That's it, I've decided to become a vegetarian.

[Leeza]

Yes, this has gone way off topic and I will close this thread if it continues on like this. I have said it before in another thread, there is nothing that anyone can say about how wrong they think vegetarianism is that will outweigh the reasons why someone is a vegetarian. I don't even understand why you feel that you should try to do so.

If people don't start to listen here instead of just trying to be heard, I will close this.

[ShunNakamura]

Well I know this is somewhat off topic but:

How many times has this thread been closed already? I could have sworn I saw closed on it once or twice at least.... I am begining to get really really confused .... Open Close Open Close Open... now close? aHhhhH. Are you people trying to play with my mind!!?

Now onto the simi-topic:

As for visiting meat at the slaughter. I got freinds and the like that slaughter thier own meat. They are big meat eaters. I have seen photos, video clips, etc of slaughter houses. The only ones that would make me want to stop eating meat(and since I rarely eat beef except when mother makes it it doesn't bother me much at all) are the ones about inhuman conditions. Which should stop anyways thus making it a moot point in my opinion.

Now onto the real topic(maybe maybe not):

Soy Burgers last I checked were actually pretty good. And the High School uses them instead of real burgers. Anyways that was a bad ditch at the original topic but meh, it may help.

[Yamaneko]

I don't think most meat-eaters are trying to "convert" (haha) vegetarians. They just want to be left alone and not told that they're "murdering" (haha) animals through their consumption of meat products. This is as bad as telling someone that their religion is wrong and that their own is the only right one. Worship or eat whatever the hell you want.

I agree with Leeza, though. Stop bickering.

[Tokki Wartooth]

Actually, if we ate only meat, but many different kinds of meat (as carnivores do), we would survive just fine, as we could get any and all needed nutrients.

If one could "survive fine" without vitamins B1, C or E (since carnivores produce these vitamins internally, and we are not carnivores). I'll be there pointing and laughing at you in the hospital when you have scurvy!

Um. Yeah. I like soy burgers too.

[RPJesus]

saying "I'm a vegetarian but I eat fish" is like saying "I'm an atheist but I believe in God."

Sort of, but it depends what you believe, really. I'm vegetarian, and I don't eat fish, but I'm not bothered about it. I don't have much against killing little animals (I think we've already established this, though. Sorry?). Fish aren't a big deal. They live a free life, so it's fine. The only problem with it is that certain types are running out. I don't eat fish just becaus it's easier. Maybe if I start eating fish, I'll be tempted to chicken. And then pomeranion. And it works its way up from there. Eventually to popes and vikings 'cause I figure they're the best.

[Dingo Jellybean]

As a vegetarian, I don't hold anything against meat-eaters to be perfectly honest.

I don't look at meat eaters as murderers and such. I do think it's important to eat a little bit of meat (maybe 3-4 servings a week) in conjunction with a mostly vegetarian diet. But I'm a vegetarian because I do care about my overall health, but at the same time I am very compassionate about animals. Unfortunately I do not own any animals as I am very allergic to them. I've taken Claritin and it never helps. It's not just the fur either, there's just something with animals that makes me feel miserable (physically, not emotionally).

Iron and zinc are very important to one's diet, but I'll stick with my multi-vitamin for now. I know supplements are not nearly as good as a natural source, but for a vegetarian diet that includes fish, it's the next best alternative.

As for people who criticize me for eating fish, I never said I never expected that. I do realize that pesco-vegetarianism is debatable as a vegetarian diet. I do limit my fish intake and I do buy fish-oil supplements instead, as I eat fish maybe once or twice a week. Then again, I'm not sure how fish-oil is actually extracted from the fish, but I assume it's probably no better than eating fish itself. But Omega-3 has been proven to help one's own health. But I know flaxseed is full of O3, but I can't seem to find it around me. Some bread like Baker's Inn has O3 in it too, which I might buy since they make good bread.

As for the whole meat debate as to whether we can or able or evolved from being herbivores, I don't know. Our teeth are definitely able to grind meat and there is evidence to show that our teeth evolved that way. At the same time there are vegetation out there that we consume that would be impossible to grind without the very same teeth used to grind meat, so you can debate this till you're green in the face.

But I will say this though, meat eaters (strictly) have MUCH higher rates of constipation than those who eat at least a mild serving of vegetables and fruit. It tells me the body can absorb much of the meat and break it down so our body can use whatever it digests, but just because your body can digest it doesn't mean it's good for you.

Not just skin health that has led me to vegetarianism, but physical and overall health. I have a much easier time maintaining my six-pack in my pesco-vegetarian diet than I do eating meat. Whenever I'm tempted to eat meat I do one thing: I lift up my shirt and look in the mirror and say "God, I'm probably a narcist for doing this but look at that 6 pack...do I want to throw something that 90% of the population wants away by eating that 2 lb. angus burger?"

Okay, maybe it's an odd way to stay pesco-vegetarian, but it works! Besides, anyone conscious about their health has to be a little bit of a narcist.

Not true. Lean meat is healthy, period. True, if you base your entire diet off meat, you won't be able to get EVERY nutrient you need, but you could live just fine for quite some time. Hell, liver has more vitamins and minerals than you could imagine. And some fruits and vegetables, if you base your diet entirely off them (or fruits and vegetables as a whole), you wouldn't get everything you need. So fruits and vegetables are healthy, yes, but no more healthy than lean meat, honestly.

That's very false. You can go to www.webmd.com (a site edited by certified doctors and physicians) and see for yourself. Lean meat is healthy to an extent. Liver itself can be very toxic to people, mainly because of it's high vitamin A count. Of course you would have to eat certain kinds of liver, like those from sled dogs to be overdosed in vitamin A. Fruits and vegetables themselves are proven cancer and disease fighters. Lean meats are just lower in "bad" cholesterol and saturated and trans fats. You can say Reduced Fat Cheez-Its are healthy by the same argument. Just because something is low fat and low cholesterol does not make it healthy. And no doctor will tell you that you don't have enough lean meats in your diet if your cholesterol is high.

One more thing. I never liked steak. Even when I was eating meat, I avoided steak because it just doesn't taste that good. I never saw anything in it and while people would throw $20 to eat it. I never understood people's obsession with it and I'll never will.

[ShunNakamura]

But I will say this though, meat eaters (strictly) have MUCH higher rates of constipation than those who eat at least a mild serving of vegetables and fruit. It tells me the body can absorb much of the meat and break it down so our body can use whatever it digests, but just because your body can digest it doesn't mean it's good for you.

True enough. But it is an indication that your body was meant to get something from it. Elsewise you wouldn't absorb as much as you do from meat. But as you said that doesn't always mean it is healthy. We could very well be meant to eat only one or two kinds of meats. Or perhaps like other primates our meat should be purely insects and the like. Lots of possibilites. All we know is we absorb much of what is in meat and that we use it in some way or another. That and some meats are better for us then others. Namely I see fish and poultry often listed as healthier meats. That and now that I remember insects are supposedly REALLY good for you as well.

Not just skin health that has led me to vegetarianism, but physical and overall health. I have a much easier time maintaining my six-pack in my pesco-vegetarian diet than I do eating meat. Whenever I'm tempted to eat meat I do one thing: I lift up my shirt and look in the mirror and say "God, I'm probably a narcist for doing this but look at that 6 pack...do I want to throw something that 90% of the population wants away by eating that 2 lb. angus burger?"

Okay, maybe it's an odd way to stay pesco-vegetarian, but it works! Besides, anyone conscious about their health has to be a little bit of a narcist.

Hey! In wrestling we are taught whatever it takes is what it takes. Just go and do it. Odd or no if it works it works and just do it.

As for six pack. Me? I could care less. I actually prefer it with my muscles being hidden by a thin(quite thin actually(or at least what used to be thin. Not sure if I have put on weight lately)) layer of fat. It is fun in wrestling. The guy will look at me(we do look one another over) and I can just see his thoughts going "this little pudgy guy is at my weight class? Heh this will be an easy one". For an average american I appear fairly thin. But for a wrestler I look quite heavy set. Then when we get out on the mat the guy realizes his six pack is no better then what muscle I have hidden under the fat. Works as a good opener. or finisher. I can just lead them astray thinking I am weaker then what I am and then smash them when thier gaurd falls. I still ain't sure why I got what muscle I do though. I am a computer geek. I don't work out, cept during wrestling season. So WHY do I got enough muscle to match power with a guy 20lbs or more heavier then me? Of course it only happens on the mat. But I am not very aggressive on the mat either. So why? Guh... I am rambling on. Forget I went astray.

One more thing. I never liked steak. Even when I was eating meat, I avoided steak because it just doesn't taste that good. I never saw anything in it and while people would throw $20 to eat it. I never understood people's obsession with it and I'll never will.

I don't really dislike steak. As long as it is only once in a while(once a month or two) then I like it just fine. But my body my mind/body will go bleec if people expect me to eat it two nights in a row or some such. Heck it does the same thing with hamburger. Turkey though I can eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, and eat. Which is why I think my weight bounced on me. I probably downed over 7lbs of turkey easy in one day a week or so ago. and I haven't checked my weight since then.

However, 20$ is obscene. I definately would only eat it once in a blue moon at that price. And only then when my body gave me a craving for it. Heck, I don't eat cake a whole lot because my body does a tummy bounce when I think of it. And other times it will tell me to gobble it down. Coach thinks my body self-regulates itself since I almost always stay in the same weight range no matter what I eat. Thus if I need sugar my body tells me to eat cake or something like that. If however it doesn't need it that type of sugary food will make me throwup if I eat any more then a bit. Sucks too, cause I like cake


Edit- For fun I decided to quote from that WebMD site. I found it kind of funny.

Your current weight is higher than the scientifically established norms. This corresponds to a Body Mass Index (BMI) of 25. You should weigh no more than 155 pounds.

Your target weight is 155 pounds. Once you reach your desired weight, your new BMI will be 25, which is still higher than the norm. You should make a determined effort to achieve your initial target weight as a the first step towards good health.

heh, first they say I shouldn't weigh more then 155.. then they say when I drop down I will still be higher then the norm? Ah well, I can still overpower my friends, and that is fine with me.

and if my target weight is what I weigh when I actually exercise a bit

Your target weight is 145 pounds. Since your current weight is above the norms, it is advisable to lose some weight. Once you reach 145 pounds, your new BMI will be 23.4 and you will be within the normal weight range.

I take it said the first one because I am right on the line. But I dunno. I found it funny. maybe I just got a weird since of humour?

[ThroneofDravaris]

ThroneofDravaris: Yeaaaaah, it can be pretty pricey, depending on what you want to eat.

Wow, I really hope you misinterpreted my post...