At last the Carthaginian movie

[Ancient Seductress]

After so long the actor Vin Deisel is finally coming out with the movie about the greatest general in history "Hannibal Barca".Already this movie has been in production for 2 years and may be completed this year.There is already alot of Controversy over the matter for one Hannibal barca was a legendary hero of Jaffar's people "carthage" And vin just doesent have the High Stature that Hannibal had, and two the Controversy Fox released claiming most of the ancient carthaginians where Dark Skinned Indigenous Native Black Africans wich there not there Fair Skinned Red Brute Poeni People from modern day lebanon.This stupidity is completly false and very sad to steal onther people's identity.Vin has wanted to do Hannibal for some time and he looks very Mediterranean,he's the perfect guy for this role even tho he doesent look like much like the hero Hannibal Barca.


Know I for one cant wait until it comes out as it is
Half of my native heratige
Jaffar will be so Happy
Vin has wanted to do Hannibal barca for some time
Proposal came back from Studios with a $200 million price tag
Vin decided to do most of the pre-production stuff himself to cut costs
Vin has stated he would direct it (another cost saver)
Vin has researched it in meetings with Mel Gibson and others
Vin will look so good half naked in a loin cloth type skirt :laughing:
Vin has scouted sites in Spain and north africa (Arab Region) for filming
Vin will make Hannibal of this we have no doubt ~ his determination will allow nothing less~ we will just continue waiting with baited breath

As for the Controversy this is indeed madness, how the hell can fox be claiming the ancient phoenicians are in fact native africans this is theft and very very low,I am very relived everyone for the most part has ignored them.I also suggest everyone learn about the ancient carthaginians and how they completly Thrashed the romans and the greeks

[SoulTaker*]

After so long the actor Vin Deisel is finally coming out with the movie about the greatest general in history "Hannibal Barca".Already this movie has been in production for 2 years and may be completed this year.There is already alot of Controversy over the matter for one Hannibal barca was a legendary hero of Jaffar's people "carthage" And vin just doesent have the High Stature that Hannibal had, and two the Controversy Fox released claiming most of the ancient carthaginians where Dark Skinned Indigenous Native Black Africans wich there not there Fair Skinned Red Brute Poeni People from modern day lebanon.This stupidity is completly false and very sad to steal onther people's identity.Vin has wanted to do Hannibal for some time and he looks very Mediterranean,he's the perfect guy for this role even tho he doesent look like much like the hero Hannibal Barca.


Know I for one cant wait until it comes out as it is
Half of my native heratige
Jaffar will be so Happy
Vin has wanted to do Hannibal barca for some time
Proposal came back from Studios with a $200 million price tag
Vin decided to do most of the pre-production stuff himself to cut costs
Vin has stated he would direct it (another cost saver)
Vin has researched it in meetings with Mel Gibson and others
Vin will look so good half naked in a loin cloth type skirt :laughing:
Vin has scouted sites in Spain and north africa (Arab Region) for filming
Vin will make Hannibal of this we have no doubt ~ his determination will allow nothing less~ we will just continue waiting with baited breath

As for the Controversy this is indeed madness, how the hell can fox be claiming the ancient phoenicians are in fact native africans this is theft and very very low,I am very relived everyone for the most part has ignored them.I also suggest everyone learn about the ancient carthaginians and how they completly Thrashed the romans and the greeks

Some of your history is incorrect, although Hannibal was not an "african" as we know them today, they infantry was made up of mostly African spearmen and African mercenaries, the pheonicians did not have a black skin color, but I am pretty sure they were darker than the average white person if since they were already living on the hot african continent for some 2,000 years before carthages destruction.THis is one of my most favorite wars in ancient history, and Hannibal was a great leader, but to bad his fellow carthaginians were stupid cowards or he might have beat Rome. Im interested to see how they do the battle of Canae(spelling) and his defeat by Scipio Africanus.

[GooeyToast]

If they do it right, this could be a great movie. Hannibal was an excellent general, and definetly an important historical figure. I'm also interested as to how they'd pull of Canne and portray Scipio, considering Cannae was one hell of a bloody battle. It would be awesome if they opened the movie with a shot of Hannibal as a young kid swearing to his dad to "Destroy Rome!"

[Ancient Seductress]

It would be awesome if they opened the movie with a shot of Hannibal as a young kid swearing to his dad to "Destroy Rome!"

Hehe yeah that would be so cute, hannibal a small child vowing vengence for his father

Some of your history is incorrect, although Hannibal was not an "african" as we know them today, they infantry was made up of mostly African spearmen and African mercenaries

This part of your history is false, while Carthage does not use its own citizens for war rather it hires mercenaries using its limitless treasury.However this does not mean carthage has only a complete mercanery army, no! carthage forms mercaneries into infantry and calavary of its armies, while its own citizens the backbone of its armies where the Heavy Spear Infantry called "Poeni Infantry" meaning Phoeni(phoenician).These infantry carry large shields almost twice the size of a man and heavy long spears that can lock with there shields to form a carthaginian phalanx.These men are drawn from the Self Reliant carthaginian citizenry.The Mercinaries of carthage where not from africa they where drawn from Sicily,Gual,Berber Barbarian Warriors, and mostly Iberians.The african Mercinaries your talking about are the Numdians who where Tribes Of Kybles orginaly from Yemen and where the greatest horsemen in history.But they where not Black Africans they where Red Arabs from Yemen.The Elephants was something that the carthaginian borrowed from the Hellinc people(greeks who conqouered the persian).At one time carthage used mercenary Spear Men from Libya, but again thats "North Africa" made up of Berber Tribes not Black Africans of Central Africa and Southern Africa.The Calvary of carthage where the best in the world and unmatched and they where drawn from Numedia and from the carthaginian sacred band calavary.Onther unit, one of legendary status called the Sacred Band where the military Elite of carthage.At first they where only formed to fight the Greeks in Sicily, they where called the Sacred Band because there weapons and armor came from the "Temples of Bhaal" wich where sacred.The weapons where given to them by "Bhaal The Cloud Rider".The Sacred Band would later form into Officer corps for the carthaginian mercenary armies, most of sacred band where Females who before served as priestess for the Temples.

the pheonicians did not have a black skin color, but I am pretty sure they were darker than the average white person if since they were already living on the hot african continent for some 2,000 years before carthages destruction.

Your half right here, North Africa's Sun is the glory of Carthage and no other place does it shine more brightly then on those shores.The Carthaginians are not all white but more arab and Vin Diesil looks very Mediterranean, looks almost like my father to.But in no way where there skins black, infact most carthaginians where pale, I dont know why but in Tunis and in North Africa in general theres a real "Cultural Fear" of the sun, people tend to stay away from it and keep to the shades. Some of my neighbors in Algeria look pale as ice nobody goes into the sun its just way to hot a few seconds and it will burn your skin.

THis is one of my most favorite wars in ancient history, and Hannibal was a great leader, but to bad his fellow carthaginians were stupid cowards or he might have beat Rome.

This is completly flase as well.First off iam going to tell you about the carthaginian goverment as it will give you a better understanding of what I will tell you later.Carthage created the system "The Republic".Before Queen Diedo left to wander the world as she has always done she entrusted the tribes of carthage to elect there own Leaders to form into a group of men(the Senators) who would rule the state of affairs of the city.The tribes would present A young men or woman at the ages of 17 to represent them as agents in the counsel.Each one depending on there experiance would have a level of responsibility over the counsel and each one had a certain role to play in the state of affairs in the city.More so the woman had more power in carthage and in fact where the dominate figures within the city.The Tempels of carthage have equal power.The Tempel of Bhaal protects the city and controls the military of carthage and kept united the ethnic groups of North Africa(berbers,arab yemens,Libyans,Phoenician,Warrior Tribes of the atlas mountains,).The Temple of Tanit is dedicated to Tanit the goddess of fertility also know as the pure goddess,the pale goddess, the white blood goddess.The Temple of Tanit Handels the many tribes of carthage and is worshiped to allow the souls of dead to rise to the "Throne Of Souls" where Tanit remains waiting for her sister Diedo to Return.The Temple of Milqart is dedicated to Milqart the god of trade and fortune or doom for carthage and is the patron god of the city.The Temple manages trade and the econemy of carthage.The temple also controls most of the ports on the coast and controls also the Fleets of Carthage.The population of Carthage is hundreds of Tribes Each one with an elected Agent in the Senate.

Carthage was a maritime city state.And like all city states(Troy,Sparta,Babylon,..etc) the people where more then just patriotic, or have a feeling of home toward there city, but more a deep Love For there city as if its the only thing in the world to them,The city has more value then the gods more value then the earth that it is on,every blade of grass every stone and drop of water is loved utterly by its people.Even the moon that reveals itself at night and the sun that rises at day is loved as part of the city alone.The Carthaginians where completly behind Hannibal, they praised his name in the city and threw festivals in his honor.When news came to Carthage that hannibal has crossed the alps the people Held a massive parade within the city.The Temples struggeled against the senate to send any kind of help to Hannibal, The sacred band where bared from the port of Carthage by the High Priest of Bhaal to keep them from going to Hannibal's aid and the fleets where withdrawn by the demands of the senate to protect Serdinia an island of no importance.So your Half right the Senate was completly Jealous of Hannibal and saw him as a threat to there power so they basicly Abandon him in italy to face of against rome himeself.When Hannibal having Distoyed seven roman armies was when he began to wain a bit while the romans just kept rasing more and bigger armies against him.When his brother got news of his dear brother surrounded(even tho hannibal cut off the roman Alliance in italy still the romans had enough to send at him) He quickly took a fleet of Tiriems to spain where he raised an army of 50,000 Iberian mercinaries and Rushed head long into rome to save his brother.It was a disaster the romans knew he was coming and sent two armies to ambush him and they did, his brother rushed in like a bull but the romans where waiting.They distroyed his army and captured him in wich case In a barbaric roman fashion they then Beheaded him and threw his head into Hannibal Barca's encampment as if to taunt him.The ancient historians can only describe him as a "Tearfull Hannibal".Having Lost his brothers and father to the romans he set out into what would be the greatest battle in history in vengence for his family He would distroy the romans at the battle of Cannae

[SoulTaker*]

Hehe yeah that would be so cute, hannibal a small child vowing vengence for his father




This part of your history is false, while Carthage does not use its own citizens for war rather it hires mercenaries using its limitless treasury.However this does not mean carthage has only a complete mercanery army, no! carthage forms mercaneries into infantry and calavary of its armies, while its own citizens the backbone of its armies where the Heavy Spear Infantry called "Poeni Infantry" meaning Phoeni(phoenician).These infantry carry large shields almost twice the size of a man and heavy long spears that can lock with there shields to form a carthaginian phalanx.These men are drawn from the Self Reliant carthaginian citizenry.The Mercinaries of carthage where not from africa they where drawn from Sicily,Gual,Berber Barbarian Warriors, and mostly Iberians.The african Mercinaries your talking about are the Numdians who where Tribes Of Kybles orginaly from Yemen and where the greatest horsemen in history.But they where not Black Africans they where Red Arabs from Yemen.The Elephants was something that the carthaginian borrowed from the Hellinc people(greeks who conqouered the persian).At one time carthage used mercenary Spear Men from Libya, but again thats "North Africa" made up of Berber Tribes not Black Africans of Central Africa and Southern Africa.The Calvary of carthage where the best in the world and unmatched and they where drawn from Numedia and from the carthaginian sacred band calavary.Onther unit, one of legendary status called the Sacred Band where the military Elite of carthage.At first they where only formed to fight the Greeks in Sicily, they where called the Sacred Band because there weapons and armor came from the "Temples of Bhaal" wich where sacred.The weapons where given to them by "Bhaal The Cloud Rider".The Sacred Band would later form into Officer corps for the carthaginian mercenary armies, most of sacred band where Females who before served as priestess for the Temples.



Your half right here, North Africa's Sun is the glory of Carthage and no other place does it shine more brightly then on those shores.The Carthaginians are not all white but more arab and Vin Diesil looks very Mediterranean, looks almost like my father to.But in no way where there skins black, infact most carthaginians where pale, I dont know why but in Tunis and in North Africa in general theres a real "Cultural Fear" of the sun, people tend to stay away from it and keep to the shades. Some of my neighbors in Algeria look pale as ice nobody goes into the sun its just way to hot a few seconds and it will burn your skin.



This is completly flase as well.First off iam going to tell you about the carthaginian goverment as it will give you a better understanding of what I will tell you later.Carthage created the system "The Republic".Before Queen Diedo left to wander the world as she has always done she entrusted the tribes of carthage to elect there own Leaders to form into a group of men(the Senators) who would rule the state of affairs of the city.The tribes would present A young men or woman at the ages of 17 to represent them as agents in the counsel.Each one depending on there experiance would have a level of responsibility over the counsel and each one had a certain role to play in the state of affairs in the city.More so the woman had more power in carthage and in fact where the dominate figures within the city.The Tempels of carthage have equal power.The Tempel of Bhaal protects the city and controls the military of carthage and kept united the ethnic groups of North Africa(berbers,arab yemens,Libyans,Phoenician,Warrior Tribes of the atlas mountains,).The Temple of Tanit is dedicated to Tanit the goddess of fertility also know as the pure goddess,the pale goddess, the white blood goddess.The Temple of Tanit Handels the many tribes of carthage and is worshiped to allow the souls of dead to rise to the "Throne Of Souls" where Tanit remains waiting for her sister Diedo to Return.The Temple of Milqart is dedicated to Milqart the god of trade and fortune or doom for carthage and is the patron god of the city.The Temple manages trade and the econemy of carthage.The temple also controls most of the ports on the coast and controls also the Fleets of Carthage.The population of Carthage is hundreds of Tribes Each one with an elected Agent in the Senate.

Carthage was a maritime city state.And like all city states(Troy,Sparta,Babylon,..etc) the people where more then just patriotic, or have a feeling of home toward there city, but more a deep Love For there city as if its the only thing in the world to them,The city has more value then the gods more value then the earth that it is on,every blade of grass every stone and drop of water is loved utterly by its people.Even the moon that reveals itself at night and the sun that rises at day is loved as part of the city alone.The Carthaginians where completly behind Hannibal, they praised his name in the city and threw festivals in his honor.When news came to Carthage that hannibal has crossed the alps the people Held a massive parade within the city.The Temples struggeled against the senate to send any kind of help to Hannibal, The sacred band where bared from the port of Carthage by the High Priest of Bhaal to keep them from going to Hannibal's aid and the fleets where withdrawn by the demands of the senate to protect Serdinia an island of no importance.So your Half right the Senate was completly Jealous of Hannibal and saw him as a threat to there power so they basicly Abandon him in italy to face of against rome himeself.When Hannibal having Distoyed seven roman armies was when he began to wain a bit while the romans just kept rasing more and bigger armies against him.When his brother got news of his dear brother surrounded(even tho hannibal cut off the roman Alliance in italy still the romans had enough to send at him) He quickly took a fleet of Tiriems to spain where he raised an army of 50,000 Iberian mercinaries and Rushed head long into rome to save his brother.It was a disaster the romans knew he was coming and sent two armies to ambush him and they did, his brother rushed in like a bull but the romans where waiting.They distroyed his army and captured him in wich case In a barbaric roman fashion they then Beheaded him and threw his head into Hannibal Barca's encampment as if to taunt him.The ancient historians can only describe him as a "Tearfull Hannibal".Having Lost his brothers and father to the romans he set out into what would be the greatest battle in history in vengence for his family He would distroy the romans at the battle of Cannae

Thats what an ancient "phoenician" (a greek name meaning purple people" looked like, atleast thats how they portrayed themselves, they were from the area of canaan, ancient historical Jewish documents claim that the canaanites were flat nosed, dark skinned with kinks in their hair. Not debating whether Hannibal was black or white, their will be enough of that argument surfacing when these movies come, (Denzel Washington is set to play Hannibal in a Fox version of the movie), though this would be just as bad as having a Anglo-Saxon playing Hannibal, since I believe Hanniibal was neither black nor white but like you say more resembling a modern day Arab, Vin Diesel although im questioning his acting ability would be perfect in terms of looks, he is half black and half italian, if you wanted to be true to what Hannibal resembled it would probably be more of an Egyptian complexion, since ancient Egyptian drawings of Phoenicians show them in that Brick Red color you discribe.

I question your statement that Hannibal didnt have a sufficient amount of black africans in his army, first off, the population of Yemen is about 40% black african, while Saudi Arabia also has a significant African presence with 15% of its population as being black, Yemen was part of the Ethiopian empire for awhile too, the kingdom of Aksum in 1st century AD, and we know that Ethiopia is black african dominated, and they speak a semitic language, the same language as Hannibal. Arabs did not enter this area until upwards of the 7th century.

And you claim that the Carthiginian's thrashed the Romans and Greeks, although they wons some battles against the Romans all largely due to Hannibal, they lost or drew in all 6 wars with the Greeks and Romans, they briefly had some success against Greec when they held Sicily for a short time but thats it, in fact Pyrrhus a greek commander was fighting against both Rome and Carthage for a time and he never lost battle, but he had to withdraw to Greece after suffering heavy casualties in some brutal fights with Rome.

Im not saying that the Carthaginian people were cowards but their rulers sure were, they were afraid of Rome, their whole idea was to not politically back Hannibal because if he lost they wanted to say that he wasnt acting on Carthage's behalf and that he was a rebel, Rome didnt by it in the end. After Hannibals amazing victory at Cannae with his forces only numbering 40,000 and Rome's upwards of 90,000 it should have been a decisive victory. But he had now means of sieging Rome, so he sent the rings of the fallen Romans to the Carthaginian rulers in proof of his victory so they would send him reinforcements, but they diclined either out of fear or jealousy, either way Hannibal couldnt seize Rome so he wandered the italian peninsula for some years plundering. Rome proved the old adage true "whatever doesnt kill you makes you stronger". Scipio Africanus was at the battle and studied Hannibals tactics, he slowly rebuilt the Roman army, freeing gladiators in return for service, while Carthage just smurfed around, Scipio reconquered Spain and in a brilliant ploy, knowing he couldnt defeat Hannibal on his own terms took the war to Carthage, Hannible tried using elephants but Scipio new his tactics and simply side stepped em and completely routed the Carthaginian forces, Scipio studied Hannibals calvalry and totally monilized Romes army, Hannible was forced on the run and years later he ended up taking his own life. Some years later Scipio's grandson would end up completely destroying Carthage and selling the 50,000 Carthaginian survivors into slavery, some say he even sowed the earth with salt so nothing would ever grow their. Rome would go on to rule western europe and arabia for another 700 years.

I hope they do this movie justice since it was a great story, I hope it doesnt turn into another Alexander, but I doubt their is any danger of Vin Diesel over acting.

[Ancient Seductress]

I question your statement that Hannibal didnt have a sufficient amount of black africans in his army, first off, the population of Yemen is about 40% black african

I question where you came up with this statistic?

And you claim that the Carthiginian's thrashed the Romans and Greeks, although they wons some battles against the Romans all largely due to Hannibal, they lost or drew in all 6 wars with the Greeks and Romans, they briefly had some success against Greec when they held Sicily for a short time but thats it, in fact Pyrrhus a greek commander was fighting against both Rome and Carthage for a time and he never lost battle, but he had to withdraw to Greece after suffering heavy casualties in some brutal fights with Rome

Ill sum this up in a few short words, "the carthaginians had the 1st and 2nd punic war won from start to finnish, only at the very end did the romans amazingly came around and in one swoop forced carthage to surrender". However this should not be looked upon as a defeat for carthage, if you study the ancient texts you will start getting a clear picture of carthage being the victor.

After Hannibals amazing victory at Cannae with his forces only numbering 40,000 and Rome's upwards of 90,000 it should have been a decisive victory.

This however is completly false!The Roman army numbered around 100,000 while hannibal had only 20,000.At the end of the battle hannibal eradicated the roman army completly with all its senators, taking only 6,000 casualties.This won him a great place in history.


And as for the movie heres some info, the movie will be in the Ancient punic language much like the passion of the christ was in latin(Vin is learning a new language :) ).As for Vin hes very excited about it.And the way he describes carthage and all its glory and greatness makes me belive he will do it right.One for the history books.

[SoulTaker*]

I question where you came up with this statistic?



Ill sum this up in a few short words, "the carthaginians had the 1st and 2nd punic war won from start to finnish, only at the very end did the romans amazingly came around and in one swoop forced carthage to surrender". However this should not be looked upon as a defeat for carthage, if you study the ancient texts you will start getting a clear picture of carthage being the victor.



This however is completly false!The Roman army numbered around 100,000 while hannibal had only 20,000.At the end of the battle hannibal eradicated the roman army completly with all its senators, taking only 6,000 casualties.This won him a great place in history.


And as for the movie heres some info, the movie will be in the Ancient punic language much like the passion of the christ was in latin(Vin is learning a new language ).As for Vin hes very excited about it.And the way he describes carthage and all its glory and greatness makes me belive he will do it right.One for the history books.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punic_Wars Carthage won some great battles but at the end of the day they lost every war, and were destroyed. Hannibal's countrymen just didnt have the vision he did. I dont see how you could say Carthage was the victor if they had to pay tribute to Rome and ended up being destroyed. Im glad your excited about this movie, I hope it will be great as well, but we know it wont have a happy ending.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Aksum -this is a detail of the Aksum Ethiopian kingdom that conquered Yemen and many other Arab countries from 500BC to 100AD, Ethopian soldiers were known for their superior fighting ability and military prowess, and were recruited as mercenaries thorought Rome and the middle east for many centuries.

This however is completly false!The Roman army numbered around 100,000 while hannibal had only 20,000.At the end of the battle hannibal eradicated the roman army completly with all its senators, taking only 6,000 casualties.This won him a great place in history

The combined forces of the two consuls totaled 70,000 heavily-armed infantry, 2,400 Roman cavalry and 4,000 allied horse (involved in the actual battle) and, in the two fortified camps, 2,600 heavily-armed men, 7,400 lightly-armed men (a total of 10,000), so that the total strength the Romans brought to the field amounts to 86,400 men. Opposing them was a Carthaginian army composed of 30,000 heavy infantry, 6,000 light infantry, and 8,000 cavalry in the battle itself, irrespective of detachments.
So exact numbers were 86,400 Romans against 44,000 Carthaginians. Source-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cannae

You seem to no alot about your history, glad to see a fellow history nut on the forums You'd probably be glad to know that they are doing a film based off the Battle of Thermopylae the tale of 300 Spartan warriors battle against a army of 20,000 Persians, it will be based off of Franks Millers comic book titled 300.

[Ancient Seductress]

Carthage won some great battles but at the end of the day they lost every war, and were destroyed. Hannibal's countrymen just didnt have the vision he did. I dont see how you could say Carthage was the victor if they had to pay tribute to Rome and ended up being destroyed. Im glad your excited about this movie, I hope it will be great as well, but we know it wont have a happy ending.

Yes, Carthage's tale is a sad one.But Carthage itself was a great city of many hero's(Hanno,Hamlicar,Hasdarbul,Hannibal,Kalshien,Sosan,
Diedo).It was only the senate of carthage that kept Carthage from Hannibal Barca.However even then we know very little about carthage, every text every record distroyed by the Romans.

this is a detail of the Aksum Ethiopian kingdom that conquered Yemen and many other Arab countries from 500BC to 100AD, Ethopian soldiers were known for their superior fighting ability and military prowess, and were recruited as mercenaries thorought Rome and the middle east for many centuries.

Yes but thats a record of yemen in 500BC, the yemen iam talking about is 4000 BC Era.Yemen at that time migrated to north africa where they setteled there as Berbers.

You seem to no alot about your history, glad to see a fellow history nut on the forums You'd probably be glad to know that they are doing a film based off the Battle of Thermopylae the tale of 300 Spartan warriors battle against a army of 20,000 Persians, it will be based off of Franks Millers comic book titled 300.

Hehe Yeah,but iam not a history nut I just know alot about my peoples past,"know about the past to understand your future" as they say.And yeah I love the persian's(Prince Of Persia 3:rolleyes2 ) and the greeks are okay as well but alot of that battle was clouded.The real victory should go to the Greek Fleet wich amazingly ended up beating the persian fleet causing the persians to Flee.

[Jebus]

Yeah, Salamis was the decisive battle, but you have to admit, 300 men (Ok, yeah, they were Spartans, which does give them an edge) against 20,000 Persians, and they were holding them back. That's amazing.

Well, untill the Persians were able to bribe a herdsman to lead them around the mountains and slaughter them. Still, that was pretty amazing.

[Ancient Seductress]

Yeah That was Amazing, its one of my favorite battles.But!The Greeks where between two heavly large mountains wich gave them a HUGE advantage.Know it doesent matter if the persian had 1,000,000 men with a defensive potion that allows only 100 or so of the enmies men through you could win any battle.

However onther battle that was truly Epic and Great was the one where only 3,000 Muslims defeat a army of 200,000 Perisans:kaofight:!
Know thats a Epic battle!Not only that, unlike the greeks the muslims had no defensive postion(they where fighting on desert) and the persians numbered 200,000,not only that, the persians had Elephants,chariots,Heavy calvary and the muslims for the most part came out unskaved from the battle and WON, Know thats AMAZING.If there going to do the spartan movie they had better do this one to as it was an even more better battle

[Jebus]

Ooo. I hadn't heard of that one. I've only studied ancient western history, so I don't know much of Muslim history. I should look that one up.

[SoulTaker*]

Yeah, Salamis was the decisive battle, but you have to admit, 300 men (Ok, yeah, they were Spartans, which does give them an edge) against 20,000 Persians, and they were holding them back. That's amazing.

Well, untill the Persians were able to bribe a herdsman to lead them around the mountains and slaughter them. Still, that was pretty amazing.

They fought to the last man, dont forget the 10,000 Persian "immortals" that the Spartans were up against, named because whenever a man fell he was replaced immediately so they seemed immortal, and even after the Persians found the mountain pass they were still getting whooped, so bad that they ran away and just shot arrows at the Spartans until they were dead. This battle was a victory for the Persians but it became somewhat a rallying cry for the Athenian and Spartan army, much like the Alamo was for Texas. If Persia takes control over Greece its over for Western Civilization.

[Ancient Seductress]

Heres a more detailed version 4,000 Muslims VS 100,000 Persian XD

Muthanna returned from Madina to Hira in September 634 A D.

The Persians commissioned two forces to fight against the Muslims. One was placed under the command of Narsi and it was stationed at Kaskar. The other army under the command of Jaban was required to march to Hira. Heralds were sent to various parts of Iraq to foment an insurrection against the Muslims by appealing to their sense of religious honor.

Seeing the Persians to be in an offensive mood, Muthanna decided to remain on the defensive. All Muslim outposts in Suwad were pulled back and all Muslim garrisons were withdrawn to the west of the Euphrates. As Jaban marched through Suwad he met no resistance from the Muslims. As Jaban approached Hira, Muthanna evacuated Hira and moved to Khaftan closer to the desert. The strategy was to tempt the Persians come as near the desert as possible.

Abu Ubaid set off from Madina in September 634 with a force of one thousand fighting men. In the way he recruited more fighting men from the tribes, and when he reached Khaftan early in October he had a force of 4,000 fighting men with him. Knowing that Allah will win the battle for them.

Jaban crossed the Euphrates and camped at Namaraq near the site of modern day Kufa. Abu Ubaid moved with the Muslim forces from Khaftan, and came to Namaraq. At Namaraq the two armies were deployed for battle. The Persians led the attack, but the Muslim ranks held fast.The Persian then Deployed massive Elephants and charged them into the muslim ranks,the muslims having never came across these creatures STILL held there ground (Moral for the ancient islamic armies was the greatest in history),Suddenly a cry came across the muslim army "Strike the Elephants at there trunks" the call came just in time and so the muslims did just that,So ended the lives of 40 persian Elephants.With this the Muslims led the charge, and the Persians had to fall back. The Muslims redoubled the charge, and the Persians retreated in confusion. The battle ended in the defeat of the Persians, who lost heavily. Jaban himself was captured by a Muslim soldier. Jaban did not reveal his identity and he bargained with his captor that if he was released he would offer two Persians in his place. The unsophisticated Muslim warrior agreed to the bargain, and Jaban was set free.

Later it was found that Jaban was the commander of the Persian forces and that he had escaped due to a stratagem. The matter was reported to Abu Ubaid. Abu Ubaid felt satisfied that a Muslim soldier had in fact given the promise to Jaban, and the Muslims could not go back on that promise.

[Jaffar]

My Friends,My Dear Cousin Is Of Great Wisdom And You Would Do Well To Hear The World Through Her Words For Then We Can All Become Of Greater Insight

Yes Indeed My Great City Of Carthage Held The Most Famous Warrior Of All For Hannibal Barca Is One Of Great Spirit And Only Through Roman Cowardice Did He Fall,A Lasting Scar On My People

[Ancient Seductress]

hehe I love you so much jaffar your the best

but jaffar carthage surly isent just our city,the only true home for our people is the atlas mountains and our hearts for its where we found the most comfort then any other land.

heres some info about early phoenicians wich should give you an idea of what carthage was like,seeing as all of its records where distroyed we know nothing of the city outside the remaining berber tribes.


recorded history shows a group of coastal cities and heavily forested mountains inhabited by a Semitic people, the Canaanites, around 4000 BC. These early inhabitants referred to themselves according to their city of origin, and called their nation Canaan. They lived in the narrow East-Mediterranean coast and the parallel strip mountains of Lebanon. Around 2800 BC Canaanites traded cedar timber, olive oil and wine from Byblos for metals and ivory from Egypt.
The Canaanites who inhabited that area were called Phoenicians by the Greeks (from the Greek word phoinos, meaning ‘red’) in a reference to the unique purple dye the Phoenicians produced from murex seashells. The Phoenicians mastered the art of navigation and dominated the Mediterranean Sea trade for around 500 years. They excelled in producing textiles, carving ivory, working with metal and glass. The Phoenicians built several local cities East Mediterranean among which: Byblos, Tyre, Sidon, Berytus (Beirut), Tripoli, Arvad Island-City, Baalbek and Caesarea. The Phoenicians needed an easily used system for record keeping so they disposed of the cumbersome cuniform and came up with a new 22 letter alphabet after some Roman And Greek revisions it became the modern alphabet used today.