The "Is Rinoa really you know who" Post- (Spoiler)

[Sir Bahamut]

Angel Wing: You should read through the thread before posting you know; we've already established that Rinoa is without a doubt, NOT Ultimecia, and cannot ever be her. :rolleyes2

[Alexander]

Rinoa is not Lord Voldemort, Ultimecia, or whatever. Rinoa is Rinoa.

Ultimecia isn't Jenova, either. But, most certainly, Ultimecia is Quina. Now go find some yummy-yummies. XD

[Lychon]

Well, I can confidently state that I do not believe Rinoa is Ultimecia as of now. I do believe that Rinoa is the most beautiful, spirited, and the overall best female character ever designed to grace a fictional/ factual medium.

Yuna comes close to her, in my opinion, but Rinoa Heartilly is THE pinnacle of female design.

[dante the demon prince]

while in space she is possessed by ultamecia

if you watch the movie that shows what happened after you beet edea the second time (the movie on disk 3) the movie in space i think it shows ultimicia possesing rinoa

[Az Lionheart]

personnally i have always said no up until my last play of the game. it is all based around Seifer's dream of being someones (in the case a sourcerouses) knight. that someone is Rinoa and as we already know they met way before squall and rinoa. Seifer comes to what he thinks is rinoa's aid by holding the president Delling, i think it was him) at knife point.

so far he is being her knight....

so why would he change to Edea's kinght so fast?

she being controled by ultimecia (who could be Rinoa) is therefore technically Rinoa, so as a result he does not become someone elses knight however still is Rinoa's knight.

now saying this i dont think he knows they are the same person but subconsiously i think he feels a conection which is why he became edeas night because he felt rinoa in her(ultimecia)


reading this throu...ya its not well explanned so sorry =)

[Noj_R]

No no no....

Its already proven Rinoa is NOT Ulti. So in relation to the above post. No, it doesnt make any sense.

Most people believe some weird " someone = ulti " in order to make sense of what Ulti is trying to accomplish. In otherwords, her actions just dont make sense and they need a theory to make sense of it. I agree, Ulti's actions dont make sense, but do they have to...?

For example, look at Hitler, he had an insane power trip goin and almost took over the world. His intentions were as clear as Ulti's: To become ruler of the planet.

So Ultimecia's intentions dont really matter because when someone is insane, they dont tend to make much sense. Ulti ( to me ) appears insane and power mad. Her intentions to dominate the world in a godly state outside of time doesnt stem from some childhood abuse or a lost love ( squall, etc ). Her only motivation is her insane hunger for ultimate power. The conquerers of old in real world history had no real motivation either. They simply wanted world domination just like Ulti.

So you see? Ultimecia doesnt need real intentions to dominate the earth when she has insane reasoning to do it for her. And we dont need theorys to explain something that makes sense when you think about in a real world sense.

After all, Bush = Hitler ( B = H ) doesnt make much sense either

What do you guys think about this? Does it make sense?

[Shin Gouken]

So Ultimecia's intentions dont really matter because when someone is insane, they dont tend to make much sense. Ulti ( to me ) appears insane and power mad. Her intentions to dominate the world in a godly state outside of time doesnt stem from some childhood abuse or a lost love ( squall, etc ). Her only motivation is her insane hunger for ultimate power. The conquerers of old in real world history had no real motivation either. They simply wanted world domination just like Ulti.

This is very commen in villains. Nobody questioned Skeletors reasons for wanting to dominate the world. Nor did anyone make any insane theories like Skeletor = Beastman (the S=B theory, well we know they are homosexual lovers anyway, that much was proven)



On your B=H theory........no comment

[Lychon]

Noj_R, those seem to be worthy considerations to me. But as far as Hitler's and Ultimecia's actions lacking crucial underlying causes, I don't agree.

Hitler was convinced that Germany had suffered unjustly in World War I due to the greed and corruption of the European Jews. This developed into a perpetuating obsession with the restoration of his "Aryan" race by destroying the enemy he deemed responsible for all the worlds ills, the Jews. Hence, this obsession turned him into a power-hungry, hateful man, who eventually became so driven by his beliefs that he lost all objectivity on matter and fell into insanity.

Ultimecia, on the other hand, seems to have no revealed history as to what caused her to become so obsessed with universal domination. As far as I can tell, there is always a cause for an event, and whether that cause is random or not doesn't change the effect it has on the world. Therefore, since Ultimecia's past is not revealed, and the story of Final Fantasy 8 is so incredibly complex, people tend to believe that something in the main plot is significantly or at least partly related to the final boss of the game (such as R=U).

What I don't believe to be true, albeit still possible, is that Ultimecia is just a random baddy who's actions merely coincide with the development of the main characters. She's got to be related somehow.

As far as Bush=Hitler, wtf? That doesn't make any sense, but I will admit that it is possible that Hitler's cerebral cortex and/or conciousness was somehow transplanted onto a young George Bush with hitherto undisclosed government technology, in effect creating the grandest conspiracy of all time: to make Hitler President of the United States of America! (Yes, even grander than the whole Jesus had descendants theory, and they will soon take over the world- for all you Da Vinci Code people...lol)

The A-Man

[Qurange]

Actually, there is a connection given.

We aren't given Ultimecia's motivations, and I personally neither like nor put much stock in the R=U theory (as it's been disproven), there is a reason that the main cast is linked to Ultimecia; a reason that she chose that time, of all times.

It stems from Junction Machine Ellone, and from the fact that FF8's time, I think, is rather set. Ultimecia used the machine, and saw a point in the far past that she could reach--why? Maybe she didn't know, but the reason, I think, is that Edea had her powers, and thus, she could reach Edea through Junction Machine Ellone. From there, she just needed a third point in time, as she didn't know of anyone in her past who might have had use of the JME.

There; no need for Rinoa to be something she isn't, while Seifer can easily be explained as a combination of ambition and magical influence.

[Noj_R]

Lychon I agree with your post as well.

My Hitler example was a little misleading as we both know it was a mixture of anger, revenge, political and financial strains on Germany that led to the rise of the nazi empire. I was trying to give a well known example of inanity in a place of power, just as Ulti is. I believe there are a number of examples of people in places of power soley for the reason of gaining more power ( which is how I perceive Ulti ).

The reason I believe her motivation is a simple lust for power is the failure of the game to put forth any other alternative to her actions. The R=U theory is dead rendering the S=G theory false, and J=U simply makes no sense seeing how there is no relation to any of the games. So I am made to believe ( and this explains for lack of Ulti character development ), that Ulti is simply an insane human with great powers who wishes to gain more power, this makes the most sense instead of making a theory up to explain for " missing plot points " and such.

It makes sense when added up with Dr. Odine's comment ( this isnt an exact quote ), " why would someone want to compress time, it does not matter ".

Ulti doesnt need a motive when her only motive is insanity, and this theory makes the most sense, at least to me.

As for the B=H theory, just a little political irony...

[Frontier-]

(SPOILER)I thought Rinoa was just possessed by ultimacia and so was edea, Before rinoa got "edeas powers" and, Because of that she got possessed by ultimacia, cuz ultimacia could use her "new" powers for "bad" , As she did to edea.I guess that ultimacias plan was to revive adel and use her powers to rule in "their" world... ? so NO

[*~Angel Wing~*]

Angel Wing: You should read through the thread before posting you know; we've already established that Rinoa is without a doubt, NOT Ultimecia, and cannot ever be her. :rolleyes2

.....It was 1:50AM okay...like I feel like reading through all that crap anyway... We already have a thread about this, and I was just saying how I saw Ultimecia at the end also, and how I thought she was Edea. And if you look below at _yeojina_'s post, you will see that my post had something to do with the topic. yeojina posted this 2 posts before me!!! So I wasn't going off topic if that's what you're getting at. Maybe YOU should read the thread all the way through!!!

I'm really sorry, but if Rinoa WAS Ultimecia, then she would be killing herself. Which would be impossible, because if Squall and co. DID kill Ultimecia, then Rinoa should've vanished forever (probably leaving Squall heartbroken and depressed), same with Squall fighting Griever. So therefore, the theory is false. Actually, I thought Griever was Seifer and Ultimecia was another form of Edea. Oh dammit, I have that choir song in my head from the beginning of the game. And it was there ever since I played it (6 months ago).

[dante the demon prince]

We don't say things like this to other members.

~Void

[Future Esthar]

and Ultimecia was another form of Edea.

Good to know I am not the only one.
Ulti=Edea=Julia.

The thing is:
The very assumption that she comes from the future was not even proved.Not even the doctor can.

[Sir Bahamut]

Sorry, Angel Wing, you are quite right; it was I who had not properly read your post. I skimmed through, and figured you were making another set of arguments for the R=U theory, when in fact, you were discussing Edea being Ultimecia (which by the way, is impossible too, as Edea is not a sorceress by the end of the game).

So sorry about that, again. About Ultimecia though, she's simply Ultimecia. She isn't anyone from the era that our heroes belong to. She was born in the future, and as a natural part of her human lifespan, grew up to become Ultimecia. It seems highly likely that she was driven to evil/madness because of history: the damage done by Ultimecia would have been recorded in history, meaning the eras after Squall would know that a sorceress would sooner or later arise, who would be Ultimecia. This would strengthen anti-sorceress attitudes probably to the point where sorceresses were persecuted from ther inception(remember Ultimecias speech through Edea to Galbadia, after killing the president; all about persecution of sorceresses etc.). Ultimecia was probably thus born into a world that hated her for crimes she had not yet commited, driving her into evil/madness.

This is a brief summary, of course. A full account on this theory can be found iin the FAQ I have referenced to earlier.

One final comment, which I hadn't yet spotted:

I'm really sorry, but if Rinoa WAS Ultimecia, then she would be killing herself. Which would be impossible, because if Squall and co. DID kill Ultimecia, then Rinoa should've vanished forever (probably leaving Squall heartbroken and depressed), same with Squall fighting Griever.

This is not a valid argument. By your logic, I should be dead right now, because at some point in my future I will die! Killing your future self has no bearing on your present self. It is only killing your past self that would cause a paradox.