Do's and Don't's with sub jobs

[lordblazer]

For the bard side woot!!!

Okay best usbs for Bards in certain situations.

Anyway BRD/WHm is great if your in XP parties. They work well as backup healers. The problem I have with this is that most parties want to define the bard as a backup healer. Yes Bard is a support job, but you must understand that they are also buffers and shouldn't be completely relied on as healers..Though as backup healers they are excelent. As backup and depending on what level they are on.Due to the small amount of MP you will have. The reason why most EXP parties look at this as the best subs for Bards is to basicly put more responsibilities on them. Because apparently their job is easy(it is but it takes constant watch to keep up with songs).YOu really don't want oyur bard to be healing the whole time. BRD/WHM's are used as a last resort. LEts say the mages died and can't cure. the BRD/WHM can and if they are lvl 50 BRD/WHM then they can do raise. ITs useful. THats the definition of a backup healer.
(that took me like 4 months to figure out.)

Now for soloing depending on what your going to do. For EXP you might wanna do BRD/NIN or BRD/RNG. Sounds strnage. ANyway its both expensive and if oyu want to go the cheaper route then BRD/WAR. Anyway BRD/NIN you pretty much know whta you can do with a NIN subbed.. This is usefu;l because you can buff yourself up and if oyu aim to have a melee Bard(this is only useful in Ballista most players when this term is used will tend to be a smart a'word and want to yell at you and call you stupid for sayiung the term melee bard.).Anyway BRD/NIN is ok but if you use daggers for soloing.. I found BRD/RNG very useful if you ephemsize on your archery and marksmanship skills. I would work on marksmanship though and use guns.


ALso useful for ballista is BRD/THF .. One great reason for this is because your faster your more mobile. .YOu just have to focus on songs but not completely. You must also melee a bit. You can sleep things. You don't need spells as much in a ballista match except for your songs. The THF subbed gives you the steal ability in ballista and this is useful when you're stealing Petra's for the opposing team members.Being a backup healer is an option but I found ballista to be very mobile and really your teammates respawn. Your sub will not hinder your team's ability to win. What makes a ballista team a winning team is teamwork. Of course. Its keeping organized,aand ou and your team being able to adapt to changes and make some of those changes on the field. ITs not seperating. YOu stay in a group. Though the game gets lame when a team camps a rook. Find the other rook and FORCE them to have to camp two. IF oyu do this. YOu can basicly win a ballista match. BRD/THF is very useful in a ballista match when it comes to scoring and playing certain songs that disables the enemy player.

The classical RP form of BRD woul dhave to be BRD/THF. Though FF11 doesn't design this to be so apparently. IF you do this. Then thats great you wanna play the role of a Bard. That is a self serving musician who is also a thief and a low life.

Anyway all in all for any sub its whatever you want to do. Though when you do this. YOU must make it work out and fit a party format. ITs up to you and only you. YOu can take the advice of others, but I say experiement with different subs and see which one your most effective and most comfortable with. NEVER let a group or party dictate what you sub for your job. Because you have to deal with it and NOT them. Just do what feels right for you and do what you feel will benefit the team and ignore the skeptics who probaly has never tried the horrible job combos and has just heard it by word from someone else.

[Lionx]

Lol for me the BRD/WHM that does Curaga's and helps me heal the non-tank will save me alot of mp and they gain it back by Ballad anyway. Therefore i can focus on Hasting other people, basically anything that can keep me resting longer or other people better, their MP is expendable.

BRD does not have a Marksmanship or Archery skill, so you cannot use any of those types of weapons anyway. I dont see where you even get that..O_o..and i dont see how a melee BRD can work out at all. You are too busy casting if you sub WHM and save everyone downtime.

I believe a BRD/WHM with blink and stoneskin is more useful than a /THF with Sneak Attack doing pidy damage and running away after a Lullaby in ballista. Although i have to say its kinda crap how they nerfed it in pvp.

In any case i still believe that its the party that decides whether to kick you out or not, if you are doing a subpar job, dont take advantage of it just because BRDs are valuable.

[lordblazer]

Lol for me the BRD/WHM that does Curaga's and helps me heal the non-tank will save me alot of mp and they gain it back by Ballad anyway. Therefore i can focus on Hasting other people, basically anything that can keep me resting longer or other people better, their MP is expendable.

BRD does not have a Marksmanship or Archery skill, so you cannot use any of those types of weapons anyway. I dont see where you even get that..O_o..and i dont see how a melee BRD can work out at all. You are too busy casting if you sub WHM and save everyone downtime.

I believe a BRD/WHM with blink and stoneskin is more useful than a /THF with Sneak Attack doing pidy damage and running away after a Lullaby in ballista. Although i have to say its kinda crap how they nerfed it in pvp.

In any case i still believe that its the party that decides whether to kick you out or not, if you are doing a subpar job, dont take advantage of it just because BRDs are valuable.

yeah it is crap how they nerfed up lullaby in pvp well its pretty much nerfed up in any situation. I had my singing and wind skills up to 150 and when I did lullaby on a valkrum mob. It like had no effect. Not saying bards are valueable so take advantage and yes a party does have a say so in kicking you, but they shouldn't kick you on your sub choice if oyu can make ends meet in a very efficient way. I say experiement and whe n I say that I don't mean in a party I mean on your own.

BRD/THF is useful for STEAL in a ballista match. IF you have ever used your theif job in a ballista and has done it. YOu discover you can steal most of oyur oponnents PErta's. I'm just naming some specifics here nothing big and I'm not dissing the BRD/WHM. The BRD.WHM is nice, but I've seen some taken advantage of and kicked out of a party for being a crappy healer. I mean I was thinkeing of course he's crappy being a healer isn't his main job and with ballad it only restores 1 MP every second. It really isn't fast enough to keep a sustainable amount of MP but BRD/WHM does help WHM which kinda goes along with my definition of a BAckup healer. Gives the WHM a temporary break to save up on MP for certain situations.

I've seen WArriors taken advatnage of I've seen WHMs taken advantage of and I've also seen melee jobs taken advantage of. PRetty much when a party put more responsibilities on you than anyone else and you do a great job at it but screw up one time and its like being threatened to get kicked. Then you are being taken advantage of.


I say yes a party and othe rplayers have influence over you and what ypou can do to your charcter, but this influence is so meniual. ITs so small that really its you who defines your cahracter its job and what its role in a party is. No one else. Also its your job to make sure you have control over your character why? Because its a video game. IF oyu don't alteast have a so-so what you do with oyur chracter your own chracter that you spent 30 bucks for software and spend 12 bucks a month for. Is in oyur influence and in our control, and yes MMORPGs have a tendacy to get to a point were players are dictating other players on what to do with their character's.

[Lionx]

Steal is nice however i find it incredily risky...not saying crap but BRD DEF Is pretty crap, and if you can steal that means you are in the front lines, that doesnt sound that smart as it can easily get free Gate Breaches for the other side. You lose your ability to Sprint too once you steal, sure you can flee but ever 5 minutes is not that..dependable..same for Steal.

MP for BRDs are pretty easy to come by with a small pool, and post 55 you get BalladII as well and i have been with BRDs that do with what i described, they arent main heal but CuragaIIs and CureIIIs and Poisonas add up to alot of saved mp and they dont rest at all, whenever they can they help save MP.

And not to diss BRDs, but only becuase you are a BRD you can say you can do whatever you want, you get parties a dime a dozen, saying that to a melee is a huge no-no as they dont necessarily get parties for weeks if they dont make their own.

[lordblazer]

Steal is nice however i find it incredily risky...not saying crap but BRD DEF Is pretty crap, and if you can steal that means you are in the front lines, that doesnt sound that smart as it can easily get free Gate Breaches for the other side. You lose your ability to Sprint too once you steal, sure you can flee but ever 5 minutes is not that..dependable..same for Steal.

MP for BRDs are pretty easy to come by with a small pool, and post 55 you get BalladII as well and i have been with BRDs that do with what i described, they arent main heal but CuragaIIs and CureIIIs and Poisonas add up to alot of saved mp and they dont rest at all, whenever they can they help save MP.

And not to diss BRDs, but only becuase you are a BRD you can say you can do whatever you want, you get parties a dime a dozen, saying that to a melee is a huge no-no as they dont necessarily get parties for weeks if they dont make their own.

WEll most ballista's I played you stay were your team members are and you gang bang a player that is seperted from its group lol I steal the petras then.

Also I was a WAR I know the horros of waiting and all that crap..

[chronic_Maniac]

nin/war is great to have and I have to say the job I look for most when making a party. My dream party is nin/war, whm/blm, drk/blm, pld/war, rdm/what ever, and thf/nin.

[lordblazer]

THF/NIn are freaking awesome.

[chronic_Maniac]

Yes thf/nin is, so the grand meaning on this thread is too keep mages with mages subs and melee with melee sub. This is because of a balance in the world of FF11. the closest you'll get to a multi task is smn/rdm which I am leveling now. It includes all summons (only if you got them), some white and black magic. not at all am I saying its better, I'm just saying you get three types of magic. With ninja you will find you can solo a lot of quests and or missions due to some of its spells. Anyways be cautious of /smn /drg /bst because your pet will only be half of what you are and thats not good it you want to rely on them.

[Lionx]

Totally untrue, you just have to be smart about it. A DRG/RDM or WHM can easily be a main healer at certain exp camps, as well as a efficient soloer thanks to their wyverns(now living and showing up longer!).

/RDM all you want is Phalanx, Dispel, and maybe Gravity, but with crap enfeebling i dont think Gravity is going to land. Everything else a WHM sub can do and do it earlier and better. I dont know if SMN get Enhancing magic though, but i assume they dont and Phalanx is going to be weak. Ignore all Elemental Nukes as you have no Elemental skill.

Ninja sub is just for Tonko(invis) and Utsusemi because ninjutsu has no bearing on how potent these spells work, hence why NIN sub is ok.

Alot of mages sub SMN after 50 for Aerial Armor and Auto-Refresh even if i am not a fan of it. /DRG is great pre 30 for that ATK Bonus that no one else gets and you get Jump, its moot once you reach 30 though with Berserk and Sneak Attack availible but from the 20-30 range /DRG is uncontested. /BST you can charm stuff, just not as reliable to be able to charm them, but its still fun to muck around with i dont think anyone found a use for /BST really...but dont be so quick to dimiss some combinations right off the bat. With enough thought even some of the wierdest combos can work out efficiently as the cookie cutters in different situations(just mentality now).

[chronic_Maniac]

If I seen a war/whm,blm,rdm,smn I'd have to not invite if he is on a low level. I'm not givin suggestions out for people who are high enough to know better its for people who don't really know what to do. so 55+ you know, 1-55 help the party by having a good sub. anyways I got some ideas I want to ask everyone to see what would be good for mnk. would it be mnk/war, mnk/nin, mnk/sam, mnk/drk or pld, mnk/thf, ,mnk/drg.... I'm mnk/war right now, should I stay or use one of the above?

Also Lionx whm/war hmmm Totally untrue I think not.

[Lionx]

I am not saying that we should all like a WAR/SMN, however a WAR/DRG 20-30 thats not tanking and is a DD is absolutely acceptable. A THF/DRG in ballista is more than welcome to my side with Sneak Attack Jump for instant 150-170 damage even against fleeing enemies.

If i remember right, my friend on my LS had a WHM/NIN tank with dual Pixie Maces and actually did ok since the monsters she was fighting was Mandragoras and they hit like pussies. On certain NMs at a higher level i can probably tank them as well with WAR sub like AF1 NM with Holy Breastplate or the lvl 75 Hauby-poser rare/ex body armor for WHM only(forgot name...reverned mail?). WHM hit harder than most mages per strike with hammers and its all about getting 100TP before running out of MP. That doesnt mean that WHM/WAR is good for exp, but for certain things i would think its not as bad as it seems, the only difference between RDM and WHM is Refresh/Convert/Armor selection, per hit WHM do more damage than them, however because they lack the option of survive long periods of time they can only last until their MP runs out whereas a RDM just has to last before Convert is up again and keep on going and wittle it down.

MNK/WAR-General party sub, most MNK will sub this througout their exp career for Berserk and Double Attack, and Provoke at lower levels. If geared right i am sure Provoke can make them good tanks. Double Attack and Kick Attacks post 50 make this a very scary combo.

MNK/THF-I dont see this being very useful outside of farming, the majority of Weapon Skills a MNK uses is multi-hit and Sneak Attack only works on their first hit. It could have its uses but i feel its more limited than WAR sub for general exp.

MNK/NIN-I seen a few of these use Utsusemi to negate damage at higher levels and solo a few things that they arent able to before. Mostly with Utsusemi Ni and Ichi combined, their attacks just gather alot of hate as it is.

MNK/WHM-HNM, Boost=>Switch to MND gear=>Chi Blast for 1K+ damage, WHM sub gives you alot of MND.

MNK/DRG-Ballista, great for those people hiding in Utsusemi and your next attack round is off, i have partied with a number of MNK and THF/DRG at lvl 30 and sometimes 40 caps(less likely but at lvl 30 its a great sub). MNK/DRG is also good lvl 20-30 if you got a competent tank where you dont have to provoke. The only time where /WAR really seperates from other sj is when they get Berserk, whereas otherwise the other ability they have is Provoke and since most MNKs dont tank and if you got a capable tank, theoretically it shouldnt be necessary and you can do more damage with +10ATK from the Attack Bonus and Jump for TP. Moot 30+ though.

MNK/SAM-Lvl 60+ cap ballistas, thats total bull how they can spam Raging Fist on your ass as well as get Kick Attacks. It MIGHT also be useful in other areas but not too sure at this current moment...

MNK/PLD or DRK i find no use for currently, if Last Resort and Souleater werent bad subbed /DRK might be a good one...but currently i cant see any use for these types of subjobs.

[Nakor TheBlue Rider]

i told you /Drk only as a Rdm for Stun

although I once saw this Mnk/Drk we were lvl 30-40 somewhere in there and i was Drk/War. Not only was this Mnk doing more Dmg than me per fight, some of his punches did more than some of my swings, and monks get 2 punches a round.

Still i dont suggest anyone but Rdm sub Drk, the abilitys and traits are quite worthless to most other jobs.