FF:VII Advent Children - Opinions Thread

[Loony BoB]

I've renamed this thread so that hopefully we won't have as many "I just say FFVII:AC and think it is really cool" threads. Might be optimistic, but it can only help make the thread a bit more obvious. Anyway, I thought FFVII:AC was okay, but I never took it as the be-all and end-all of things to look forward to. I guess if you don't get your hopes up then it's pretty cool to look at and it has an average storyline. But as I said, I didn't make a huge deal about it so that way I wasn't as disappointed like some people have been. I'd give it a 3.5/5 or a 4/5 if you take into account that it's 100% computer generated as a stronger point than the film itself.

[a nirvana fan]

I think this is one of my greatest films I've EVER seen, I really enjoyed watching it.

[Crysis]

i think the storyline realy sucked... the salvation of this film is the special effects, the music and the fights...

[lone_berserker]

Yea. I strongley agree with you. The special effects are the catylist and salvator of the general populus XD.

[Ishin Ookami]

Not really, I thought the CGI was pretty inconsistent. Tifa's fight with Loz being one of the low moments where it felt like they were low on actual frames they could animate with and had to use camera angles/pans, slow mo/speed frame shots and motion blur effects to hide the incredibly poor animation. shots with the crew moving or walking look okay, but actual fight scenes I found often look stiff and incredibly unrealistic. Im talking below first season of reboot quality of cgi at times.

I understand square's target audience with this film, but I wish they had actually written a halfway decent script. This films plot was so lowbrow and fanboyish that it makes the script for Deuce Bigalow: European Gigalow look like Einsteins theory of relativity, written the LONG way, by comparison.

[The Devourer Of Worlds]

I'm not sure what kind of insane CGI movies you've seen, but I don't think I've seen anything as lifelike as AC in the past. The only movie that comes to mind is TSW, and that goes from 'incredible' to 'FFVIII FMV's' every so often. It seems silly to nitpick when no one has done any better.

[cloud_doll]

Advent Children was a pretty cool movie, but it was mostly just fighting scenes. I think they should've added more to the story then it would of been more interesting. But it was pretty good other than that and was a comeback from Spirits Within

[sephiroth the dark angel]

i think the storyline realy sucked...

yes true but chopping of buildings with swords didn't suck did it?
though you're right the story line sucked...a bit.

[Ishin Ookami]

I'm not sure what kind of insane CGI movies you've seen, but I don't think I've seen anything as lifelike as AC in the past. The only movie that comes to mind is TSW, and that goes from 'incredible' to 'FFVIII FMV's' every so often. It seems silly to nitpick when no one has done any better.

I'm sorry but no effing way. Take a look at the scene I mentioned, where Tifa fights with Loz. Using slow motion and fast forward frames to enhance action scenes is a common trick used in asian cinema, but THAT particular scene overused both effects to create something that looked akin to an epileptic seizure. Than take a look at the actual animation, it is incredibly choppy looking, with major moves taking place either off screen, in the fast frame effect, or covered up with the blur effect of Loz moving quickly. In the deciding series of moves, Loz throws the bench, and tifa punches the bench, with loz SUDDENLY appearing in front of her crouched and ready to unload with his weapon. You hear the weapon unload and then see tifa on the ground, but dont see the actual action taking place. THAT is awful animation values. Sure resolution, skin tone, and lighting effects looked nice, some of the best ever. But the actual quality of the ANIMATION itself, the way the characters moved just looked incredibly unnatural. In most of the hand to hand combat scenes, the animators again make use of the speed frame effect/slow mo effect to gratuitous levels, but often the characters just move with a very jerky and stiff rate. Like marionettes rather than characters that have to feel inertia, or physical consequences.

I can see why people will like AC, it features the cast of the first final fantasy the majority of the western world ever played. But looking past gratuitous fan service the dialogue and story is ludicrous:

I want to be forgiven. I want to be forgiven. I want to be forgiven. Can sins be forgiven?

I never tested it.

Test?

The animation is often sub-par.

The direction is incompetent.

and WTF is up with them looking for Jenova's Neck? Thats one part of the body that wouldnt even house any DNA. DNA is contained in the genetic structure, not the skeleton. Her stomach, her heart, her head, hell I'd even settle for an eye. But her NECK?

It's not like its a total piece of crap, The turks were fun as hell, rufus had a shining moment with kadaj, vincent and yuffie have a good line here and there, but it really is too little and too late.

[The Devourer Of Worlds]

I just watch the scene again, and I really don’t see it. Apart from the fact that most of there motions seem to defy the laws of gravity, there really isn’t anything ‘unnatural’ about the way they move. I’m pretty sure the scene you are talking about was purposely made like that for stylistic effect, rather than to cover graphical limitations.

I agree with you about the dialogue though; I really hope that it was due to a terrible translation attempt.

[seow]

Found it to be quite entertaining, for someone who never had the chance to play the FF series of games and has never owned a ps before.

A little search on the net filled me in on the characters etc.

[Dignified Pauper]

Not enough plot.

I'd like to know where Kadaj and the gang came from, but this may be in the book that bridges the gap between VII and AC. Squall of Seed would probably know a lot more about this.

Where is he when we need him most!

[Russielloyd]

There 3 people created from Sephiroth from when Cloud beat him at the northern crater. Dont get the opinion that their 3 personalities that Sephiroth possesed because there not. They are 3 different personalities with the will of Sephiroth.

[Masamune·1600]

and WTF is up with them looking for Jenova's Neck? Thats one part of the body that wouldnt even house any DNA. DNA is contained in the genetic structure, not the skeleton. Her stomach, her heart, her head, hell I'd even settle for an eye. But her NECK?

They aren't looking for JENOVA's neck. That's just a particularly bad fan translation.

I'd like to know where Kadaj and the gang came from, but this may be in the book that bridges the gap between VII and AC.

On the Way to a Smile makes no mention of the SHM.

Regarding the origins of Kadj, Loz, and Yazoo, here's a brief explanation as to the primary plot device of AC.

Kadaj is a Remnant of Sephiroth. This means that, as was also the case with Loz and Yazoo, he was formed when Sephiroth's body was blown apart following the final chain of events in the original game. Having been formed from Sephiroth, the three SHM are Sephiroth, in a sense, and instinctually desire to merge with JENOVA cells, which Kadaj does.

Sephiroth is, effectively, almost indistinguishable from JENOVA, as he was given JENOVA cells while still in the womb, and has thus become the conscious embodiment of JENOVA's immutable aims. The aims become more complicated in Sephiroth, but stay true to the quintessential "needs" of JENOVA.

This matters because Sephiroth's will is more important to his identity than his body. His identity is bound up in his personal perception--the silver haired man with the long sword--but the shape-altering qualities of JENOVA can replicate this completely (as seen with the Sephiroth forms encountered throughout the original game). His will, however, even though identical in fundamental goal to JENOVA, is unique, and therefore is necessary for JENOVA to fully manifest the form of Sephiroth. In being Remnants, Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo also manifested the thoughts/will of Sephiroth. Hence, Kadaj and the others are unknowingly subject (to a degree) to Sephiroth, embodied in their desire to bring about "Reunion." When, then, Kadaj merges his physical body (the biological material of Sephiroth, and, more importantly, the manifestation of Seph's thoughts and will), it is possible for a fully real Sephiroth to again realize himself on Gaia.

What this means, in the long run, is that Sephiroth can only truly die when all JENOVA cells are eliminated, and/or when it becomes impossible for him to manifest his will on Gaia. Some JENOVA cells likely still exist following AC, but it seems unlikely that there is any obvious way for Sephiroth to use them to again manifest himself.

[Ishin Ookami]

Very detailed Masamune, but if it is not mentioned in the novella, than just WHERE are you getting this info? it certainly isnt mentioned ANYWHERE in the film.

They aren't looking for JENOVA's neck. That's just a particularly bad fan translation.

So far Ive seen two subtitled versions, the fansub, and one released by square in japan. Considering it was done by someone who's first language isnt english, I'd expect a incongruity here or there, but in both versions it is her neck. What body part did you find they we're hunting for?

I agree with you about the dialogue though; I really hope that it was due to a terrible translation attempt.

Dont get your hopes up. Even with a more flowing english translation on the localized release coming up in march, AC is still going to have A dead church girl resolving every major crisis in the film, which I still hate. One of my favorite american cartoons from the 90's, Exosquad, is a good example of HOW to let the proverbial $#!^ hit the fan. Allow me to get a bit off topic in order to make an example.

In this show its the future, humanity has terraformed mars and venus, the homeworlds are now at peace, but a new race they created as workers, The Neo Sapiens is less than happy. They were initially created to mine Mars, which had a less than hospitable climate even after terraforming. The Neo's rebelled and were defeated by the Exo-Fleets use of E-Frames (think the robotic suit Ripley piloted in Aliens, except loaded for war). Now 50 years later the Neo Sapiens have been secretly building a massive war fleet, using their more advanced intellects to make their E-frames more advanced as well as their space fleet. When the Exo-fleet is called away to deal with escalating pirate attacks, the Neo's attack the home worlds, and totally and effectively subjugate humanity. The Exo-fleet tries to respond, but instead they are outnumbered and outclassed, they manage to barely escape. But a year later they once again engage the Neo's warfleet, and are almost wiped out. 50 ships go in, 3 come out. escape pods are massacred and shot out of space, thousands die. GET IT!

This is how you build drama in a story, let people die, let people get hurt. Before the second battle between the space fleets, a Exo-fleet officer disobeys orders and attempts to find out what happened to her family on Venus when the Neo's took over. Venus was once a lush farm world, but since the Neo's took over the crops were burned and the left over human populace are now starving to death as they hide in caves. Drama, tragedy, death, It's called dramatic buildup. My issue is that AC has none of this. The bad guys join the lifestream (thanks Aeries), Sephiroth is taken out Wily Cyotee style, but you know he'll be back. Geostigma is cured (thanks Aeries) Shin Bahamut is defeated (thanks Aeries) Cloud is resurrected (thanks Aeries) Children are tended too (thanks Aeries) everyone lives happily ever after.

I'm all for mega happy endings, but howsabout we see a little drama, make the audience, as well as the players in the drama, sweat a bit before kicking it with the saccharine denouncement? Im sorry but a flowing english translation isnt going to change the fact that AC doesnt just make use of plot contrivance, IT IS PLOT CONTRIVANCE! Every dramatic resolution hinges on a person who's been dead for two years, rather than letting some drama be established. Sorry, but it's bloody impossible to paint over something like this.

I just watch the scene again, and I really don’t see it. Apart from the fact that most of there motions seem to defy the laws of gravity, there really isn’t anything ‘unnatural’ about the way they move. I’m pretty sure the scene you are talking about was purposely made like that for stylistic effect, rather than to cover graphical limitations.

What bothers me is the lack of weight or actual impact behind the animation. In Dragonball Z (to use a popular example) battles have impact due to limbs being torn off, bones being broken and/or dislocated, punches/kicks leaving bruises, and the actual effect of faces being distorted brutally when a particularly solid blow is landed. Ditto for all the best hong kong films. During extended fight scenes you can see actors becoming flushed, breathing hard, bruises, coughing up blood (blood pellets, but still, it creates a good effect). In advent however, there really is little impact. I mean even in Reboot, which was the first show done entirely in CGI, there was still a certain amount of impact, physics, and intensity used in all the action scenes. Advent children makes use of none of these principles, the action is just sorta... there. Bikes flip as is if they were origami boats. Cloud runs up the sides of tree's and hover's in the air deflecting kadaj's blows as with no discernible effort. Sephiroth pummels cloud and unleashes dizzying displays of agility and power, yet for all the impact it shows, I could be watching two sock puppets beat each other over the head.

The fight with Tifa really is a prime example. First of all, the use of bullet time and and fast forward frame effects was way overdone. Yes I know the matrix made these effects popular in the west, but the thing is Yuen Woo Ping has been in the business for almost 30 years. He knows how to use these effects for maximum impact. Nomura on the other hand, is a utter hack without the experience and talent needed to use these techniques effectively, and the result is a poorly directed fight scene, with animation that really does convey little impact (yet for those paying attention, tifa busted out every one of her limit breaks during that fight scene, So once again, there is something for the Fans to drool over besides her enhanced rack). I really think the animators could have done better, but I credit this flaw in the animation once again to Nomura's direction. He was aiming too much to imitating the style of other mediums that he neglected to try to instill a sense of depth into the animation. And IMO, a lack of depth is AC's chief offence.