The people of Terra will extinct even if Garland succeed.
The people of Terra will extinct even if Garland succeed.
If Garland is able to create an entirely organic creature, there is no reason to assume he cannot provide them with the ability to produce the sperm and ovum necessary for sexual reproduction. There is even evidence within the game that states that they CAN bread:Originally Posted by Heero Yuy NWZC
This means that Garland did, in fact, create the Genomes with the ability to sexually reproduce, as he felt that genetic diversity was the only way for the Genomes to adapt to their new environment (being Gaia).(Orange): Asexual beings would lack the genetic diversity to adapt to new environments…
1.How can you possibly comment on what souls can or cannot do, when in the real world there is no proof that souls even exist? We can only assume that in the FFIX universe, souls DO have this effect on Genomes, since we are told this very clearly within the game.
2. No one is saying that souls ‘grow’. The souls of the Terrans are implanted into the Genomes.
Soul of Tarsis covered my counter arguments. Basically, your statement that Garland cannot create eggs and sperm (which you failed to back up, I notice) is unfounded and illogical. Secondly, the genomes TELL US that they will grow once infused with a soul. On what basis do you deny that?
I deny that on the basis that they do not know for sure, did Garland give them all the knowldge in the world? No. Secondly, I did backup that he cannot produce eggs and sperm. Read the post. It's called health class. Man! I think u ppl just read what u want to read and not read the whole thing. He wouldn't be able to make eggs and sperm because they consist of genes which he wouldn't be able to create. And im not saying that they are asexual. They wouldn't be able to reproduce at all. They are sterile! Also, he didn't make them have genetic diversity. They look the same! Genes make up the physical features. They are artificial bodies acting as vessels! They have no genes to make up any part of them!
When u said we can assume that souls in the FFIX universe have the ability to make the vessels grow, I thought we weren't supposed to be assuming here? U changing ur mind about not having evidence? They say that they will become new beings but they do not change physically. All they do is change memory and personality to the Terran that is occupying the vessel. Lastly, I never said the souls growed but earlier someone said that the bodies grow, which they don't.
Sorry, but that's simply not a valid counter-argument. Square put that line in there for a reason, and there is not a shred of evidence that suggests the Genome said it even if it wasn't correct. It doesn't make sense; it's irrational, and thus we have to assume the Genome told the truth.I deny that on the basis that they do not know for sure, did Garland give them all the knowldge in the world? No.
So again, I'm sorry, but that won't do as a counter. If you can't come up with anything better, the conclusion must be that they DO have genders.
FF9 is set in another universe, and Garland is incredibly powerful, both technologcally (think of the Invincible) and magically (note: magic makes it possible to do things we cannot do in the real world), so the fact that WE in the real world cannot create genes like that cannot be used to argue that Garland could not.Secondly, I did backup that he cannot produce eggs and sperm. Read the post. It's called health class.
You cannot simply ignore the Genomes statement. They have genes, or else talking about 'genetic diversity' would be meaningless. As for them looking the same, the reason is probably the one I referred to earlier: they do not grow into regular human beings (complete with diverse looks) until they receive a Terran soul. However, they need reproductive organs, because they need genetic diversity (seeing as Terra assimilates many different planets, probably all quite different).Also, he didn't make them have genetic diversity. They look the same! Genes make up the physical features. They are artificial bodies acting as vessels! They have no genes to make up any part of them!
On Terra, I agree, it appears as if they were sterile (if not in body then in mind), but on Gaia, we clearly see them starting to grow more human. I would suppose they'd eventually start reproducing on Gaia, but that's just speculation I suppose.
That wasn't an assumption. Perhaps you failed to see the ingame quote that states that once the Genome receives a soul, his body will grow? Doesn't get much clearer then that.When u said we can assume that souls in the FFIX universe have the ability to make the vessels grow, I thought we weren't supposed to be assuming here?
Read again:They say that they will become new beings but they do not change physically. All they do is change memory and personality to the Terran that is occupying the vessel.
* (Bottom): In time, we will receive souls. Then our bodies will begin to grow.
It says their bodies will grow. BODIES.
Not physically though! Stop thinking literally! Also, u are countering by using my statements out of context. knock it off! I have been over genetics in science a hundred times and i have played FFIX more than i can count (and i can count up to 1 trillion so try saying anything). To switch to another statement u said, magic cannot create eggs and sperm! don't even use magic for a reason! sure the FFIX universe is differetn than ours but natural principles still apply there. For the genomes, they talk about genetic diversity as in the genes that make up voice, mind capability, etc. not physiacl features. as for gender, i know they can have gender already! i have agreed to that possibility, it's just that they won't have the ability to reproduce. the souls would not be able to change the vessels physical looks, only control the vessel itself.
For when they got onto Gaia on the 4th disc, they were not growing human. while experiencing different things on Gaia they are expanding there mind (or knowledge if u want to put since) but were not growing human. they could find out about reproduction and try to reproduce but they would be unable to conceive a child due to the fact that they wouldn't have the eggs and sperm. u are just saying the same statements but are rephrasing them. i am giving u the reasons but u just don't like it. why? i am giving reasonable answers that prove what we are talking about.
What? So it grows metaphysically then? Please clarify this statement.
Yes, I’m sure most people here have done biology at some point in high school.
Yeah, sure kid.
That was just an example used as to possibly explain why Garland has the capacity to create creatures that are capable of sexual reproduction. We have no idea how he does it, it may be entirely technological, but we do know that that he CAN create genomes capable of sexual reproduction because the game tells us that they are NOT ASEXUAL so they have the GENETIC DIVERSITY to adapt to their new home. The only way to gain the characteristics that will allow them to live on Gaia is through sexual reproduction, thus the genomes can reproduce.
Even though this is completely untrue, even if it were true what proof do you have that in the far future we won’t be able to artificially create the cells needed for sexual reproduction? Garland is from an advanced civilisation, which is able to do such things.
…That statement is a contradiction of itself. Voice and brain capabilities ARE physical features.
.I’m sorry, you’re wrong on this one. There is proof you are wrong. It is commented upon DIRECTLY within the game, and in the game the addition of the souls DOES cause their bodies to change physically.
Yes, because the souls of the Terrans were never inserted into them. The Terrans were destroyed by Kuja. We see this happen.
You’re the one who is ignoring what others are saying. We have provided proof that Genomes sexually reproduce and in fact it is a feature that Garland incorporated specifically so the Genomes were able to live on Gaia. Maybe once you’ve finished learning genetics in science class, you should go over natural selection as well…
I have no idea what forum section im in now.
please your getting just a tiny bit off topic
[leeza]...and thank you so much for reporting it Tsukasa. ~ Leeza[/leeza]
Soul of Tarsis beat me to it again, but I'll just comment on some specific things.
Besides being a vague statement with no actual meaning (or, no meaning that you actually clarify), as Soul pointed out, I have to stop and ask on what basis you are an expert on Genomes all of a sudden? On what basis can you claim that the Genomes sentence is to be taken anything but at face value?Not physically though! Stop thinking literally!
You can apparently count to a trillion, but cannot see that if the FF9 universe obeyed the exact same principles as our universe, magic would not be possible. It's quite simple: because magic exists in FF9, we cannot instantly translate everything from our universe into the FF9 universe.don't even use magic for a reason! sure the FFIX universe is differetn than ours but natural principles still apply there.
So your argument that because we at this present stage of biology on OUR universe cannot create genes, a highly advanced civilisation capable of also using magic, set in ANOTHER UNIVERSE cannot make genes, is simply not a good arguments.
Perhaps you disagree, but I saw the genomes 'awakening' as a sign that they were growing human. Perhaps not instantly in body, but I would say that their souls would develop with time, and thus eventually their bodies (as the Genome said, and you still haven't properly countered, a soul can cause a body to grow).For when they got onto Gaia on the 4th disc, they were not growing human. while experiencing different things on Gaia they are expanding there mind (or knowledge if u want to put since) but were not growing human.
Please, don't belittle me by claiming I can't take 'losing a debate' (or will you perhaps call me dumb*** again?). The reason I (and Soul of Tarsis) am restating myself is because you are unable to come up with decent arguments to counter the ingame statements we have provided.u are just saying the same statements but are rephrasing them. i am giving u the reasons but u just don't like it. why? i am giving reasonable answers that prove what we are talking about.
If you actually come up with a good, logical argument BASED ON INGAME EVIDENCE (ie. not current biology in our universe, or by trying to claim superiority in FF9 knowledge by claiming you have finished the game a million times) then I will gladly concede.
Sry it took me so long to reply. I had school and the basketball practice. Let's see what I have to say shall we? Ok:
Ok. Let me clarify. The bodies do not grow physically as in they do not gain height, weight, age, or other physical features. This is what I meant by they don't grow physically.
I see, and here is my thought on that. First, I have already stated that Garland wouldn't be able to create eggs and sperm. Also, I have said anything about the genomes being asexual. Asexual is when a being can reproduce without using sexual intercourse. The genomes are n ot asexual, they are sterile! They can adapt into their new envrionment(which we see in disc 4) but they would not be able to conceive chilfren. See? Another thing, how the hell do u gain characteristics through sexual reproduction?! This statement makes no sense. They wouldn't be able to gain anything except knowledge. The vessels do not age making them able to live long and get used to their new world, and since they Garland's plan did not work and the souls of Terrans were not implanted into the vessels they will not be discarded.
Here's one thing, I know that we won't be able to artificially create eggs and sperm needed for sexual reproduction is that they are to complex to be made. First is that eggs and sperm are not cells. They are hormones and genes that are used to make offspring. Second is that to make eggs and sperm u would need the genes and the hormones to create them, and if Garland did preserve genes and hormones to make these he would've been able to make the genomes look different. And besides, Garland would not be able to make the chromosomes because they contains trillions upon trillions of atoms to make up one gene on a chromosome. There would be no way. Also, have u even researched on terrans? There is no record that dates back to the start of their history so u wouldn't know what they are capable of, but cann only know what they are not capable of.
No, voice and brain capabilities are not physical features. Physical features are features of someone that u can see. Can u see how there voice sounds? Can u see their brain and how much memory and other storage it can hold? No, so there are not physical features.
I'm sorry, but ur the wrong one. If ur using that same statement from the game, as I said earlier they are not talking about growing physically. They are talking about growing into the person that is the soul that is taking over them.
Yes, but they are not growing human which is what u are saying. The genomes do not have souls for themselves so they wouldn't be able to be human. They can only have an idea of feelings and such(just like AI robots). No, i'm not saying they're robots.Yes, because the souls of the Terrans were never inserted into them. The Terrans were destroyed by Kuja. We see this happen.
Ur wrong. Ther is magic in our world, just not as powerful or as complex as in the FF universe. Also, I said natural principles. Not all principles. And i also already have an arguement to the genes thing.
Again, already argued above.
That's all I have to say at the time. If u have anything more u would like to go over, please post.
They wouldn’t, but later generations would. This is why I brought up Darwin’s Theory of Natural Selection. Basically, it states that as a species breeds in a certain environment, offspring many generations down the track will be born with mutations that are beneficial to the environment in which they live. When subsequent generations breed, these beneficial mutations will be present in their offspring and so on until you get a creature that is completely suited to its habitat. In other words, the current Genomes will not gain the characteristics necessary to live on Gaia for a prolonged period themselves, but their offspring will. This will ensure the survival of the race. It’s been a while since I’ve done biology though, so if anyone can give a better interpretation of the line “(Orange): Asexual beings would lack the genetic diversity to adapt to new environments…’, I’ll be more than glad to here it.
As has already been stated, you have no proof of this.
That doesn’t even begin to make sense.
The way a voice sounds is due to the shape and size of the vocal cords and throat. This is a physical characteristic. The amount of information the brain can hold is based on characteristic of the brain itself. This too is a physical characteristic.
Yes…? And that’s not a physical change how?
I didn’t say that they were becoming human. You’ll have to discuss that with Sir Bahamut.
You have no proof that there is magic in our world. And no, you DON’T have an argument for the ‘gene thing’.
Sorry, I’m done with this. Arguing with you is like arguing with Future Esthar or Ishin Ookami. As someone pointed out, this is all completely off topic anyway.
Well, we did start this discussion. U want me to make a thred so we can contnue, and no this is not like arguing with FE because he just comes up with completely new things (I know because i am arguing with him in other threads). Now I'll respond to what u have said:
Future generations wouldn't be able to adapt through natural selection because the genomes aren't natural themselves. They are artificial beings created to be occupieed by the souls of the Terrans(which never happened). Also, I have gone over the Darwin's theory of natural selection. This would apply to the genomes if they were able to reproduce, which they can't(already stated in earlier post). The genomes are practically immortal since they were not created to age thus preventing them from death(I have stated this in an earlier post). The only thing they can gain in life is knowledge. For the line “(Orange): Asexual beings would lack the genetic diversity to adapt to new environments…’ This is saying that beings who reproduce without having sexual intercourse wouldn't be able to adapt to their new envrionment because they do not change characteristics since they are only making a new being with the exact same genes as themself. This still does not prove that the genomes are able to reproduce.They wouldn’t, but later generations would. This is why I brought up Darwin’s Theory of Natural Selection. Basically, it states that as a species breeds in a certain environment, offspring many generations down the track will be born with mutations that are beneficial to the environment in which they live. When subsequent generations breed, these beneficial mutations will be present in their offspring and so on until you get a creature that is completely suited to its habitat. In other words, the current Genomes will not gain the characteristics necessary to live on Gaia for a prolonged period themselves, but their offspring will. This will ensure the survival of the race. It’s been a while since I’ve done biology though, so if anyone can give a better interpretation of the line “(Orange): Asexual beings would lack the genetic diversity to adapt to new environments…’, I’ll be more than glad to here it.
My proof is right there. Read!As has already been stated, you have no proof of this.
This does so make sense. You are saying that the Terrans are capable of doing something even though you are not shown in the game exactly where and how they do it. With this, and without a history of them and what they have advanced in technologically, you can only state true fact about what they cannot do.That doesn’t even begin to make sense.
Here's a better question. How's is that a physical change? Souls only change the vessels knowledge, memory, and personality to the person that the soul is. If the genomes did change physically, then their outward appearance would change completely which is impossible since the genomes are artficial beings.Yes…? And that’s not a physical change how?
Yes, I'm pretty sureI replied that to Sir Bahamut because the staement I am replying to was from him.I didn’t say that they were becoming human. You’ll have to discuss that with Sir Bahamut.
One, you don't believe in magic? Then don't play games with magic! ALso, yes I do have an arguement about the gene thing(read the previous post).You have no proof that there is magic in our world. And no, you DON’T have an argument for the ‘gene thing’.
That's it for now. I'd like to know ur opinion.
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*closes*
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- Heero Yuy NWZC: Do not go around the filters on this site again. Do not flame other members. Do not post more than once in a row. Every post has an edit/delete button...use it.
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