Firefox 1.5 released! Warning: elitism inside

[Samuraid]

It's a good thing Raist is on the side of Firefox users, otherwise the IE users may have been winning the debate. (either that or the debate would have been dropped a long time ago)

1.5 is downloaded and ready to install as soon as I finish reading all these topics using the handy dandy tabbed browsing that IE doesn't have.

[DMKA]

I've found spyware on my computer that was impossible to get rid of until I uninstalled Firefox. Firefox makes no difference in the amount of spyware I get on a normal basis either. The only reason I use it is for tabbed browsing. The day (if ever) IE adds in tabbed browsing I'll be using it again.

[ZeZipster]

Look, I don't know what kind of life you lead, but I personally have better things to do than "spite" the internet by not using Firefox.

I'll write an autobiography for you sometime then.

I'm using Internet Explorer because I've weighed up the differences, compared them, and I have no reason at all to change from something that works to...something that works, in a different way.

Step to the side, not forward.

It doesn't work that differently. You act like you have to dance around your computer or shoot fire out of your nostrils to get Firefox to work. I've given you a plethora of reasons to change. You've done nothing but ignored me.

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx

Those are some of the fixes IE7 will offer. They're hitting SOME of the big problems. But IE, even after 7 is released, will still be "broken" to some degree.

You've got no idea how much extra work goes into making hacks just to get IE pages to look like their supposed to. You're hindering web advancement and wasting your PERSONAL time on a browsers that's not only slower but also less compatible AND more vulnerible to spyware. If using Firefox is so damn sacreligious to you why don't you try Opera, it might be more similar to IE.

Edit:

I've found spyware on my computer that was impossible to get rid of until I uninstalled Firefox. Firefox makes no difference in the amount of spyware I get on a normal basis either. The only reason I use it is for tabbed browsing. The day (if ever) IE adds in tabbed browsing I'll be using it again.

Oh, you've caught us. We've been lying about all of this spyware stuff the entire time, you see. IT was all a cheap ploy to get you to change, but you've seen through us. All that jibba jabba about ActiveX and ACTUAL STATISTICS TAKEN FROM THOROUGH TESTING OF THE SAME PAGES ON BOTH IE and FIREFOX was all lies. Please don't expose us, please? Why it'd mean Mozilla would lose all the cash they're making from charging people to use Firefox. We wouldn't want that.

[Lindy]

By working "differently" I'm just talking about tabbed vs new windows, or the loading and displaying of pages, it doesn't phase me.

And your reasons, which by the way you've posted only a few, have just been as a whiny developer, "Oh noes, I haf 2do moer work 4 teh paegs ;("

Here's an idea, if you're that intent in making them work in Firefox and that sick of having to do it for IE, stop making them work in IE. I'm sure the world will be CRUSHED at not being able to view your webpages, and then move on happily with more important things.

You've done nothing to try and convince me besides calling me ignorant, when I've clearly stated that I've weighed up things MYSELF and decided. I neither need nor want other people to "convince" me, I have no reason to change, me, personally, not why YOU think I should change. I think the entire world should eat only cheese because cheese is good for you, there's a reason, but you ignored it! Oh no!

I don't care about web advancement, shinier webpages do nothing for me.
I've never wasted my time because of IE, like I said I compared Firefox and IE and found no change in speed.
I've never seen a lack of compatibility with IE and webpages, except for a couple of people's livejournals that I'd never read anyway, oh noes!
I've compared IE and Firefox's spyware protection, I see no difference, and when I have external anti-spy/malware running, why do I need even more anyway?

I'm not using Firefox not to be "awkward" as you seem to assume, it's not "sacrilegious" to use Firefox, but it's what's called a PERSONAL PREFERENCE, you know, when you like something more you use it more.

I like Internet Explorer, I see no difference between it and Firefox, and I prefer IE more.

Now will you stop acting like you're the messiah of the internet and have to "convert the sinners!!!111", I like what I like, you like what you like. You're not "superior" for using Firefox, so stop thinking you are.

[DMKA]

Oh, you've caught us. We've been lying about all of this spyware stuff the entire time, you see. IT was all a cheap ploy to get you to change, but you've seen through us. All that jibba jabba about ActiveX and ACTUAL STATISTICS TAKEN FROM THOROUGH TESTING OF THE SAME PAGES ON BOTH IE and FIREFOX was all lies. Please don't expose us, please? Why it'd mean Mozilla would lose all the cash they're making from charging people to use Firefox. We wouldn't want that.

I never said it doesn't do whatever it is you're claiming it does...nor did I tell you to stop using it. I just know what I've experienced myself, and I've never had all the problems everyone claims to have with IE that I haven't had with Firefox. The unremovable spyware thing is a problem I've actually ONLY experienced with Firefox though.

Again, read carefully: I'm not saying you're lying, or wrong, or anything else; I'm just telling you what I've seen and experienced. So no more putting words in my mouth, kplzthnx.

[rubah]

By making them work in IE as well, that just means we're better people for it ^_^

[ZeZipster]

By working "differently" I'm just talking about tabbed vs new windows, or the loading and displaying of pages, it doesn't phase me.

You don't have to use any of those. Firefox doesn't force tabbed browsing on you, it offers it.

And your reasons, which by the way you've posted only a few, have just been as a whiny developer, "Oh noes, I haf 2do moer work 4 teh paegs ;("

Here's an idea, if you're that intent in making them work in Firefox and that sick of having to do it for IE, stop making them work in IE. I'm sure the world will be CRUSHED at not being able to view your webpages, and then move on happily with more important things.

Yeah, because I actually own a webpage. It wasn't about me, it was about web developers as a whole. You can shrug off the fact that Internet Explorer isn't interpreting code how it's supposed to or you can change and FORCE Microsoft to do actual work, and making a working browser. It's really your choice, I suppose.

I assumed people want a browser that works. But I guess it's not about that, is it? Let's ignore the themes, the extensions, and the live bookmarks on TOP of the fact that Firefox is a working browser.

You've done nothing to try and convince me besides calling me ignorant, when I've clearly stated that I've weighed up things MYSELF and decided. I neither need nor want other people to "convince" me, I have no reason to change, me, personally, not why YOU think I should change. I think the entire world should eat only cheese because cheese is good for you, there's a reason, but you ignored it! Oh no!

I don't care about web advancement, shinier webpages do nothing for me.
I've never wasted my time because of IE, like I said I compared Firefox and IE and found no change in speed.
I've never seen a lack of compatibility with IE and webpages, except for a couple of people's livejournals that I'd never read anyway, oh noes!
I've compared IE and Firefox's spyware protection, I see no difference, and when I have external anti-spy/malware running, why do I need even more anyway?

If you have no reason or interest in changing, why are you here? To cause us grief as people who actually care about WORKING programs?

It's not about shinier webpages, it's about web standards. W3C has been the leader in web standards for some time now and Microsoft has chosen to ignore them. That's downright asinine.

[Lindy]

I'm here because people like you are calling people who use IE ignorant morons and I feel that I at least have some form of right to defend myself over my choice.

But, apparently I'm not allowed, so what's the point?

I care about working programs, if IE wasn't working for me, I wouldn't be using it. Can you understand that? It works, it displays webpages, that's all I need and thats why I use it.

The entire purpose of it is a browser, all your talk of themes, extensions, bookmark additions is entirely academic when it comes down to the simple thing that people want a browser for; to look at webpages.

[Dr Unne]

It's contradictory (and ridiculous) saying on one hand that you use IE because you don't care about web browsers enough to switch, and on the other hand spending tons of time arguing about it with people.

People use IE because it comes on their computer and they're too lazy or apathetic to try anything else, or are too used to it to want to change, or don't know anything else exists, or are too ignorant to recognize something better when it comes along. No other reasons. There's nothing wrong with being apathetic or lazy; having good web browsers isn't everyone's top priority.

However it's ridiculous to say that you use IE because it's better. Say you use it even though it's worse because you don't care that it's worse, that would be the truth. I believe that the "IE is cool!" crowd is quite often an example of nonconformity for the sake of nonconformity. Or else I imagine a grizzled old man proclaiming "I don't use banks! Don't trust em! I keeps my money in a coffee can in the Frigidaire!"

I define "better" as working better for the intended purpose of a web browser. You can define "better" in different ways, such as "my 1970 Ford pickup is better than your 2004 Camaro because it can haul more wood", or other such ways, in which case sure, IE may be "better" than Firefox for you. People have different values. Maybe people like it because of the big blue e, because they like blue.

But IE is objectively inferior when it comes to the things I deem important about being a web browser. Things like adhering to web standards, offering more options and better functionality, being more customizable, being more secure (whether it's because "MORE PEOPLE TARGET IE!" or because Firefox is designed in a better way, it doesn't matter (though the latter is more likely true)), etc. etc. Not being made by a company full of convicted criminals is another nice thing. Being cross-platform is yet another. Better ad-blocking capability, typeahead find, nicer interface, superior bookmark management, better privacy controls, better download management, etc. etc. I've read the opinions of IE developers who themselves claim that IE is a piece of junk. It's at least 5 years behind other browsers, before the latest beta was released (which was the first release in how many years?).

(I do code my web pages to be broken in IE, or at least make no effort to make sure they look right in IE.)

[Lindy]

Y'know, I haven't seen anyone in this thread say anything IE being "better", only Firefox users have talked about their browser being "better".

People defending IE, that is, myself, have just been saying "I prefer IE, I see no difference, why bother changing?" purely because I'm being called a moron for the browser I use.

It's hopelessly idiotic in itelf, like calling someone an idiot for the car they drive, what kind of games console they like more or the kind of soft drink they enjoy.

[Jimmch939]

I use to be an aol user, which uses ie. I had tons of spyware + virus issues. I would clean them all out and sooner or later they would be back. I remember running adaware and coming out with thousands of spyware objects. With Firefox, I recently ran a scan (hadn't done one since I switched to firefox months and months ago and I only had 15). Same deal with viruses, I would have a whole host of different things on my computer, clear them out and then a few weeks later I had a bunch more. I recently ran a virus scan, the first I have done in months, and I had one.

Using ie (both through aol, and later for a brief period of time by itself) I experienced freeze-ups and crashes. I would need to reboot my computer at least twice a week while browsing the internet. Since I made the switch to firefox I haven't once had to reboot.

That's enough to convince me.

[Raistlin]

I do admit that IE has bigger security issues (not problems, but issues, because there are problems with Firefox, it just happens that hackers don't turn those problems into issues because Firefox isn't targeted like IE is). Having said that, if more people used Firefox than IE, I firmly believe that Firefox would have a surge in security issues. So you guys can thank me for using IE, now.

And this is based on what knowledge? What security problems is there with Firefox? Yams and Unne and plenty of other people have gone step-by-step as to why Explorer is overall less secure in-and-of-itself than Firefox.

[Doomie]

I think that all you people use Firefox because you're all a bunch of homosexual, atheist, flag-burning, tea-drinking immigrants.

NOTE: THis is not an attack on homosexuals, atheists, flag burners, tea drinkers, or immigrants. It's just that this thread reached such a level of stupidity, that I feel I should reply with something much more stupid...IE RULES! ROFLOLMAO!!!!1!!11!!!1!!

P.S. I have used Firefox and IE. I prefer IE. I didn't get any spyware or viruses, and it wasn't running slowly. It has yet to crash or freeze. I am happy. LEAVE ME ALONE.

[Leeza]

Anyway, this thread is about the newest release of Firefox and not an IE vs. Firefox debate. It doesn't matter to me what people use.

*downloads Firefox 1.5*

EDIT: Okay, I have a problem. It seems that MeasureIt 0.3.3 and fireFTP 0.88.3 have now been disabled for me because they are not compatible with Firefox 1.5. Any suggestions for this Yams? Dr Unne? Anyone?

[Primus Inter Pares]

Having said that, if more people used Firefox than IE, I firmly believe that Firefox would have a surge in security issues. So you guys can thank me for using IE, now.

BoB is one of the forgotten heroes, those that submit themselves to a life of IE and sacrifice so that those that use Firefox may continue to live in security and superiority.