Meaningless convolution in RPGs

[Necronopticous]

So I've been playing Dragon Quest VIII and I've got to say I'm enjoying it a million times more than I originally thought I would. I think they've made a whole load of healthy changes that really make this installment in the series more enjoyable than any of the previous ones. In fact, I'm over 20 hours into the game and last night was the first time I felt dissapointed about any aspect of it, so bear with me while I explain and exemplify just why.

This thread isn't about Dragon Quest VIII, but I'm making this thread because the part I just passed is a perfect example of what I'm trying to get at. First of all, for those of you who've not played Dragon Quest VIII, without getting too deep, the plot basically revolves around chasing an evil jester to serve him up some overdue justice for a whole bunch of wrongdoings. As you're probably well aware, when you're are chasing him the game is loads of fun because you get the feeling that you're getting somewhere and that the game is progressing. The way I see it, in a perfect RPG you'd be working toward that main goal at every hour you spend on the game unless you choose to pursue some other end. For the most part, for the 20+ hours I've played of Dragon Quest VIII has been pretty good about that, which is why I couldn't get my mind around just WHY they decided to write in the part of the game I played last night. Here's the rundown.

Like I said, the object of the game is to catch this evil jester, in attempting to do that you learn that he has travelled across the sea to the western continents.

Now you must find means to cross the ocean.

A guy back in town tells you he heard a legend about an abandoned ship in the middle of a desert.

Now you must seek out the abandoned ship.

When you find the ship you realize you have no way to get it to the ocean, as it is stranded in a desert. Your team members suggest that you go to the monster-overrun castle library to try and discover means to get the ship to the sea.

Now you must fight your way to an abandoned library.

When you finally get there you meet a wizard who agrees to grant your wish to move the ship to the sea. As luck would have it, the instrument he's using for the magic breaks and he asks you to find him a better instrument.

Now you must find an instrument...

After an extensive backtracking search of the previously visited locations you find that the instrument is a treasure at a castle you previously helped in the game. Still appreciative, the king agrees to give you the instrument...but oh! of course...it's been stolen!

Now you have to go after the thieves

At this point I was really expecting the thief to have amnesia and have forgotten where he put it, forcing you into another meaningless stretch of game-time. Luckily after the boss battle here you're finally able to clear out the long list of convoluted extra plotpoints to finally get means to cross the ocean.

In my opinion, this is awful, unfun, and lazy writing on the part of the game designer. People constantly ask me why I hold the Square and the Final Fantasy series so high and it's because they're generally free of lazy video game production like this. It's really nothing against Dragon Quest VIII or any other game in specific, but why do developers feel the need to require the player to endure coil after coil of overwrought meaningless tasks that do nothing to promote or further the story?

Do you have an opinion on this?

(Yes this is long but listen, I'm a huge dork.)

[Markus. D]

bad plot twists I guess.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

I've heard fetch-quest parodies that don't go on that long.

[Captain Maxx Power]

Truly you are the voice of reason Necro. I couldn't agree more. For me I'm having the most fun in RPGs when I'm making progress. I don't like backtracking or being involved in hunting down certain items over a sometimes HUGE possible area talking to every possible NPC and searching every possible location incase I missed a secret chest or switch or Jade Monkey. I agree that it's lazy writing/design from the games creators, and servers merely to pad out and re-use areas that the game designers have already covered over again and extend the life of the game beyond what it would usually be. If it were up to me I'd rather have a five minute talk with someone over getting a ferry than an hour or so legging it through a desert, library, castle and thief's hideout.

[black orb]

Like I said, the object of the game is to catch this evil jester, in attempting to do that you learn that he has travelled across the sea to the western continents.

Now you must find means to cross the ocean.

A guy back in town tells you he heard a legend about an abandoned ship in the middle of a desert.

Now you must seek out the abandoned ship.

When you find the ship you realize you have no way to get it to the ocean, as it is stranded in a desert. Your team members suggest that you go to the monster-overrun castle library to try and discover means to get the ship to the sea.

Now you must fight your way to an abandoned library.

When you finally get there you meet a wizard who agrees to grant your wish to move the ship to the sea. As luck would have it, the instrument he's using for the magic breaks and he asks you to find him a better instrument.

Now you must find an instrument...

After an extensive backtracking search of the previously visited locations you find that the instrument is a treasure at a castle you previously helped in the game. Still appreciative, the king agrees to give you the instrument...but oh! of course...it's been stolen!

Now you have to go after the thieves

At this point I was really expecting the thief to have amnesia and have forgotten where he put it, forcing you into another meaningless stretch of game-time. Luckily after the boss battle here you're finally able to clear out the long list of convoluted extra plotpoints to finally get means to cross the ocean.

>>> I bet this is the first time you play a DW game, Im right?

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Excessive sidequests are just annoying, but I guess developers do it to stretch the game length. Or something.

That's the reason I still haven't beaten Lufia, it's just annoying.

[Necronopticous]

>>> I bet this is the first time you play a DW game, Im right?

This is why I steered clear until now, although I was a big fan of the original when I was a kid.

[Lindy]

Breath of Fire games are worse.

[Raistlin]

I've heard fetch-quest parodies that don't go on that long.

xD

Yeah, that sounds pretty bad. You could make an entire game out of that one sideplot.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

It probably wouldn't be quite so bad if it wasn't so obviously and terribly contrived.

[Light Mage]

It would be nicer if you know beforehand what you had to do, and could do the tasks in any order you wanted, giving a bit of versatality to the game.

Linear gaming is annoying.

[KoShiatar]

I suppose that by now plot writers think players are expecting something like that. I'm waiting for the RPG that will get rid completely of such stereotypes.

[MecaKane]

That does seem a bit long. But a game like FFX would've been better if there were a bit more things you had to do than walk from temple to temple. @_@

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I prefer it like Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II, where there is a LOT of extra stuff that you can do, but you aren't required to. You can choose to be as linear or nonliniear about it as you want.

[Vyk]

Yay BioWare. I'm glad you said that, 'cause I was just about to tell KoShiatar that the KOTOR games have none of that crap. Hence them being my favorites. And yeah, Square generally avoids that crap too. But I don't mind fetch-quests quite as much as a massive amount of random encounters with crap experience, where you HAVE to spend hours just fighting to level up, and I've heard DQ8 is horrid about this, which is the main reason I've avoided it.

Edit: Noooo, my name's back to normal. Oh well :/