One Question That Needs Clearing Up...
Alright, I'll try to properly articulate what I'm trying to say here.
Me and a friend of mine have seriously been thinking about the plot of FFX lately. Here's our conclusion:
Since the Zanarkand that Tidus was born and raised in is a dream, wouldn't that make Jecht a dream too?
If Jecht is a dream, his being Sin is a dream.
Sin is a dream.
They spend the whole game fighting an imaginary product, a dream.
So eh.... wtf? Why base a game on defeating something that doesn't even exist?
You don't hear the symphony I hear...
Though I am not entirely sure because it's been a while since I last played FFX.
I think the game was not simply for the defeat of Sin but also the elimination of Yu Yevon and the cycle of life, death and rebirth of Sin. They would get rid of Sin forever and summoners would no longer have to sacrifice themselves, only to have Sin reborn. I would think that they are not fighting an imaginary product, because it is real as anything else could be; killing people and causing destruction. That's about how real it could be.
As for all those technical things about the 'dream' and all... so sorry, can't really recall much at the moment.
My latest invention: The parachute that opens on impact and the inflatable dartboard.
Yes, Sin is real, but Jecht is not.
Also, since Jecht is just a dream, why didn't the Fayth stop dreaming about him when he started to wreak havoc? Or is it so that the dream sorta started living its own life?
You don't hear the symphony I hear...
i asked myself the same question, but if Jecht truwly was sin, then all they had to do was stop the fayths dreaming, and then Yu-Yevon would have been left all vaunrable, but games are never that simple.
there's no I in team, but there is in pie, as in meat pie, and meat is an anogram of team
They cannot stop dreaming as long as Yu Yevon is around.Also, since Jecht is just a dream, why didn't the Fayth stop dreaming about him when he started to wreak havoc? Or is it so that the dream sorta started living its own life?
The statement show that the fayth is being used for summoning.
Fayth: Yes... If you defeat Yun Yevon, it will end. Tell me, what do you
know about Yu Yevon?
Fayth: But, you know... When it is all over...we will wake, and our
dream will end. Our dream will vanish.
Tidus: Yeah. You've been dreaming a long time, haven't you?
To end the dream means defeating Yu Yevon and not something that the fayth can do on their free will, since Yu Yevon is doing the summoning.Fayth: The remaining summoners and the townspeople that survived the war... They all became fayth-fayth for the summoning.
So basically, Yu Yevon is something like the summoner while the fayth are used for the summoning.Inside Sin:
Yuna
"The fayth said it's pointless to keep dreaming."
"The dream will disappear, he said."
"What did he mean?"
"And what is it that Yu Yevon is summoning from within Sin?"
Tidus
"The dream of the fayth."
For references:
http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=72747
Last edited by Christmas; 11-30-2005 at 05:18 PM.
You are correct in assuming that Jecht is also a Dream, but, in FFX, the term "Dream" is deceptive. Tidus, Jecht, and the other residents of Dream Zanarkand are Dreams of the Fayth in that they are given substance by that Dreaming. In other words, Tidus and Jecht, and Dream Zanarkand itself, are only dreams in the sense that their reality is necessarily manifested by Yu Yevon's Summoning, invoking the Dreaming of the Fayth. If that Dreaming ends (as it did at the end of the game), the link that Dream Zanrakand's populace has to Spira is removed, and their souls travel to the Farplane (in other words, they die).Originally Posted by Kamrusepas
In this way, it can be understood that Tidus and Jecht are not "dreams" in the conventional sense. In being Summoned, they're actually more akin to Aeons. In any case, Jecht had real physical presence (a physical reality substantiated by the process of Dreaming), and thus could interact with Spira in a physical way. Ultimately, he was used for Braska's Final Aeon. At the point that the Aeon pierced Sin, Yu Yevon possessed it, as it would provide the next "anchoring point" for the pyreflies that ultimately comprise Sin. From within, Yu Yevon would continue his fateful Summoning of the Dreams of the Fayth.
However, Tidus and the others did not defeat Sin in the conventional manner (using the Final Aeon, which necessarily perpetuates Sin). Rather, they actually defeated Yu Yevon. In destroying the progenitor of the Summoning/Dreaming, the Dreaming stopped, and Tidus lost his physical link to Spira.
In conclusion, the party did not spend the entirety of the game fighting a figment of the imagination. Rather, they fought an entity whose "core" was physically manifested by the very concept it helped to perpetuate.
i also think that sin has something to do with making the "dreams" have substance, as tidus and jecht travelled through sin to get to spira. though i am confused on how sin managed to get into the fayths dreams? and how auron was able to get a "lift" to the dream world on sin? (maybe it was a help from jecht's last shred of humanity). I still don't understand how jecht could get into the dreams though?
Why do you imprison your saviour?
The substance is given to them through the fayth that dreamed Zanarkand with Yu Yevon summoning it from within Sin.
Fayth: The dreams of the fayth summoned the memories of the city. They summoned all the buildings, all the people who lived there.It is said that Sin swim near the sea of Zanarkand until Jecht encountered it and was transported to the real world.as tidus and jecht travelled through sin to get to spira. though i am confused on how sin managed to get into the fayths dreams?
As Dream Zanarkand is being summoned into reality by Yu Yevon which is something like an Aeon, so It is physical and should be located somewhere in Spira. As for the exact location, it is not make very clear.
As we see in the opening of how Tidus go to the real world, Auron threw him towards Sin and he got brought to the real world.and how auron was able to get a "lift" to the dream world on sin? (maybe it was a help from jecht's last shred of humanity). I still don't understand how jecht could get into the dreams though?
Just like how Jecht come to the real world, Auron just use the same way to get to the dream world.Auron: Don't make that face. Being dead has its advantages. I was able to ride Sin and go to your Zanarkand.
As for Jecht getting to Dream Zanarkand, it is the same like how the previous Sin appeared near the sea of Dream Zanarkand.
Last edited by Christmas; 12-01-2005 at 10:19 AM.
Actually, no. The Dreams of the Fayth naturally have substance; as with Aeons, the process of the Summoning gives them physical form. Sin is necessary, however, for residents of Dream Zanarkand to reach Spira, as Yu Yevon exerts a kind of overcontrol over Dream Zanarkand, whose residents are unaware of anything beyond the boundaries of their city anyway.
As the Dreaming is a physical event, like any Summoning, it takes place on Spira. Dream Zanarkand, then, is not another plane of existence/alternate dimension, but a physical location on Spira merely far removed from Bevelle, Luca, and the other places visited during the events of FFX. As such, all Sin needed to do to reach Dream Zanarkand was cross some undisclosed distance to reach the city; it was essentially the same thing as Sin moving toward any other population center on the planet.
Again, as Sin's journey to Dream Zanarkand was a physical event, bound up in physical travel, Auron had merely to ride along to also reach the place.
Auron, an Unsent, was not bound to Spira in what might call the normal fashion, and thus was able to use Sin as a vehicle to the city. Jecht would have had no idea that Auron was even "along for the ride." Still exerting some small amount of control over Sin (also noted by Sin's preference for the Hymn of the Fayth), "Jecht" went to Dream Zanarkand, to see his son. There, Sin attacked the city because Sin is inherently destructive.Auron: Don't make that face. Being dead has its advantages. I was able
to ride Sin and go to your Zanarkand.
Like any resident of Dream Zanarkand, Jecht had real physical form. His "status" as a "Dream" merely meant taht his existence necessarily required the continued Dreaming of the Fayth. If it stopped, his link to Spira would be removed, and he would die. As this was the case, there was nothing that precluded him from giving himself to the creation of the Final Aeon, nor was there anything that prevented Braska's Final Aeon from being possessed by Yu Yevon and used as the "anchor" for a new Sin. Finally, as already noted, travelling to Dream Zanarkand was, really, an unextraordinary event.
I think it's just that the writers didn't bother to think this one through. I wouldn't put too much thought into it.
ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY
(1) Eric Clapton is God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.
As I recall, Auron says "when Jecht touched Sin, he became real."
I imagine that's because of Yu-Yevon, just as how (SPOILER)the Fayth can make Tidus real at the end of X-2
So many people have posted something along these lines... It ruins the game if you think to much about the storyline... Anyway.. I think that Sin was real but sort of embodying the, um...... hostility between Zanarkand and Bevelle during the Machina War....Maybe...
Tidus... You mean Meg Ryan?
Silly jilly ultra nuggets.
My sig was deleted.
I always thought that the Dream Zanarkand was just that: a dream. I had no idea that it was an actual physical place just some distance away from Spira. I thought it was just a metaphorical creation within the minds/conciousness of the Fayth as one giant collective. Since Sin is an Aeon technically he could simply be "unsummoned" and sent back into the conciousness of the Fayth to Dream Zanarkand. Remember that Sin is pretty huge, so you'd think that people would be able to keep tabs on it to some extent, but it seems to just appear from nowhere then it attacks. I mean, how on Spira did it get under that frozen lake without breaking the surface?
There is no signature here. Move along.
No. Sin is not an aeon. It is just a bunch of pyrefiles hold together by gravity spells.
And also, we all know that even Sin is defeated by the final summoning, Yu Yevon will merge with the Final Aeon and created another Sin.Rikku
"Wait, gramps! Who's Yu Yevon?"
Mika
"He who _crafts_ the souls of the dead into unholy armor."
"An armor called Sin."
"Clad in it, Yu Yevon is invincible."
I believed that the term "real" is enabling Jecht to get to the real world and enable Jecht to live like a real person just like how Tidus make contact with Sin in the begining.
Last edited by Christmas; 12-02-2005 at 12:07 PM.
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