The "Is Rinoa really you know who" Post- (Spoiler)

[Noj_R]

Good to know I am not the only one.
Ulti=Edea=Julia.

The thing is:
The very assumption that she comes from the future was not even proved.Not even the doctor can.

That is simply ridiculous...

Why do you guys have to make it more complicated than it is. There is no evidence suporting the idea that Ulti is anyone other than herself.
She is simply an insane witch hellbent on reaching a a godlike status outside the confines of time!

Nobody asks Bowser why he kidnaps Princess Peach all the time. it must be that he is really Toad in disguise! That would makes sense since Bowser has no motive, and the game MUST be more complicated than that. T = B...heh heh... :rolleyes2

The fact is Ulti is simply insane, and there is nobody else involved. QUit making the game more complicated than it is already

[Jessweeee♪]

This is not a valid argument. By your logic, I should be dead right now, because at some point in my future I will die! Killing your future self has no bearing on your present self. It is only killing your past self that would cause a paradox.

That's what I was about to say, but then I remembered about Time Compression. While they are in a time compressed world, every single moment is compressed into one. To kill someone here would mean they cease to exist, past, present, or future. So, rather than just traveling forward in time and killing your future self, you are in EVERY moment at once killing YOU (you, you. not future past or present you) infinite times.

The whole thing is impossible really what with all of the...um...infinity for lack of a better word.

Look!!! I managed to do that without getting my head looping around in circles!!!

[Shin Gouken]

That's what I was about to say, but then I remembered about Time Compression. While they are in a time compressed world, every single moment is compressed into one. To kill someone here would mean they cease to exist, past, present, or future. So, rather than just traveling forward in time and killing your future self, you are in EVERY moment at once killing YOU (you, you. not future past or present you) infinite times.

The whole thing is impossible really what with all of the...um...infinity for lack of a better word.

Look!!! I managed to do that without getting my head looping around in circles!!!

Isn't time compression simply used for making the jump into the future. They do not fight Ultimrcia in a time compressed world. Time is being compressed when they travel to Ultimecia's point in the time line. And then is compressed again after the battle to return to their own point in time

[Sir Bahamut]

That's what I was about to say, but then I remembered about Time Compression. While they are in a time compressed world, every single moment is compressed into one. To kill someone here would mean they cease to exist, past, present, or future. So, rather than just traveling forward in time and killing your future self, you are in EVERY moment at once killing YOU (you, you. not future past or present you) infinite times.

The whole thing is impossible really what with all of the...um...infinity for lack of a better word.

Look!!! I managed to do that without getting my head looping around in circles!!!

A good point: in a Time Compressed world, killing your future self would be exactly the same as killing yourself. HOWEVER, you're forgetting something: Time Compression was never completed!

It is stated several times, that ONLY Ultimecia could exist in a time compressed world. Since at no time do the heroes cease to exist, we can conclude that TC was never fully completed. Maybe very nearly, but never fully.

Isn't time compression simply used for making the jump into the future. They do not fight Ultimrcia in a time compressed world. Time is being compressed when they travel to Ultimecia's point in the time line. And then is compressed again after the battle to return to their own point in time

Not exactly. The timetravelling is possible because of time-compression, but is not it's main purpose. Time Compression is, as indicated by its name, meant to compress all of time into a single point, which Ultimecia could then absorb, giving her near limitless powers (she'd absorb all the sorceress powers for one). So when TC starts, time starts getting messed up, and the party can use their willpower to will themselves to Ultimecias time.

[Christmas]

The thing is:
The very assumption that she comes from the future was not even proved.Not even the doctor can.

The script proven it. WANNA SEE???

[Moon Rabbits]

Ultimecia is just nuts.

Why does no one ever ask why Kefka wanted to take over the planet, or X-Death, or Kuja?

All of them are insane and craved power.

[Christmas]

Laguna: That's the spirit! Then, Ellone sends Rinoa and [Ultimecia to
the past]! Ellone [brings back Rinoa]! Then [head to the future through
compressed time]! Ultimecia lives far in the future where none of us
can technically exist. There's only one way to make yourself exist in a
world like that! As friends, don't forget one another! As friends,
believe in one another! Believe in your friends' existence! And they'll
also believe in yours. To be friends, to like one another, and to love
one another... You can't do these things alone. You need somebody. Right,guys? What place reminds you of your friends? Imagine being in that
place with all your friends. Once time compression begins, think of
that place and try to get there! That's all! That place will welcome
you. You'll be able to get there no matter what period you're in! You
need love and friendship for this mission! And the courage to believe
it. It's all about love, friendship, and courage! I'm counting on you
guys!

Something to add on is that you might get send to HAPPYLAND upon defeated and not reviving your characters in time. This is because the bond is broken.

Also,from the info here show that Ultimecia is absorbing everything while fighting you in the end.

[Shin Gouken]

Not exactly. The timetravelling is possible because of time-compression, but is not it's main purpose. Time Compression is, as indicated by its name, meant to compress all of time into a single point, which Ultimecia could then absorb, giving her near limitless powers (she'd absorb all the sorceress powers for one). So when TC starts, time starts getting messed up, and the party can use their willpower to will themselves to Ultimecias time

Ah yes, of course

Ultimecia is just nuts.

Why does no one ever ask why Kefka wanted to take over the planet, or X-Death, or Kuja?

All of them are insane and craved power.

Kefka is just plain loopy. X-death is a really intelligent black mage (well,.... so so intelligent. He kinda didn't see the void comin did he)

People have left kefka alone, but theories on X-death have been discussed. He once used to be a tree y'know :P when he is engulfed by the void, its plainly obvious he isn't X-death anymore despite his name being Neo X-death. His motives completley change and some thought this could be the physical manifestion of the void. Some also thought that it could be Enuo as he once was able to control the void. anyway thats discussions already taken place in the ffv forum.

I agree entirely on Ultimecia being none other than herself though. Just because X-death, kefka and most obviously sephiroth were given back up stories, does not mean ultimecia has been too. The plot throughout the game leads up to an obvious deduction that a sorceress from the future is behind everything. The plot progresses nicely and and shows the face of everything that has happened at the end.

Furthermore, how can Ultimecia possibley be given any back up story when she is from the future. No-one knows who she is. It creates a mystery about her. That should be enough.

[Fatal Impurity]

I'm really sorry, but if Rinoa WAS Ultimecia, then she would be killing herself. Which would be impossible, because if Squall and co. DID kill Ultimecia, then Rinoa should've vanished forever (probably leaving Squall heartbroken and depressed), same with Squall fighting Griever. So therefore, the theory is false. Actually, I thought Griever was Seifer and Ultimecia was another form of Edea. Oh dammit, I have that choir song in my head from the beginning of the game. And it was there ever since I played it (6 months ago).

maybe they were fighting their manafested inner demons? and about that choir song its doin the same to me!

[Moon Rabbits]

Inner demons that take over the world?

No.

Well if Kefka can be 'just plain loopy' then I say so can Ultimecia. Zeromus does really have a clear objective either if I remember correct...nor does Yu Yevon, he's just kinda there and where he came from is never explained.

[*~Angel Wing~*]

Sorry, Angel Wing, you are quite right; it was I who had not properly read your post. I skimmed through, and figured you were making another set of arguments for the R=U theory, when in fact, you were discussing Edea being Ultimecia (which by the way, is impossible too, as Edea is not a sorceress by the end of the game).

So sorry about that, again. About Ultimecia though, she's simply Ultimecia. She isn't anyone from the era that our heroes belong to. She was born in the future, and as a natural part of her human lifespan, grew up to become Ultimecia. It seems highly likely that she was driven to evil/madness because of history: the damage done by Ultimecia would have been recorded in history, meaning the eras after Squall would know that a sorceress would sooner or later arise, who would be Ultimecia. This would strengthen anti-sorceress attitudes probably to the point where sorceresses were persecuted from ther inception(remember Ultimecias speech through Edea to Galbadia, after killing the president; all about persecution of sorceresses etc.). Ultimecia was probably thus born into a world that hated her for crimes she had not yet commited, driving her into evil/madness.

This is a brief summary, of course. A full account on this theory can be found iin the FAQ I have referenced to earlier.

One final comment, which I hadn't yet spotted:




This is not a valid argument. By your logic, I should be dead right now, because at some point in my future I will die! Killing your future self has no bearing on your present self. It is only killing your past self that would cause a paradox.

Thank you Sir Bahamut, I appreciate your apology, and I'm sorry if I sounded kinda mean in my last post... Just one more thing, I didn't post this last statement:

I'm really sorry, but if Rinoa WAS Ultimecia, then she would be killing herself. Which would be impossible, because if Squall and co. DID kill Ultimecia, then Rinoa should've vanished forever (probably leaving Squall heartbroken and depressed), same with Squall fighting Griever. So therefore, the theory is false. Actually, I thought Griever was Seifer and Ultimecia was another form of Edea. Oh dammit, I have that choir song in my head from the beginning of the game. And it was there ever since I played it (6 months ago).

_yeojina_ posted this 2 posts before MY post. Sorry for the confusion.

[Sir Bahamut]

I know that was not your post, don't worry. Sorry if that was the impression I gave.

[*~Angel Wing~*]

I know that was not your post, don't worry. Sorry if that was the impression I gave.

That's okay I was reading through my other post, and again, sorry for sounding bitchy, and thanks again for the nice apology...you're one out of many who would be so sincere about it. EVERYONE, FOLLOW SIR BAHAMUT'S EXAMPLE!!! WE NEED MORE GENTLEMEN LIKE HIM IN THE WORLD!!!:grinpink:

[Shin Gouken]

That's okay I was reading through my other post, and again, sorry for sounding bitchy, and thanks again for the nice apology...you're one out of many who would be so sincere about it. EVERYONE, FOLLOW SIR BAHAMUT'S EXAMPLE!!! WE NEED MORE GENTLEMEN LIKE HIM IN THE WORLD!!!:grinpink:

alright, no need to kiss his arse :rolleyes2

totally i agree. sir bahamut you the man

[*~Angel Wing~*]

alright, no need to kiss his arse :rolleyes2

totally i agree. sir bahamut you the man

I wasn't suckin' up, I was just letting everyone know that's how respectable people should act. OOOO I think somebody's jealous...