United States: One Nation under ...??...

[Pant Leg Eater from the Bad World]

OK, I'm not actually going too read through this thread due to how big it is, so I'm just gonna post my thoughts and go from there.

The USA was founded on the belief that all people deserved equality of religion. Back then Athiest/Agnosticism was not very popular and was considered not good. It wasn't considered bad, but not good either. But still, this country was essentially founded by people who believe in God. Get over yourselves.

EDIT:

But, if you don't believe in god, there is no point in saying it. Religion and allegience to your country should not be treated as if it goes hand in hand, which is what the current pledge does.

No, it doesn't. This country was,as said above, formed under God, AKA, many equality wanting religious fanatics. I don't believe in any sort of god, but I say the pledge to give my allegiance to the country that once was, and hopefully will become again.

[DMKA]

Though it was cool when it was my turn to hold up the flag in kindergarten.

Holy crap, I remember that. It was awesome.

The last time I said the pledge was when I went to Boys State in the summer before my senior year of high school. I didn't bother to think about it then because I was far to scared of the brainwashing I saw happening before my eyes.

[Karl]

this is old news, a bunch of people over the past few years have been trying to change that line, mostly athiests, the thing is tho, u just gotta stfu and deal with it, dont bitch about things u cant change

[yingyang]

I so remember holding the flag in kindergarden! Though, I think I did make it drop to the floor once. I was yelled at for that ;_;

The thing is... it's a great argument. How far can we let religion go? Where's the line between reasonable and unreasonable?

[Madame Adequate]

I'm with those who think the pledge itself is a bigger problem than any particular part thereof.

Now, the pledge is fine if you're taking office, or become a police officer, or something like that.

Nobody else should be under any obligation or duress to say it though.

[Karl]

if your a citizen of this country you should say it, if you dont and you dont feel that this country is good enough for you then do everyone who is enjoying freedom a favor and get the hell out, by this i mean im sick of hearing people bitch and moan about whats WRONG with the country rather than whats right. the government cant make everyone happy and you couldnt do any better.

[DMKA]

if your a citizen of this country you should say it, if you dont and you dont feel that this country is good enough for you then do everyone who is enjoying freedom a favor and get the hell out, by this i mean im sick of hearing people bitch and moan about whats WRONG with the country rather than whats right. the government cant make everyone happy and you cou;dnt do any better.

Yes, because we should all just sit back and not try to change anything. We should still have slaves, women should have no rights, ect.

If you'd actually look at how that got into the pledge in the first place you should be pissed it's there since you love America so much. It was stuck in there for propaganda purposes, and wasn't originally there. It completely defiles the pledge in more than one way.

[Karl]

i dont care how it got there, i dont say the pledge or be some patriotic mindless moron, but i also dont go bitchin about the way things are, people always sayin like o this and this and this and this is wrong with the nation but it doesnt effect them in any way, saying the pledge doesnt effect anyone. if you dont beleive in it, dont say it, simple as that, this isnt a dictatorship, ur not gonna be killed for not sayin it, and most people here dont have to say it, no job u go to is gonna make u say the pledge unless ur goin into the military or somethin, if a school makes you say the pledge, just stand up and keep ur mouth shut, no big deal.

[nik0tine]

I find it a bit funny that people dub saying "one nation under god" as brainwashing. Yes, fear the 1950's attempt to breach the barriers of communism. I know I'd be afraid for my kids

But it is brainwashing and thats what it's origional intent was in the first place. If you acknowledge god, how can you be a communist? You can't, and so by forcing children to acknowledge god every single day it was hoped that Childrens belief in god would be reinforced.

[Loony BoB]

You guys have to say it? Seriously? What happens if you all just don't? Do they give you detention for exercising your right to remain silent?

I never had to say anything in New Zealand as far as I know - but I think I have to pledge my allegiance to the crown if I want to become a British citizen.

[Karl]

But it is brainwashing and thats what it's origional intent was in the first place. If you acknowledge god, how can you be a communist? You can't, and so by forcing children to acknowledge god every single day it was hoped that Childrens belief in god would be reinforced.

thats stupid, thats like saying no communist citizens have religeons and only americans are christians

[edczxcvbnm]

You guys have to say it? Seriously? What happens if you all just don't? Do they give you detention for exercising your right to remain silent?

Yes. Just as you get detention if you swear despite freedom of speech.

Because you are forced to say the pledge in schools and stuff more people know that than the national anthem. I admit I don't know the national anthem except for the last part.

"PLAY BALL!"

[Loony BoB]

I know "Oh say can you see" and that's it. But it's not my country. I never had to do anything like that in NZ, although I do know the anthem.

[Lindy]

What IS the New Zealand national anthem?

No matter what it is, I bet it's a damned sight better than "God save the [Gender Specific Monarchial Title Here]".

[Loony BoB]

God defend New Zealand. Most NZ'ers will only know the first verse of the English version by heart, and maybe the first verse of the Maori version.

EDIT: I never read that Wikipedia page before. I find it amusing that there's a possibility of our anthem containing a reference to a beer brand.