I think a little part of me just died. This thread is the murderer.
I think a little part of me just died. This thread is the murderer.
Formerly: Autumn Rain
Square is still pushing to get a limited theatrical release for AC outside of japan, and personally I hope they succeed. Not so much I want to see this story telling black hole (note: thats a bad thing) on the big screen, but I would enjoy watching the movie critics tear this pitiful attempt of a film apart.
Yes, its true there is very little real plot in this film. Plot development and resolutions are contrived at best, and flat out hackneyed most of the time. Michael Bay gets alot of flack for the lack of solid plotting in his films, but I can honestly say Armageddon or Con Air beats AC's storytelling direction all hollow. I know there are alot of fans out there that fell in love with FFVII, but put aside the fanboy love for a second (hey, us star wars fans have to do it when it comes to the prequel trilogy) and just fess up. The plot was lame and half assed would be a compliment, considering Nomura didnt even try that hard to build a solid story.
As for the action scenes, I swear It feels as though they fed some six year old kid with ADD 12 bowls of cocoa puffs interveniously and put him in charge of the direction. There really is no point, flow, or an ounce solid storytelling or drama in the action, just hack, chop, jump, lather, rinse, repeat. And if you've been watching Hong Kong kung fu flicks or martial arts anime for any sustained period of time in your life, you've already seen all there is in this film a dozen times over. So yah, there really isnt a whole lot of originality, creativity, heart, inspiration, solid direction, decent writing, or anything worth getting all hot and bothered about. Just alot of very derivative action scenes
Kazushige Nojima, not Tetsuya Nomura, was responsible for the Advent Children scenario(s).Originally Posted by Ishin Ookami
In your view.
We've all watched this in subtitles right...and those Bein subs are crap, i got totally confused by them, Hir-subs are better.
Anyways, though people have watched this movies in subtitles, you read it though you cant still wonder what the hell is going on, because your trying to read and watch at the same time. Now if you hear it to understand it, you'll be suprized on how much you missed out, this has happened to me while watching Sonic X. This could be a cause in some people missing out on parts of the story. If you get what i mean in all that.
I won't say it's the best movie ever, because its not. But I will say I enjoyed it more than any asians flying on strings action flick. At least the weapons didn't bend when they were swung >_>; (Note, I hated Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Hero, and suffered through watching both, neither of which had much plot, and the action was horrendous. Though Hero was very beautiful.) At least its not repetitive and contrived like DBZ and has a lot more plot and character. At least actions vary from fight to fight ^_^' So no, I've seen those things, and haven't seen all this before.
so swords bending you have a problem with, but a mechannic and a street thug (barrett and cid) being able to leap several stories up to give cloud a boost your totally fine with? And the whole "lets kidnap midgars children so we can watch them drink diarrhea polluted water, leap like zombie ninja's and then stand around waiting to get blitzed by bahamut" is your idea of pain free story arcs? Can you at least be honest enough to admit your bias or do you prefer to let others see it for themselves?
Ive seen CONSIDERABLY much more hong kong action flicks then those two films, the whole sword bending, people flying, thing is just part of the whole wuxia (fantasy) vibe, and if its not your thing, then it aint. though I have to wonder how you can swallow Final Fantasy's wooden CGI of cloud and co doing the same thing.
Also those who have been familiar with the genre for years agree on the uneven-ness of the you mentioned, in the sense that crouching tiger had a great story (taken from a later chapter in a series of old novels,) yet most of the kung fu wasnt all that great, save for the intense girl on girl fight scene near the end, which almost made up for the lameness of the earlier fight scenes.
Hero on the other hand, was a bit too "out there", story wise. even for even wuxia. The whole "we fought in our minds thing" was weak and the whole spiel about seeing Broken Swords ideals in his calligraphy, was also pretty far fetched. All myself and most others who can read chinese saw was the word "Sword". Though the kung fu itself was alot more intense and well choreographed.
Point is, though these films are definitely better funded, they are not the pinnacle, far from it. Its only because of the huge financial backing that they got any cred outside of HK at all, most of the really good stuff you need to hit up a HK film review site or go on reliable word of mouth. The whole bit with cloud being tossed, Last fight scene in Iron monkey did the same thing (just horizontally). The fight in the forest reminded me of a clumsy re-enactment of the ethereal forest fight between Li Mu Bai and Jen in crouching tiger. the fight through the tunnel could have been pulled from ANY John Woo HK flick, and you wouldnt be able to tell the difference. Tifa's fight against Loz? Yeesh, now we are REALLY getting redundant. I could name twenty films that have some harder hitting and more brutal "girl kicks guys ass" scenario. Wing Chun (michelle yeoh) takes the cake though with one fight ending with the poor bastard getting his genitals burnt to a crisp, AFTER he got his ass kicked good, just cuz he was harassing michelle's in flick gal pal. Hows that for girl power?
Only fight scene that didnt remind me of something else I'd seen was the girl on girl fight at the end, with cloud and sepherioth (oh come on, like you havnt heard THAT one before!). And I found that was the weakest fight of the whole film. Seph parries clouds every attack all through the fight, then just stands there and cries out (NANI?) just before cloud pulls another limit break out of his G-string panties. Why didnt they just have Han solo blinded from hibernation sickness hit him over the head with a stick? What, not quite contrived enough?
bias free I can honestly say this was not a good film in any sense. Im part of the old school crowd that found FFVII to be in every qualititative way, inferior to FFVI. and if AC is what we can expect in terms of quality, from the whole FFVII revival thats approaching in Before Crisis, Dirge of Cerberus, and all the other FFVII stuff, I'll just skip it all or wait for to find it in the bargin bins.
lets start a new topic then
new topic then
wow Ishin, I too am part of the old school, the group that loves the old games more than the new, I LOVE FFVI, more than any other game.
But you have a problem here. Stop analyzing it like it's some super huge hollywood picture. I'm sorry, I saw exactly what I EXPECTED from the film. If you expected anymore than a lose story and a bunch of action scenes, that's your own fault. It started as what, 15-20minutes? then it got a lot of hype and people got interested, so they expanded and expanded. Plus, when you see a CGI film, or animated film, it's easier to believe the impossible like kids falling down and random guys jumping 7 stories, as opposed to when you see live action.
Your problem is, you were expecting a real movie, and there's nothing we can do about that. I wasn't like on edge to see this film, but it was worth waiting that long for them to lengthen it, because I enjoyed watching it... it WAS entertaining. Anything special.... no, completely horrible, also no. It entertained me, which is more than I can say for some things.
THE JACKEL
Yeah, Ishin Ookami, shut up, your starting to get on my tits now. Stop going on like a grumpy old man! It's boring now.
hey, I didnt say it wasnt without its good parts, I so totally loved every scene with reno and rude. and I swear I dont know how the same writer could come up with that horrid "kids get brainwashed" subplot, then do something clever like Reno and Rude making "yo momma" jokes then pummeling the seph clones while their busy sulking. I also want to see more of Rufus, as I thought he was cool the way he ended up punking Kadaj. Ive actually reccommended Viewing AC to some friends who were harder on FFVII (all shots aside, it was an alright RPG) then myself on the basis that if they are going to criticize the film, they should at least view it just to see what worked for them, and what didnt. As well as viewing the great stuff with the turks.
But um, yea. everything else just made my head hurt, or bored me. And russelloyed, the same rules of logic and respect that allows you to like the film and speak of those reasons, allows me to dislike the film and speak of it as well. Your gonna have to come up with something other then "stone cold said so" if you want to hear the last of it. Creepy terminology such as "yer gettin on me tits" will only make me shudder in disgust when I read your posts.
But yah, the thing that REALLY gets me knickers in a twist (that one was for you russell
The problem is you're not voicing your opinion. You're trying to debate people's opinion. You're going to be barking at a wall in the persuasion department. People make up their own minds about things. As to your question, yes, it's a lot easier to make cg seem to "fly" naturally than it is to make real live humans seem to fly naturally without matrix style effects. And honestly, I have no idea why they don't use special effects. Strings are not special effects, and they totally destroy the effect they're trying to create. Along with the whole bendy sword thing. I just can't get into wuxia films because they seem so fake based on the reality they're trying to create. It has humans. They gotta work a lot harder to make it look real. In a cg movie it's ALL simulated. It's all fake but they can create their own reality, and therefor things can seem a lot more real based on that reality because the rules of human gravity and stuff don't apply because it's not humans on a string. Its no different than a cartoon. Which can do things and look a lot better than huamans on strings as well.
With all of its deep plot and beauty its a shame Spirits Withins makers never actually figured out how entertainment works. The one thing the movie really lacked and it could never be much of a movie without it.But yah, the thing that REALLY gets me knickers in a twist (that one was for you russell
Actually, the CGI in Advent Children had its moments where it was great, and others where it just looked very poor. In some moments of the fight in the forest I swore I was looking at puppets. I can watch Old school CGI such as Reboot or Toy story and still be entertained, so I'd like to think my standards arent absuredly high.
As for making humans look like their flying, Its not flying, just long and high leaps using chi (spiritual energy channelled into physical acts, its alot like the whole Star Wars "Force Thing".). I agree it looks fake, but Ive seen enough of it and have gotten into it enough that I really dont mind. wuxia has its own mythology and rules of physical and spiritual princibles and the genre sticks to them for the most part (Hero and house of Flying Daggers being exceptions where the writers stretched things a bit too far). I dont so much mind the flying in AC, its that if they are going to "Borrow" the wuxia rules, I wish they would have stuck with all of them to keep some semblence of logic, in Crouching Tiger, You never saw Lo do any great leaps (which is all it really is, not flying) because he has NO special spiritual training. In the same way I can buy Tifa, Yuffie, and cloud being able to defy gravity due to their training. vincent I can buy because he has supernatural powers. RedXIII I can believe because he is a creature that has implied innate magical properties (I just have issues with him being able to TOSS cloud) but CID and BARRETT? uh uh. NOPE! Sorry! No WAY! They should not have been able to get that high themselves without a bit of support seeing as how they have NO special training whatsoever. Its stuff like that that bothers me a little because crafting a universe and world that is believeable, with actual laws that cannot be defied, is all part of good fantasy writing. i dont mind different rules because its fantasy after all, but just make those rules make a little bit of sense and stick with them. AC failed to do that, and its just one of the weaknesses that bother me.
One of the things Im VERY picky about is the quality of writing. Im not asking that this be up to the works of dickens mind you, but I am expecting a certain sense that the writer had something in mind when he penned the tale besides $$$ signs and the phrase, there's a sucker born every minute. Advent Children really strikes me as a soulless product that was made by money hungry corp execs and talentless hacks rather then by people who had something resembling a story in mind and wanted to tell it. therefore I agree heartily that it is not at all worth waiting for. My apologies if I offend anyone, Im not angry at anyone on the board (not even you russell) but rather Im ticked at square for letting go of sakaguchi and making nomura their new top director. Ive just never seen nomura as having any real talent as a director or character designer, and I just wish square would find someone who actually has a creative bone in their body rather then someone like Nomura who "Borrows" concepts and reworks them a bit and calls it his own work.
Depends on what your entertained by. I loved sakaguchi's use of symbolism and tightly written dialouge. The scene where aki was mentioning the fourth spirit being a dying little girl who was ready to accept death just gave you such a sense at how hopeless and sad the world had become, and how empathetic she was to the world around her. The writing did so much in so little time, which I thought was great and very absorbing on a intellectual level. And the Scene where the general is shot by a dying soldier, lifts his hands from the wound as its covered in blood and looks up and see's Hein beyond his bloody hand just sent chills down my spine. It wasnt at all a commercial film, but I thought it was something that was made with alot more heart, soul, and intellect then Mummy Returns, which I passed up to go see it a second time while it was in theatres.
Last edited by Ishin Ookami; 12-10-2005 at 02:18 AM.
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