Did you truly think that this was going to end any other way? A discussion like this is almost designed to fail, as inevitably it will degenerate into new FF games vs old FF games.Originally Posted by Neel With A Hat
Did you truly think that this was going to end any other way? A discussion like this is almost designed to fail, as inevitably it will degenerate into new FF games vs old FF games.
I know! I hate these stuupid VS threads
There are things old games have that new games don't have and vise versa, if people felt great reading everything characters said (16 bit) with no FMVs and simple music...............then fine
Other people like REAL FMVs, creative music, more detail and character voices.
These kinds of threads only lead to meaningless bashing, I admit I tend to bash older games but it's because of dumb threads like these.
I'm not the biggest fan of FFVII, but I will say that overall it was a pretty good RPG. much more so than VIII (more on that in a sec).
As for FFX-2, and this is for you devourer of worlds as well, FFX didnt need a sequal. The ending was perfect, Yes Yuna was sad, but so was the whole world. Yuna lost the person she had love, and had come to give her life meaning, the world had lost its leaders and religion, that gave their lives meaning. Yuna was the best person to lead the world because she had already been through a similar journey, and now had to embark on another.
This is why FFX-2 just destroyed everything great about the ending of FFX. Matters such as tragedy, and meaning of life, just arent sorted out in a few days, weeks, or years, its a lifelong search. Yet Yuna abandons her duties, abandons the people who need her, for Tidus. This was a copout. If there had to be a sequal, something Im not opposed to outright, than how about a sequal detailing her quest to lead and rebuild spira, as she finds new meaning in her life? a more quieter, thoughtful RPG? Its not that she learned to sing, its just that her becoming a J-Pop star was the stupidest idea ever. She's a religious figure, and it just felt like some personal fanboyish fantasy to see her up there rather than a natural character arc. Its not that she shed her clothes, its that it was done in such a cheap way that there wasnt any point to it rather than draw in the drooling fanboys. Half the damn time she seemed like a side character from clueless rather than a religious icon. It really felt as though Nomura hated sakaguchi for upstaging him in FFX, and wanted to spit all over his characters rather than create a story that held water. And I'd sooner believe that than believe Nomura was actually TRYING to be serious.
FFX had a great story, and a very thought provoking ending that made you feel something, hope and tragedy mingling together. It had a message, and delivered it in a very subtle manner. FFX-2 just cheapened everything that was great about FFX's story.
and yes, X-2 did have a great gameplay system, but the really stupid story, just keeps hitting me over the head and keeps me from enjoying it.
Perhaps I need to elaborate. In japan FFVIII's story would be called placed in the shojo (meaning for girls) genre. Sailor moon is a good example of shojo. The thing is, FFVIII ripped off every cliche imaginable. Not a bad thing in itself, as so do many shojo storylines. But FFVIII was very sloppy in its execution. In shojo, the moody, dark, and angsty bishonen ("pretty boy") always lightens up and has a tragic past and a good heart waiting to be set free. I mean ALWAYS. thing its its always during the softening process that the romance happens, the girl see's the more tender qualities buried beneath tradgedy and confusion. Florence Nightingale Syndrome kicks in, the world is endangered, the bishonen chooses to take on the role of hero, love blossoms, evil is conquered, they live happily ever after. Thing with squall is that everyone falls in love with him BEFORE he opens up. What sense does this make? sure he's good looking, but in shojo so is everyone. If this is the case why arent the gals falling for seifer, or Irvine, or Zell (sure the tattoo is an issue, but some girls like that)? It makes no sense for Squall to have that many admirers before the emotional blossoming process kicks in.
And yes, rinoa was a slut. not just that but she has poor taste in men, and I really cant see anything else in her that is likeable. The CGI is the most likeable thing about her (and squall for that matter).
As for the storyline, As squall goes through the blossoming stage, he just becomes more and more perfect. Alien race? he's a brilliant diplomat. The school is under attack, he's a tactician, motivational speaker, and dynamic leader. Girl asks him to dance, he ends up learning incredibly quickly. I mean seriously, suspension of disbelief is one thing, but this was flat out overcompensation on nomura's part. Babylon 5 creator Michael J Stracynski once stated that he doesnt believe in perfect characters. This is what makes him a good writer, he created characters that feel true to life. Characters we can see ourselves in, for better and worse. In FFVIII, its all about the bling baby. Nothing more. The more squall opens up, the more perfect he is, instead of having to learn to live and be something more which is what you would expect from someone who's been socially comatose for ten years.
This is what separates sakaguchi from nomura. In sakaguchi's tales, characters grow step by step. Choice by choice. nomura prefers characters that are often flawless. An emotional scar heals and the character is a god among men, where in sakaguchi's tale's its more of a continual wrestling with ones self, which I find is much more true to life and interesting for storytelling concepts.
But yah, Nomura's storytelling incompetence aside, I would still say that Final Fantasy really hasnt changed much, save that its prettier, and at times a bit longer.
Your lack of faith in Disgaea disgusts me.*Nightslash*
Kaycee says (12:06 AM):
whos' obama?
Quoted for truth.
Nope, purposedly bias and misleading if you ask me.
I'm tired of TITANIC based endings, it's been done so many times in RPGs that it's already sickening
:twak: :fencing: :yuck:
What...? Happy endings are done way more
Granted, I prefer a happy ending myself, as I'm a fan of closure. But that has nothing to do with the frequency in which this occurs.
Whatever you say no longer has any relevance to me.They're not making the games for YOU.
RPGS tend to do happy endings a lot more.I'm tired of TITANIC based endings, it's been done so many times in RPGs that it's already sickening
People keep quoting that. Am I the only one that understood it? He was saying they don't make games targeted at a specific person. i.e. "They don't make games for you (per se), they make games for everyone". Least common denominator stuff. The more people you try to make a game for, the suckier it is. Stick to awesome niches. But that's a topic for a different thread
But they do make games for me and everyone else
I personally dont care how a RPG or story ends, so long as its appropriate. The final hour or so of Titanic was the ONLY good thing about the movie. Tragic Or Happy, I dont care so long as it makes sense and the point of the story sticks with you.
"titanic" style endings, or Bitter/Sweet as they are more commonly called, are often used to pull on ye old heart strings. They allow for some tradgedy to occur, making you feel sad, but at the same time they allow for some sense of joy, or hope to set in as well. Bitter/Sweet endings lend a storyline a true to life feel, whereas "Mega Happy Endings" can come accross Hackneyed or contrived if the writers dont know what they are doing. at the end of FFIX Its hinted at the fact that Vivi has died, yet you see he managed to sire a great deal of progeny (way ta go Playa) and actually went into that good night satisfied and happy with the life he lead. Then you see everyone else is living happily, Steiner and Beatrix have gotten together, Zidaine returns from the dead, Freya and her boytoy are an item again, everyone is happily ever after despite the tradgedy, and FFIX ends with a round of applause (literally) from everyone in the audience. Wheras Nomura would have likely found an antidote or spell to keep vivi alive, Bitter Sweet endings, when used properly, just generate a deeper emotional resonnance.
You may not like em, but there are alot of people that do, or can appreciate them so long as the story makes sense. I got nothing against Mega happy endings, so long as its well written, but I like the Bitter/sweet Vibe as well. Whatever the writer thinks will make a better story is fine with me, so long as its interesting, and well told.
My experience with FF games is pretty simple.
I played FF2 for the SNES in 1992 or '93, can't recall exactly. But, you know, before FF3 came out for the SNES. I was in line to buy FF3 for the SNES. I bought FF7 before I bought a playstation. I just rented one every weekend until I saved up enough to buy one.
I was in line to buy FF8 for hours and hours...
Then I got it home and took it back the next day.
You see, storyline takes creativity. Writing a catchy storyline is tough. Developing catchy, addictive gameplay is a lot of work. But when Squaresoft made Final Fantasy VII, they realized something: there's no need to waste money developing story and gameplay when graphics can sell the game. You see, any idiot can make some cool looking graphics. Graphics are easy. Probably the easiest part of developing an RPG. So you make a game with good graphics, and sacrifice on the story and gameplay.
That's what Square has done, since FF7. They scrapped gameplay and story in favor of cheap graphics.
Britney's Dance Beat has excellent graphics. But I will never play it.
Graphics don't make a game. At least, they shouldn't. They should support the gameplay and story. But when Square realized they could sell games on name and eye-candy, they decided to save some money, and advertise on the graphical end.
Unfortunately, it seems to be working.
FF stories have gotten more shallow, over time. Play Final Fantasy VI. Seriously. The freaking world gets destroyed. In the middle of the game. The world gets beat up so bad that none of the continents stay in tact. That's heavy stuff. I never would have guessed to do something like that was coming. Usually that type of thing happens in the epilogue, not in the middle of the game, when you still have 10-20 hours of gameplay left (if you're shooting for mastery, which I usually do).
FFX's story is far too bizzare. They seemed to have run out of ideas, so they were like, "Um, what if..." and I won't say the rest, because I don't want to ruin more than I already did with FFVI.
They put a lot of effort into 7 because they hadn't yet discovered they could still sell games without effort. But as soon as 7 was what it was, they got the picture, and since, it's been all graphics and so forth.
Um, do you have any idea how much time goes into the graphics in video games? Probably almost as much time as the programming, if not more. It’s not something ‘any idiot’ can do.
Yes it is. Any idiot with a degree in that field can do it. But creativity is a lot harder to come by. There's no way to "teach" someone how to create a beautiful story or an addictive gameplay system. But you can teach someone how to develop graphics using a computer program. Just about anyone can learn to use program for creating graphics.
And it doesn’t take creativity to create wonderful graphics? Keep in mind that someone has to design everything within the game. If that doesn’t take creativity I don’t know what does.
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