Delita (Most likely spoilers)

[feioncastor]

After answering that question I just answered about the rest of the game, I was curious about how some of you view a few things.

Deltia did some pretty dirty stuff to get to the top. He betrayed everyone who trusted him from the Nanten and Goltana all the way up through the Church. He killed whoever he needed to because his motive was to clean the country of Ivalice up. He was tired of the corruption brought on by having nobility like the Beoulve's and such. So he, a peasant, fought and lied his way to the top to fix the problem, right?

Well, I'm wondering if any of you guys feel that Delita was doing the right thing. He accomplished his goal, but he gave no credit to Ramza, or to any of the others who aided him. He killed a lot innocent people, including people who were just following orders and probably didn't know any better.

I'll post what I think about it when a few people have posted what they think, so I can gain a bit of perspective on the subject.

Feion

[DocFrance]

Delita was a narcissist. He was doing what he thought was the right thing in his mind. He had been used all his life as a commoner, and now felt the need to use others as a way of making things "right."

Delita was definitely not doing the right thing, which resulted in his own demise.

[BG-57]

In many ways Ramza and Delita are reflections of each other. Both taking parallel paths to their destinies. It's interesting to consider that Ramza and Delita could have traded places had Teta lived and Alma died.

While Ramza tries to change things from the outside, Delita clearly operates from within. While Ramza slays Zodiac Braves and rescues people, Delita curries favor and forgies alliances. While it netted Delita fame and fortune, I wonder how much happiness he found. I sure hope it wasn't much.

[DocFrance]

Well, supoosedly he died a stabbity death, so he couldn't have been too happy with the end result.

[feioncastor]

I've never looked at Delita as a bad guy. He wanted to fix the world, and he used people to do it. It may have been unethical, but I feel that the end justifies the means.

Feion

[DocFrance]

It may have been unethical, but I feel that the end justifies the means.

Hey, so did Hitler!

[feioncastor]

Even so, it's hard to look at a guy like Delita and call him a bad guy.

I mean, Vormav, he was a bad guy. St. Ajora turned out to be a bad guy, as did all the zodiac braves. Dycedarg, he was clearly a bad guy. As was Cardinal Dracleau. But I just don't get that impression of Delita.

So let me get this straight. The legends you hear about the Zodiac braves saving the earth is all a bunch of BS? The Zodiac Braves are really bad guys, and everyone thinks they're not, and then Ramza kills them all as he goes along because they're bad guys, and St. Ajora isn't really a good guy either? He's just another bad guy that becomes Altima?

Feion

[BG-57]

He's not evil, but certainly amoral. Perhaps he feels the death of his sister frees him from taking other people into consideration when making his plans.

I'm sure all the people whose backs he climbed over to reach the top can console themselves in that their sacrifices helped usher in a golden age. :rolleyes2

So let me get this straight. The legends you hear about the Zodiac braves saving the earth is all a bunch of BS? The Zodiac Braves are really bad guys, and everyone thinks they're not, and then Ramza kills them all as he goes along because they're bad guys, and St. Ajora isn't really a good guy either? He's just another bad guy that becomes Altima?
Feion

The plot of FFT is essentially a revisionist history of Ivalice. So if the events that happen to Ramza are true, and the Zodiac monsters and Ajora are indeed the Zodiac Braves of legend, their legend within the game must be false.

The Brave story mentions a Yudora Empire and Holy Church of Father Fara which killed Ajora at Golgorand. According the the Glabados Church (followers of Ajora), the city with the headquarters was destroyed in a natural disaster, which they claimed was the wrath of god.

So the revisionist view of these events would be:

Ajora, and the Zodiac Braves fooled people into thinking they were saviors (probably possesed humans through stones the way they do in the game) and Father Fara and followers opposed and destroyed them. The Glabados followers, not knowing of their demonic nature, wrote stories about the matyrdom of Ajora. As the Fara chruch fell into decline, only the Glabados teachings were left, so the myths become the official story.

So what makes the Gerominak scriptures so damaging is that is has an eyewitness account of Ajora that contradicts the official history of the saint. Even Funeral himself seems to have no idea about the true nature of the holy stones and the Zodiac Braves.

[feioncastor]

How many times did you have to go through the game to figure it out like that? I've played through a few times, and that's what I thought was going on, but I wasn't 100% sure until you just explained it and it all clicked.

Feion

[Roogle]

Someone here said that Delita met an untimely and stabbity death, but it says that Delita had a long and peaceful rule at the beginning of the game. He couldn't have died at the hands of Ovelia, if that's the case.

[BG-57]

I'm on my third play through of FFT. The plot is very conplex and confusing.

As for Delita's 'death', the game never says when that event took place. It could have been twenty years later.

I apply the same rule of thumb for video games as for movies: if you do not see a character die on screen they are usually not dead. Delita is wounded, but far from dead when the scene ends. If there were any justice it would be a mortal wound though.

[feioncastor]

BG, you seem to really despise Delita. Why is that? His goal was pretty much the same as Ramza's, he just used a dirtier way to get there. He was tired of people like Dycedarg and Zalbag being allowed to order the death of people like him or his sister, Teta. So he did something about it. I mean, I would've done it that way too. Ramza had to work much harder and kill of these terrible monstrosities, whereas Delita had to kill off old geezers like Goltana and such. Delita got things done. He fixed the problems that were plaguing Ivalice and made it a happier place. Ramza had a lot to do with that too, but without Delita, Ramza would not have succeeded either. Some of the people that Delita doublecrossed and killed probably would've finished up Ramza, so in that sense, Delita played a huge role. Huge enough, in fact, that only his name appeared in the history books. That's why Alazlam's agenda involves exposing the truth regarding Ramza's role in everything.

But even so, Delita was a key player in the whole thing and thanks to his efforts, Ivalice became a happier place.

And hey, I wanted to ask, does that mean that the teaching of Glabdos Church is nothing but a pack of lies? People thought that St. Ajora was the savior when really he was a bad guy, right? Ironically, after Ramza stops St. Ajora, when he becomes Altima, right after that, it shows the funeral scene being conducted by a priest of Glabdos... Or do I have that wrong? Even after Ramza destroyed the Zodiac Braves and saved the world, people continued to believe that the Braves were good guys.... Crazy. I guess it's because Ramza never bothered telling anyone about his findings in the scriptures and regarding the stones and St. Ajora.

Do I have that right? I'm really concerned that perhaps I don't understand the storyline entirely...

Feion

[BG-57]

BG, you seem to really despise Delita. Why is that? His goal was pretty much the same as Ramza's, he just used a dirtier way to get there. He was tired of people like Dycedarg and Zalbag being allowed to order the death of people like him or his sister, Teta. So he did something about it. I mean, I would've done it that way too. Ramza had to work much harder and kill of these terrible monstrosities, whereas Delita had to kill off old geezers like Goltana and such. Delita got things done. He fixed the problems that were plaguing Ivalice and made it a happier place. Ramza had a lot to do with that too, but without Delita, Ramza would not have succeeded either. Some of the people that Delita doublecrossed and killed probably would've finished up Ramza, so in that sense, Delita played a huge role. Huge enough, in fact, that only his name appeared in the history books. That's why Alazlam's agenda involves exposing the truth regarding Ramza's role in everything.

But even so, Delita was a key player in the whole thing and thanks to his efforts, Ivalice became a happier place.

I disagree with you about Delita's methods being justified. I would never conscience kidnapping, betrayl, murder, and lying even to create a better place. Anyway, wouldn't that be kind of hypocritical of him to create a just society based on a foundation of such sordid doings?

I had sympathy for him over Teta but he frittered that away over his various unwholesome activities. He's no worse than say Zalbag or Roefel, but they get a comeuppance by the end. I find Delita's motives understandable, but I think he still got off lightly.

And hey, I wanted to ask, does that mean that the teaching of Glabdos Church is nothing but a pack of lies? People thought that St. Ajora was the savior when really he was a bad guy, right? Ironically, after Ramza stops St. Ajora, when he becomes Altima, right after that, it shows the funeral scene being conducted by a priest of Glabdos... Or do I have that wrong? Even after Ramza destroyed the Zodiac Braves and saved the world, people continued to believe that the Braves were good guys.... Crazy. I guess it's because Ramza never bothered telling anyone about his findings in the scriptures and regarding the stones and St. Ajora.

Do I have that right? I'm really concerned that perhaps I don't understand the storyline entirely...

Feion

There is also mention of a King of Murond who summoned demons and the Zodiac Braves fought them. I think the summoning part is true, but I suspect that the Zodiac Braves ended up serving the demons instead of destroying them. They may have well began by fighting Altima and the others, but could have been corrupted. Naturally since the church is based in Murond, and there are no competing accounts of what happened, I'm sure the church did its best to omit the events that made the followers of Ajora look bad. I'm sure the heroics of Father Fara were ruthlessly surpressed.

An interesting (and possibly unanswerable) question is was Altima always acting through Ajora or did he posses and corrupt him at a later date (like Weisgraf)?

[Roogle]

Delita was very ungrateful for all that the Beoulves did for him. I think Zalbag was wrong in killing Teta, of course, but I know that if she survived, she wouldn't have approved at all of what Delita was doing.

Delita crossed the line for me when he attacked Balmafula.

[feioncastor]

Yeah, but Balmafula was just one of many. I'm sure there were many others like her that were too minor to even include in the actual storyline, considering the number of people Delita supplanted.

And I don't think Delita didn't appreciate what the Beoulves did for him. I think he may have been blinded with fury when Zalbag ordered Algus to kill his sister, but I think Delita always appreciated the nobility of Balbanes and even of Ramza, despite telling Ramza that he'd kill him if he had to.

As if he actually could. Ramza would work Delita raw.

Feion