lived previously, it's death means I can continue on living. Are you really going to deny it it's last purpose in life, or are we leaving it for the bacteria now? You want those shift-eyed single-cellers to win? Because I sure don't!
    There is no signature here. Move along.

  5. #95

    Default

    Yeah, so what? A Lion was just an example. A large percentile of animals on this planet eat meat, and if they wanted to they could survive on the nutrients in fruits and plants just like we could. Hunting and eating meat is natural to them and it's natural to humans in the same way. We're all mammals here. I don't think Sharks have much empathy for the few humans they like to chow down on. And where did I or anyone else say you were wrong for showing empathy towards animals?
    Justed wanted to interject here, because while I eat meat I don't think this point helps your argument. It feels to me like you're saying that because some death occurs for animals it's okay for us to kill for food too, which I can't agree with. You can never say some wrong justifies more. I know that's not what you meant, because you don't think it's wrong but this point seemed to be argueing something different, argueing that it was okay, because other animals do it too. Just don't think this fits your argument very well, and felt like pointing it out.

    Edit: And I think some of Maxx Power's post said this perfectly (the first half of the post, the rest I find much harder to agree with).

    Thanks Jess1 for the awesome sig!!!
    Heh, heh, heh
    Join my latest RP, Magi of Greece, http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=77394

  6. #96
    This is England
    Papa Waigo
    Recognized Member DK's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    All the time in Sunny Beach
    Posts
    7,921
    Articles
    25
    Contributions
    • Hosted Eyes on You
    • Former Site Staff

    Default

    What I was trying to say was I don't get why it's wrong for humans to eat meat when other living creatures do it also. As far as I'm concerned we're all animals on this planet, even humans, no matter how much more advanced our species may or may not be. We still have animalistic instincts, and we still have animalistic qualities. Hell, we have teeth purely designed for tearing meat. Just because we know we can survive eating nothing but vegetables doesn't mean we should.

  7. #97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyono
    Yeah, having boiling water poured over you would hurt. However, if you're killed instantly, you're not going to feel the pain. This is what happens to Lobsters.
    What your saying goes against all the studies I have ever come across even those who believe they don't feel pain admit they do not die instantly. They agree that the lobster does not die instantly but they say that they cannot feel pain because their brains are too small and rudimentary. And that when they thrash around in the water thats just a reflex... It has been proven in studies that lobsters do infact respond to pain.
    Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you, and if you think it's wrong then thats your belief and that's fine. I don't see why if you believe in it yourself and are happy with yourself why you then feel the need to make other people change their belief that there is nothing wrong with eating meat. Let people get on with their own lives.
    As ive already said if something or someone is made to suffer that i care about im not going to just say "oh well, if someone wants to make them suffer thats their choice"

    Yeah, so what? A Lion was just an example. A large percentile of animals on this planet eat meat, and if they wanted to they could survive on the nutrients in fruits and plants just like we could.
    No actually they couldn't animals have evolved to eat what they do.
    Hunting and eating meat is natural to them and it's natural to humans in the same way. We're all mammals here. I don't think Sharks have much empathy for the few humans they like to chow down on.
    Hunting and eating meat is not natural to humans if that were the case humans would have a far more carnivorous physiology.
    And where did I or anyone else say you were wrong for showing empathy towards animals? Theres nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to eat meat because you don't think it's right that animals are supposed to be killed for food, then that's fine. Just don't try and force your belief on other people, or tell us what we're doing is wrong just because you don't like/agree with it, because that IS wrong. Live your life your own way, let other people live their life theirs.
    You said just because "I don't agree with it doesn't make it right or wrong" hence me saying that me showing empathy towards animals is right and causing suffering to them is wrong. And im not trying to force my beliefs on other people your stateing your argument for eating meat and im stateing mine for not doing so nobodys trying to force their beliefs on anyone else and if they are then their wasting their time.

  8. #98
    Banned Reine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    The ship of the PRMs! Arrrrr!
    Posts
    2,260

    Default

    Just...SHUT UP people.

    It's obvious the other side couldnt care less about the other, so why bother? No one will win. Youve turned the thread into something completely different, ald however amusing it is to see these pointless arguments, its also annoying.

    Take it elsewhere please.

    [leeza]When did you become a Mod? Do not take on moderating duties again until you are. Use the warn button. ~ Leeza[/leeza]

  9. #99
    Meat Puppet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    yes
    Posts
    9,983
    Contributions
    • Notable contributions to former community wiki

    Default

    All this talk about me is making my ego swell.

  10. #100
    Grimoire of the Sages ShunNakamura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    2,919

    Default

    *cracks knuckles*

    I will so have fun with this.

    You say we are meant to be herbivores because of our body build. I say we are meant to be omnivores because we exhibit builds from all three(pure meat, pure omnivore, pure vegetarian). We are not one of them, we are all three. Humans are highly versitile. That is how we ended up where we are. We can live nearly anywhere. And we can eat a little bit of everything and live adequetly.

    Now looking at our teeth. Humans have some meat cutting teeth. Not as prominent as other species, but bear in mind the percentage of meet in our diet isn't specified as high as theirs. But we also have the flat molars whereas many meateaters don't. Why? Perhaps cause we eat both? We chew instead of gulp... well I guess psyc could have programed us to gulp meat and chew plants.. but why not always chew so no mistake is made? The enzymes in the mouth being aimed at plants. Plants take longer to digest so it makes sense to start as fast as possible. Meat breaks up quickly and thus you want to be ready to absorb before breaking it down, so in other words after you are done chewing. All of it makes sense to me.

    No claws? who says we were meant to take down bison? Last I checked two of the healthiest meats for people are fish and small poultry. And you know what? We dont' need claws to take them down. A good comparsion are dog nails. Dogs eat small animals(mostly rabits and such but they will eat poultry) but do you know how much damage thier nails actually do? Nothing that is what. I have even had a wild species of dog(the NGSD) with uncut nails, claw me up.. no more damage then long grown out human nails do. Dogs I know need meat in thier diet and thier nails won't kill anything(generally) so our weak nails isn't teastament for not being a meat eater.

    Now as a last bit I will actually cite some evidence, unlike some.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html
    NEWS RELEASE, 6/14/99

    Meat-eating was essential for human evolution, says UC Berkeley anthropologist specializing in diet

    By Patricia McBroom, Public Affairs


    BERKELEY-- Human ancestors who roamed the dry and open savannas of Africa about 2 million years ago routinely began to include meat in their diets to compensate for a serious decline in the quality of plant foods, according to a physical anthropologist at the University of California, Berkeley.

    It was this new meat diet, full of densely-packed nutrients, that provided the catalyst for human evolution, particularly the growth of the brain, said Katharine Milton, an authority on primate diet.

    Without meat, said Milton, it's unlikely that proto humans could have secured enough energy and nutrition from the plants available in their African environment at that time to evolve into the active, sociable, intelligent creatures they became. Receding forests would have deprived them of the more nutritious leaves and fruits that forest-dwelling primates survive on, said Milton.

    Her thesis complements the discovery last month by UC Berkeley professor Tim White and others that early human species were butchering and eating animal meat as long ago as 2.5 million years. Milton's article integrates dietary strategy with the evolution of human physiology to argue that meat eating was routine. It is published this month in the journal "Evolutionary Anthropology" (Vol.8, #1).

    Milton said that her theories do not reflect on today's vegetarian diets, which can be completely adequate, given modern knowledge of nutrition.

    "We know a lot about nutrition now and can design a very satisfactory vegetarian diet," said Milton, a professor in the Department of Environmental Science, Policy & Management.

    But she added that the adequacy of a vegetarian diet depends either on modern scientific knowledge or on traditional food habits, developed over many generations, in which people have worked out a complete diet by putting different foods together.

    In many parts of the world where people have little access to meat, they have run the risk of malnutrition, said Milton. This happened, for instance, in Southeast Asia where people relied heavily on a single plant food, polished rice, and developed the nutritional disease, beriberi. Closer to home, in the Southern United States, many people dependent largely on corn meal developed the nutritional disease, pellagra.

    Milton argues that meat supplied early humans not only with all the essential amino acids, but also with many vitamins, minerals and other nutrients they required, allowing them to exploit marginal, low quality plant foods, like roots - foods that have few nutrients but lots of calories. These calories, or energy, fueled the expansion of the human brain and, in addition, permitted human ancestors to increase in body size while remaining active and social.

    "Once animal matter entered the human diet as a dependable staple, the overall nutrient content of plant foods could drop drastically, if need be, so long as the plants supplied plenty of calories for energy," said Milton.

    The brain is a relentless consumer of calories, said Milton. It needs glucose 24 hours a day. Animal protein probably did not provide many of those calories, which were more likely to come from carbohydrates, she said.

    Buffered against nutritional deficiency by meat, human ancestors also could intensify their use of plant foods with toxic compounds such as cyanogenic glycosides, foods other primates would have avoided, said Milton. These compounds can produce deadly cyanide in the body, but are neutralized by methionine and cystine, sulfur-containing amino acids present in meat. Sufficient methionine is difficult

    to find in plants. Most domesticated grains - wheat, rice, maize, barley, rye and millet - contain this cyanogenic compound as do many beans and widely-eaten root crops such as taro and manioc.

    Since plant foods available in the dry and deforested early human environment had become less nutritious, meat was critical for weaned infants, said Milton. She explained that small infants could not have processed enough bulky plant material to get both nutrients for growth and energy for brain development.

    "I disagree with those who say meat may have been only a marginal food for early humans," said Milton. "I have come to believe that the incorporation of animal matter into the diet played an absolutely essential role in human evolution."

    Milton's paper also demonstrates that the human digestive system is fundamentally that of a plant-eating primate, except that humans have developed a more elongated small intestine rather than retaining the huge colon of apes - a change in the human lineage which indicates a diet of more concentrated nutrients.

    ###

    This server has been established by the University of California at Berkeley Public Information Office. Copyright for all items on this server held by The Regents of the University of California. Thanks for your interest in UC Berkeley. More Press Releases | More Campus News and Events | UC Berkeley Home Page

    Also this site(I haven't read all of it yet) seems to be a good source. Dunno what its conclusion is yet though.

    I don't care if you argue whether you should eat it now or even if it is unheathy to eat it processed. But to say our bodies aren't built for it is an absurbity that I can not believe one would make.


    STILL Updating the anime list. . . I didn't think I was that much of an anime freak! I don't even want to consider updating the manga list!

  11. #101
    an unusually clever whore
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    806

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TisWas
    Regardless of being a Vegan or not animals are still going to be slaughtered. & you can't say that meat isn't healthy. I don't what meat you ever tried in the past. There's enough problems in the world already, we don't need people whining about how they're opposed to eating meat just because they read something in a book or hear something on the TV. Like I said, you either are one or you aren't.
    They are only slaughtered because there is a consumer market for it. By being a vegetarian/vegan there becomes less of a market. If everyone was a vegetarian/vegan, hypothetically, there would be no market for it, and slaughterhouses would go out of business.

    Lean meat is healthy in moderation, but not as healthy as fruits and vegetables in any-ation.

    You don't what meat I eat in past, is okay, yes.

    People less ignorant would argue that humans being excessively cruel to animals is an issue today, and a major one.

    etc etc etc. I don't know why I bother to post stuff like this. If you are depraved enough, then do what you will.

    edit ShinNakamura; There was a reason our neandrathal ancestors had a gall bladder, an appendix, and sharp eye teeth. It was to aid the process of eatong meat, no doubt. But we've evolved boyond that, and we no longer require meat in our diet.
    Last edited by Tokki Wartooth; 11-09-2005 at 04:25 AM.

  12. #102
    Banned Sasquatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    The Seventh Circle of Hell
    Posts
    1,760

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tokingquil
    They are only slaughtered because there is a consumer market for it. By being a vegetarian/vegan there becomes less of a market. If everyone was a vegetarian/vegan, hypothetically, there would be no market for it, and slaughterhouses would go out of business.
    Hypothetically, yes. But that's extremely unrealistic. I'm sure world peace and an end to poverty would be nice, too, but it ain't gonna happen.

    Lean meat is healthy in moderation, but not as healthy as fruits and vegetables in any-ation.
    Not true. Lean meat is healthy, period. True, if you base your entire diet off meat, you won't be able to get EVERY nutrient you need, but you could live just fine for quite some time. Hell, liver has more vitamins and minerals than you could imagine. And some fruits and vegetables, if you base your diet entirely off them (or fruits and vegetables as a whole), you wouldn't get everything you need. So fruits and vegetables are healthy, yes, but no more healthy than lean meat, honestly.

    People less ignorant would argue that humans being excessively cruel to animals is an issue today, and a major one.
    People less arrogant would argue that humans being excessively cruel to animals is nowhere near a major issue today. Mind your tongue.

    edit ShinNakamura; There was a reason our neandrathal ancestors had a gall bladder, an appendix, and sharp eye teeth. It was to aid the process of eatong meat, no doubt. But we've evolved boyond that, and we no longer require meat in our diet.
    Another problem with Evolutionism. What evolved first, the diet or the "equipment"? Why would humans evolve different organs to digest different foods? Why would humans evolve different diets to be better digested by their organs?

  13. #103
    lomas de chapultepec Recognized Member eestlinc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    brooklyn
    Posts
    17,552
    Contributions
    • Former Cid's Knight

    Default

    man, who cares? eat whatever you want to eat, be healthy or not. trying to convince people to stop being stupid is a fool's errand. don't waste your energy.

    and stop flaming each other.

  14. #104
    Banned Hawkeye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    3,789

    Default


    Now I'm going to eat a hamburger now, possibly three

  15. #105
    Grimoire of the Sages ShunNakamura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    2,919

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tokingquil
    edit ShinNakamura; There was a reason our neandrathal ancestors had a gall bladder, an appendix, and sharp eye teeth. It was to aid the process of eatong meat, no doubt. But we've evolved boyond that, and we no longer require meat in our diet.

    We have evolved beyond it, eh? Well how come a few will get sick from a purely veg diet? It ain't the majority but I have seen some who suffered from it.

    Many dog people I have spoken with say that dogs have evolved beyond needing large amounts of real meat in thier diets. And while many can easily survive that way, some will get dreadfully sick. Put them on a meat rich diet and viola they are fine health wise for the most part. Which is evidence enough in my eyes that dogs are supposed to eat meat, and I see this in some people as well.

    If we have evolved beyond that, why is fish still considered such a healthy food? It does alot of good for us. Pretty much the same with poultry.

    So basically,

    Yes many can live on it.. but the fact that some get sick when they don't eat meat and the fact that our bodies and the like seem to be geared towards at least some meat consumption and that our closest realitives(or at least one of them) has some meat in thier diet seems to be a good incentive that we aren't truely evolved beyond that.

    Fight against the cruelty of the factories if you like, but just remember that cruel factories != meat eating. Trying to convert everyone to vegetarianism to fight the factories is hardly the best way to go about that task. Not to mention I don't care for the way you all(generalizing since I have seen many do it) go about it.


    STILL Updating the anime list. . . I didn't think I was that much of an anime freak! I don't even want to consider updating the manga list!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •