Right on!!!!Originally Posted by nik0tine
Right on!!!!
The country was also founded by people who lived before numerous scientific advancements. Should we go back to accepting that a pile of dirty clothes magically creates rats? The Founders believing in god is absolutely irrelevent. What the majority of people believed over 200 years ago is irrelevent.The USA was founded on the belief that all people deserved equality of religion. Back then Athiest/Agnosticism was not very popular and was considered not good. It wasn't considered bad, but not good either. But still, this country was essentially founded by people who believe in God. Get over yourselves.
Anyway, I agree that the Pledge shouldn't be forced in schools, period.
It's not.
I've been though five different school systems in three different states since I started Grade School, and not one of them has forced all of its students to say the Pledge. The fact remains that if a student chooses not to say the Pledge, or any part of it, they don't have to. They have to be respectful enough to shut up while the rest of the class says it, but they can't be forced to say it. And if a student is forced to say it, they can present that issue to the School Board and probably get a teacher fired, as it's illegal to force their students to recite the Pledge.
So, again. You don't like it, sit down, shut up, don't do it. Bitching about it won't help your cause, it'll just make you look desperate and picky, so when you have something more important, your fight will be marred by the memory of the stupid crap you fought about before.
I figured it'd be God Save The Kiwi Bird...God defend New Zealand.Most NZ'ers will only know the first verse of the English version by heart, and maybe the first verse of the Maori version.
EDIT: I never read that Wikipedia page before. I find it amusing that there's a possibility of our anthem containing a reference to a beer brand.
Sasquatch: What you say is true, but it remains the case that many students feel pressured into saying the Pledge. Now, for my part, I think they should be strong enough to resist, but that doesn't excuse said pressure.
Speaking of national anthems, I just noticed that in the English national Anthem of Canada meantions God, yet in the French version, there is no meantion of God...
its not like it says one nation under THE ONE AND ONLY ALMIGHTY CHRISTIAN GOD FATHER OF JESUS
the only people the anthem or any crap mentioning god should offend is atheists in which case thats their own choice to deny religion and they just have to deal with it, the country was founded on freedom of religion not lack of religion
You missed it, then:
(bolded all religious references, bold+underline where it says "God").
1. O Canada! Terre de nos aïeux,
Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux!
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
Il sait porter <b>la croix</b>!
Ton histoire est une épopée
Des plus brillants exploits.
Et ta valeur, de <b>foi</b> trempée,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.
2. Sous l'oeil de <b><u>Dieu</u></b>, près du fleuve géant,
Le Canadien grandit en espérant,
Il est né d'une race fière,
Béni fut son berceau;
Le ciel a marqué sa carrière
Dans ce monde nouveau.
Toujours guidé par <b>Sa</b> lumière,
Il gardera l'honneur de son drapeau,
Il gardera l'honneur de son drapeau.
3. De son patron, précurseur du vrai <b><u>Dieu</u></b>,
Il porte au front l'auréole de feu;
Ennemi de la tyrannie,
Mais plein de loyauté,
Il veut garder dans l'harmonie
Sa fière liberté.
Et par l'effort de son génie,
Sur notre Sol asseoir la vérité,
Sur notre Sol asseoir la vérité!
4. Amour sacré du trône et de l'autel
Remplis nos coeurs de ton souffle immortel.
Parmi les races étrangères
Notre guide est <b>la foi</b>;
Sachons être un peuple de frères,
Sous le joug de la loi;
Et répétons comme nos pères
Le cri vainqueur: «<b>Pour le Christ et le Roi</b>»
Le cri vainqueur: «<b>Pour le Christ et le Roi</b>».
Edit: back to the topic. Here in France, kids are taught how to (badly) sing the Marseillaise, which, if you actually pay attention to what it says, are pretty strong words. At any rate, words only have as much power on you as you let them have. Some of you also make me sad by your total lack of faith in people being able to think for themselves when they grow up and choose if they want to mean what they said as kids.
And then there is Death
You misinterpreted what I said. I meant that public schools should not have a policy of teachers leading the Pledge, period. Indoctrination is not a good thing. You can't expect a 6 or 7-year-old kid to have the principles to go against what his teacher and friends say is right.
If one's love and loyalty are true, there's no need to mention it all the time. I don't wake up every day saying "I love mum, I love dad". I never went to school and said "I love my country" either. That would be disgraceful for all the people that lived and died, showing their love for their country and their fellow men and women, for what it really was.
It strikes me as freakishly fake and cosmetic (not to mention reminiscint of dark regimes) to 'pledge allegiance' to one's country. It should be something much, much deeper. It should be incorporated into your mindset that you are alive and well because of certain elements and certain people.
The most kids are asked (and not demanded) here that is even remotely close to a 'pledge of allegiance', is writing soldiers letters on holidays and giving them baskets with sweets and various other things soldiers might find useful (I got a bar of soap, among other things , some kid must think soldiers are really poor and dirty XD). For me, that's really all you need... action and not words, asking and not demanding, comprehension and understanding through actual thought and care - not automated rituals.
As for that whole 'under God' and 'In God We Trust' - I say, take it out. It's blasphemy anyway, so religious people don't like it, and it's incorporating religion into every-day things, so everyone else won't like it either. I fail to see the point.
When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one yourself... when gazing into the abyss, bear in mind that the abyss also gazes into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
The rightful owner of this Ciddie can kiss my arse! :P
How about this:
" One nation, divided over God..."
THANK YOU!!! I haven't said the pledge in years. Doesn't mean I hate America. Quite the opposite, in fact.Hell, take out the pledge completely. It is no different for American children to say the pledge than it was for Soviet children to "thank" comrade Stalin for all that he had done for them.
So... we should eliminate progress?if your a citizen of this country you should say it, if you dont and you dont feel that this country is good enough for you then do everyone who is enjoying freedom a favor and get the hell out, by this i mean im sick of hearing people bitch and moan about whats WRONG with the country rather than whats right. the government cant make everyone happy and you cou;dnt do any better.
Its a conundrom. Our forefathers were christain, whom wanted to make a haven for freedom to worship. Unfortunatley, their safegaurds to keep the government a christain bases system did not work out too well.
However, forcing people to say God denies them that right to beleive nothing, and taking it out would prolly benifit the atheist movment more. I say we leave it just for tradition! Cheers!
Bipper
Okay, maybe I need to pay a little more attention; it been a few years (bad excuse on my part). Also the French national anthem consists only of the first verse.
i dont care how it got there, i dont say the pledge or be some patriotic mindless moron, but i also dont go bitchin about the way things are, people always sayin like o this and this and this and this is wrong with the nation but it doesnt effect them in any way, saying the pledge doesnt effect anyone.No, you just don't know what the hell you're talking about. "Under God" was added to the pledge to turn people away from communism, because in a communist society there is no religion. I may be wrong, and if I am someone please correct me, but in Soviet Russia you could not worship any religion openly.thats stupid, thats like saying no communist citizens have religeons and only americans are christians
What? xD
The French national anthem consists of all of it. During events, only the beginning is played because it would be way too long otherwise.
And then there is Death
Nic.. you're right. I checked. It says they added it during the space age because they wanted to be as different from the Russian's as possible or something. A
I loved you responce with the poem. I've heard it before.... and I totally agree.
War Angel... what an angel you areIf everyone can, go up and read war angel's post. Good to hear from a soldier.
The Opposite of Love is not Hate. The Opposite of Love is indifference.
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