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Thread: How long was each Calm ?

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    Lives in a zoo Renmiri's Avatar
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    How long was each Calm ?

    According to GAMEFAQ, the FFX and FFX2 Ultimania guides post only 5 "Calm" periods (below), with High Summoners appearing in intervals of 600 years thru 90 years. Now, here is my problem with it:
    - We see that Yu Yevon takes only 9 years to rebuild Sin, as it was all it took for Sin to reappear after Braska defeated it.

    - Does this means Sin is "alive" and loose around Spira for centuries ?
    IMHO that is impossible. If Sin kills as we see it doing in FFX every single year during those large periods, the planet's population would be extinct after a while, say, 200 years

    - Did Yu Yevon take much longer to rebuild Sin initially ? i.e. did he take, say, 500 years to create the second Sin ?
    IMHO that is impossible. A threat that has not reappeared for a generation or two would not command such fear and devotion from people. Bevelle and Yevon's Church would lose a lot of it's prestige and influence after 100 - 150 years without Sin. The more "costly" tenets of the Church would be abandoned, i.e, Summoner training would be abandoned and so would be the machina prohibition

    As proof I submit the Catholic Church. Sure we still have people who believe Jesus will come back, even after 2,000 years of wait, but the power of the Church to run our daily life has been gone for a long time. There are very few people who still refrain from eating meat on Fridays and even less people who abide by all the other tenets in the Bible.
    There is no way people in Spira would still refrain from using machina after 200 years of no Sin!!!

    So what gives ?

    Approximately 1000 years ago
    - Using the power of these fayth, Yevon summons Dream Zanarkand - the memory of Zanarkand. He himself becomes Yu Yevon, and creates the first Sin. (The birth of Sin.)
    - Yunalesca, a summoner from Zanarkand, turns her husband Zaon into a fayth and destroys Sin with the Final Summoning. She remains on Spira as an Unsent
    - The second Sin appears publicly with Yunalesca's Final Aeon (Zaon) as its core. It destroys the remaining machina civilisations.

    600 years pass... With Sin killing thousands every year ?

    Approximately 400 years ago
    - Summoner Gandof defeats Sin with his Final Summoning and becomes the first high summoner in history.
    (This gives credence to Yevon's teachings, and doubts about the Temples subside.)
    GANDOF'S CALM
    - The third Sin appears publicly, with Gandof's Final Aeon as its core.

    170 years of Sin Killing ?!?!?

    Approximately 230 years ago
    - Summoner Ohalland, a former blitzball player, defeats Sin with his Final Summoning and becomes a high summoner.
    OHALLAND'S CALM
    - The fourth Sin appears publicly, with Ohalland's Final Aeon as its core.

    130 years of Sin Killing ?!?!?

    Approximately 100 years ago
    - Summoner Yocun, a former Crusader, defeats Sin with her Final Summoning and becomes a high summoner.
    YOCUN'S CALM
    - The fifth Sin appears publicly, with Yocun's Final Aeon as its core.

    90 years of Sin Killing ?!?!?

    10 years ago
    - Summoner Braska defeats Sin using Jecht as the fayth for his Final Summoning, and becomes a high summoner.
    BRASKA'S CALM


    9 years ago

    - The sixth Sin appears publicly, with Braska's Final Aeon (Jecht) as its core.

    1 year ago
    Sin reappears and kills Chappu

    http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?p=1496935
    Last edited by Renmiri; 01-20-2006 at 03:09 AM.
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  2. #2
    FinalCetra's Avatar
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    That is a very good question, I never took a close look at the FFX timeline. I just may have to do that.

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    Till we meet again! Christmas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renmiri
    According to GAMEFAQ, the FFX and FFX2 Ultimania guides post only 5 "Calm" periods (below), with High Summoners appearing in intervals of 600 years thru 90 years. Now, here is my problem with it:
    - We see that Yu Yevon takes only 9 years to rebuild Sin, as it was all it took for Sin to reappear after Braska defeated it.

    - Does this means Sin is "alive" and loose around Spira for centuries ?
    IMHO that is impossible. If Sin kills as we see it doing in FFX every single year during those large periods, the planet's population would be extinct after a while, say, 200 years

    Quote Originally Posted by FF VI
    How long are you going to let the destruction continue?
    Kefka: I've tapped into the ultimate power. Observe...!
    Kefka: Such magnificent power! You are like insects to me!
    Kefka: I will exterminate everyone, and everything!
    People will keep rebuilding the things you take from them!
    Kefka: Then I'll destroy those too. Why do people rebuild things they know are going to be destroyed? Why do people cling to life when they know they can't live forever? Think how meaningless each of your lives is!

    It's not the net result of one's life that's important! It's the day-to-day
    concerns, the personal victories, and the celebration of life... and love!
    It's enough if people are able to experience the joy that each day can bring!
    Quote Originally Posted by FF VI
    Kefka: I will destroy everything... I will create a monument to non-existence!
    Life will go on! There will always be people, and dreams!

    Quote Originally Posted by Renmiri
    - Did Yu Yevon take much longer to rebuild Sin initially ? i.e. did he take, say, 500 years to create the second Sin ?
    IMHO that is impossible. A threat that has not reappeared for a generation or two would not command such fear and devotion from people. Bevelle and Yevon's Church would lose a lot of it's prestige and influence after 100 - 150 years without Sin. The more "costly" tenets of the Church would be abandoned, i.e, Summoner training would be abandoned and so would be the machina prohibition

    As proof I submit the Catholic Church. Sure we still have people who believe Jesus will come back, even after 2,000 years of wait, but the power of the Church to run our daily life has been gone for a long time. There are very few people who still refrain from eating meat on Fridays and even less people who abide by all the other tenets in the Bible.
    There is no way people in Spira would still refrain from using machina after 200 years of no Sin!!!

    So what gives ?

    [/INDENT]
    That will depends on how strong the leaders of the Church is. Especially when they rule with an iron grip. Besides, a lot of Muslim still observes their religious practices passed down from long ago.

    The influence of the Yevon Church still remains after FF X which show that even without Sin, the Yevon Church still lives on inside the people's heart.

  4. #4
    Abandon All Hope Fatal Impurity's Avatar
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    i personally think the guides are wrong and that there were many summoners but those five were possibly the most honorable, memorable, powerful, impressive?

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    Till we meet again! Christmas's Avatar
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    Because they "defeat" Sin and bring about a Calm that's why.
    Last edited by Christmas; 01-20-2006 at 01:12 PM.

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    very interestig thread

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    Lives in a zoo Renmiri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omegaweapon2005
    i personally think the guides are wrong and that there were many summoners but those five were possibly the most honorable, memorable, powerful, impressive?
    Yeah, that is what I think too!
    Ohalland could be famous because he was a blitz player that turned into a summoner, a surprising thing for a celebrity to do: give his life for others

    Here on US, Pat Tillman was but one soldier among many but his name and his life stay with us for the same reason: surprising courage and dedication from someone so rich and famous.

    Gandorf could be famous because of the huge battle that created the Calm Lands Gorge

    Braska because he was the most recent Summoner

    Yokum ? Maybe because she was a crusader, i.e. not a monk

    The longest Sin killing spree is the 600 years between Yunaleska and Gandorf.

    I suppose Yu Yevon could take longer at his first try at rebuilding Sin (but then, how did he build Sin so quickly ?). And it could have taken one or two centuries for Sin to kill the population of a planet with millions of people (like ours) reducing their numbers to the few small cities we see on Yuna's Spira.. Centuries of killing would also make Sin pretty unforgettable and Yevon's Church pretty powerful.

    Still, 600 years is a long time for a killing machine like Sin to be running loose around the planet. IMHO any population would be extinct.
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    Maybe Sin was at some other part of the planet or just didnt kill as many people to begin with. Because it does say somewhere in FFX that each Sin was stronger then the previous one since it is made of the aeon that defeated the sin before it. Maybe the first was not that strong. Zanarkand had just spent numerous years in war and was on the brink of defeat when Yu Yevon created the first sin. This means that the city was probably not in that great of shape due to shortages in supplies and the city was also probably bombarded during the war destorying and weakening structures in the city. So it was easy for the first weaker sin to show up, destory the city, while never using an attack anywhere near as powerful as the sin made from Braska's final summon. The first sin may have been more of a pain in the butt then any real threat, maybe just sinking a ship here blowing a building over there and so on. After 600 years of this Gandorf final decided to end it and destroyed the first sin. Unknown to him sin would be reborn and be stronger then before. The stronger sin brought a much quicker reaction, although still a hundred plus years, because it was capable of killing and destroying more. So each time sin was destroyed and reborn it brought quicker reaction due to it being stronger, until it reached the strength of the final sin.
    Just my thoughts anyway.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renmiri
    Yeah, that is what I think too!
    Ohalland could be famous because he was a blitz player that turned into a summoner, a surprising thing for a celebrity to do: give his life for others
    For this you're using standards established in our world where celebrities are so self centered that they generally only help others if it suits their publicity. Sure, there may be exceptions, like this Tillman person you reference, but in general...

    Gandof could be famous because of the huge battle that created the Calm Lands Gorge

    Braska because he was the most recent Summoner

    Yokum ? Maybe because she was a crusader, i.e. not a monk

    The longest Sin killing spree is the 600 years between Yunaleska and Gandorf.
    These people, and Ohalland are famous for beating Sin. Thats it. They've each got their own history, like being a blitzer, or a former crusader, but regardless of their lives, they beat Sin. That is why they are famous, and that is why they each have a statue in the temples.

    Braska was a nobody, some might have called him a heretic for marrying and Al Bhed, and in Yevon, that is not a good thing. Regardless of how recent it was, if Yevon chose which High Summoners to have statues of, it'd be pretty certain he wouldn't be included, ever, and there would probably be different statues in each temple, representing High Summoners who are from that region. Thus it is reasonable to conclude that those with the large statues in the temples are those who have beaten Sin, the only ones.

    I suppose Yu Yevon could take longer at his first try at rebuilding Sin (but then, how did he build Sin so quickly ?). And it could have taken one or two centuries for Sin to kill the population of a planet with millions of people (like ours) reducing their numbers to the few small cities we see on Yuna's Spira.. Centuries of killing would also make Sin pretty unforgettable and Yevon's Church pretty powerful.

    Still, 600 years is a long time for a killing machine like Sin to be running loose around the planet. IMHO any population would be extinct.
    I guess the time for a rebuild varies, it may never be the same exactly. However, you assume that Sin is killig 24/7. Yet in the game, we often see it on its own, doing nothing (this may be in part due to jecht, but for convenience sake, I'll assume it's not). the only major kiling sprees are in kilika, and in Djose. Granted the events of the game take place over a week or two, so if this is indicative of sins behaviour, it may indicate between 20 to 40 attacks in total each year. Besides, with Summoners often trying to kill it, crusaders distracting it, and a general multitude of boats to chase, Sin would be pretty busy anyway...

    Also, there was likely to have been many more places to attack than we see when sin first appeared, and it seems to rarely completely destroy a place (kilika was farely intact. It appears that, even though roof and huts were destroyed, there is a large amount of kilika left afterwards, and only a dozen or so people were killed, if I'm counting the coffins right during the sending), and since sin cant be in more than one place at once, it may have taken time to whittle spira down to the handful of places that exist now...

    I will concede that if another 1000 years had gone by, all sentient life may have been erradicated.
    Last edited by Little Blue; 01-20-2006 at 04:52 PM.

  10. #10
    Ray "Bloody" Purchase! Crop's Avatar
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    I thaught it was 2 years each calm.

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    Reno's my man! <3 Fire_Emblem776's Avatar
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    no yuna says its been 10 years since the last calm

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    Lives in a zoo Renmiri's Avatar
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    I guess the combination of Sin growing stronger, Yu Yevon getting faster at rebuilding it, Sin's iddle periods and the initial population in Spira being much larger (all those destroyed ruins) could make the 1,000 years with only 6 High Summoners plausible.

    I will have to change my fan fiction yet again. Aaargh!!!
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    This may be a stupid question, but I am wondering why people didn't move further in to the land. Why continue to live at the coast when Sin's there? He's a sea monster, and will not pose a threat to anyone living away from the coast.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabris
    This may be a stupid question, but I am wondering why people didn't move further in to the land. Why continue to live at the coast when Sin's there? He's a sea monster, and will not pose a threat to anyone living away from the coast.
    Yet in the beginning FMV, Sin is seen floating above the city. I doubt that location would particuarly matter to Sin. Granted, it is usually seen swimmng, but it can be found flying, and many ruins are found inland, such as the ruins on Bikanel.

    Another possibility is that there are few places inland that are suitable. Both Besaid and Kilika woul need extensive forrestry to clear enough land to allow them to settle further inland, and the main continent is largely made up of mountainous regions, the only large, flat areas (looking at the world map) are the calm lands, which is unacceptable as it is the site of the final summoning, and a large plain to the east of Guadosalam. Building a home there, and abandoning all other coastal cities would make it very likely that Sin could attack and kill everyone at once...

  15. #15

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    I've been thinking along those lines myself, Aurons Ghost, and I agree that there aren't too many locations suitable for living in Spira. (Or, at least, the parts of Spira that we see). Of course, they could chop down the Kilika Forest and the Macalania Forest, although I doubt they'd do that - at least not the latter one. I don't think Spirans are as cynical as us.

    But I thought the inlands ruins scattered around Spira were broken partly because of the great war and partly because they weren't used anymore due to the teachings, and therefore they were left to the tender mercy of the passing of time...

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