Do's and Don't's with sub jobs

[chronic_Maniac]

I know there maybe threads like this but its offical here. What are the do's and dont's on mixing class with class. I just want me and other people to really know what or what not to do when you get sub jobs. Like monk/red mage is sometimes a don't as though warrior/ninja is a do, I think. Anyways what have you found that goes together and things that don't.

[Yeargdribble]

/DRG ftw!

No... really... not a good idea.

Generally mage/melee is a bad combo for XP. There are situations, mostly solo, where this is okay. Melee/mage isn't a good idea either in most cases unless, once again, you are soloing. There are jobs that by their nature offer almost nothing when subbed.

/DRG (no wyvern... no good)
/BRD (only one very weak song... no thanks) I see this too often.

There are others but you get the idea. PLD subbing anything but WAR is pretty much a no-no except in endgame situations where a PLD/NIN can hold hate against HNMs with the help of a SAM/THF.

There are some workable combos that most people will frown up though. BLM/NIN and NIN/BLM come to mind. There are bigger downsides to NIN/BLM than to BLM/NIN though. Mostly a NIN/BLM will run out of MP and have to rest which slows down the PT if you don't have a refresher or a BLM/NIN with a ton of medicines. It is a very damaging way to go but very expensive and very misunderstood.

BLM/NIN has some benefits. You can do massive damage to the mob without incuring quite as much of his wrath. Some PTs like to have you /WHM to heal but in others you may find yourself (as I often do) sitting on 400+MP all the time because there simply is nothing to do with all of that MP. BLM/NIN also would be very costly but if played correctly could be quite nice as you could dual wield INT clubs for quite a boost (not to mention NIN has the most INT offered by a sub). You lose some MP but max MP is not an important thing as a mage as much as hMP is. If you are recovering that MP constantly your max MP means very little.

[chronic_Maniac]

Yeah thats good you complelty covered the melee/mage, mage/melee stuff right away. why have a mage with a warrior sub? The answer is mages are used for casting spells not attacking. As for melee with a mage sub job? I haven't really frowned upon the subject as much. In fact I am really hoping people can come up with okays with this.

[Markus. D]

not all Warrior Subs are bad later in game.

Thief/Warrior.

[Lionx]

I have played with many BLMs, the best BLM however is those that take over Silena when i am casting Regen or Hasting others, and those are with a BLM sub, the RDM sub this guy had yesterday was..ok but with cocks and when i steal hate and get silence(and leave my echo drops at home...but dont count on most to have them), theres nothing anyone can do(RDM subbed BLM). Personally, there are BLMs that can always find a use for their WHM sub, and i like them the best as they always try to maximize their potential, those that just sit there with 500 MP usually are disappointing when i have less than 100 MP. Because of most BLMs like that, i dont expect them to backup heal at all or help me out even when i have little, and they have a huge chunk left except a few i played with and will remember to invite again.

There are some workable combos that most people will frown up though. BLM/NIN and NIN/BLM come to mind. There are bigger downsides to NIN/BLM than to BLM/NIN though. Mostly a NIN/BLM will run out of MP and have to rest which slows down the PT if you don't have a refresher or a BLM/NIN with a ton of medicines. It is a very damaging way to go but very expensive and very misunderstood.

WTH, you dont use your Black Magic, you make sure you have Capped Ninjutsu and spin the elemental wheel with Elemental Staves. People parsed their numbers and found out that its quite possible to do good damage without spamming shurikens(its not in the same league, but its good enough).

/BRD post 50 on WHM or RDM is not completely unmerited. You still get an Accuracy +(i forget how much, at least 10..if not 5..which is a Sniper Ring's worth) with Madrigal, and Ballad is unaffected by singing skill hence making it worthwhile since its not only your MP you are refreshing, but the PLD/DRK/RDM/BLM/SMN/whatever magic guy you have here so its a multiplied effect which outweights /SMN outside certain end-game areas. Of course this is useless if theres a real BRD, but real BRDs are hard to come by and one of the coolest RDMs i had was subbing BRD and keeping everything up fine. Oh and if you have a RNG, Prelude wouldnt be that bad either.

/DRG...only time i remember was this RDM/DRG who used it for the equips(Latent: Sj DRG) which provided Haste and helped him beat Mission 5-1 with 5 seconds on the clock left. /DRG is also very good in Ballista, THF/DRG dominate the lower lvl brackets especially if someone wants to flee, just Sneak Attack => Jump and they take instant 100-150 damage, then chase them down. Pre 30, DRG sub can provide an Attack boost which is not that bad, however afterwards its pretty crap outside ballista. Jump also has a chance of having an "instant interruption" against Utsusemi players.

WAR/NIN outside of duo blink tanking, sucks pre-50 due to no real Haste output, and lowered TP gain(tested this with friend, you gain less TP than if you were to single hand it, however he knows it alot better, math cruncher), and hence why dual wield is mostly for off-hand bonuses which doesnt happen til lvl 48 Viking Axes and 50 for an Haste Upgrade. Pre-50, in general, this combination sucks unless you are with another WAR/NIN duo tanking. WAR/MNK and /THF outperform /NIN in exp pt. Promyvion however, they are alot better since they can negate damage better, however you require another tank with the same config as well.

Try DRG/WHM post 60 with AF helm, you can activate your breath at 50% life(or around there) and with Dia 7 MP, you can easily gain a CureIII worth of life back making solo reletively easy upon you. During certain HNM, DRG/WHM is very usefull too, however most dont take advantage of this.

Theres alot more but if we are to go over every sub its going to take a while.

[chronic_Maniac]

Yeah it would take a long time to explain them all. How about this? The first topic still remains but for now what about your favorite to see? I enjoy seeing any whm/blm or blm/whm cause they balance each other out so much. mnk/war is nice too cause it shows the monk is willing to knock off some HP. I know this one monk though who had warrior as sub but never used provoke when we got a link or bad aggro. That type of attitude is something I really hate. I can kinda understand 'cause he said he died 5 times that day but we all were almost dead and he had full life. Oh well.

[Lionx]

WAR sub for melee is mostly for Berserk, Warcry, and Double Attack, not Provoking.

[chronic_Maniac]

so you'd leave that for ninja? I don't know I always liked war as tank.

[Rostum]

PLD and NIN are the tanks later on. WAR's don't like to tank at all, they'd rather DD (don't blame them too much), but PLD and NIN sub WAR for the provoke ability (although I hear some NIN's like to sub BLM to do damage).

[Lionx]

There are currently 3 accepted tanking jobs in this game(i believe there are 5 however, but currently community thought process elminates it i feel). WAR, PLD, NIN.

For PLD and NIN, they need to sub WAR to have Provoke which is undeniably the best and fastest hate gaining option there is in the game for that quick snap in hate. WAR themselves CAN tank throughout their lives, however the current trend is that WAR are DDs and cant tank, even though they can equip the heaviest armors. Its not that the WAR cannot tank, its that no one preffers to tank these days as a WAR for no real good reason.

The other two jobs i believe that are able to become tanks with the right gear/setup/mobs are MNK and SAM. However it was two years ago since i had a MNK tank (who did extremely well btw, only difference between WAR and MNK is armor and weapon selection for their tanking options ie: WAR/MNK(tank sub) and MNK/WAR), and most SAMs preffer not to tank as well even though i firmly believe if someone tried they will be able to do so.

[Garland]

I had a Samurai tank as my Whm in Qufim, and it wasn't bad at all. In fact, player skill (of everyone but me, because I was a first job newb) made the party one of the better low level parties I've ever had. In Crawler's Nest as my Blm, I had a Galka Monk tank. Once again, the party went swimmingly. You're right that these two jobs should be viable tanks. Samurai have the best parry skill in the game, and third eye. Their AF has enmity + and bonuses to things when recieving enemy attacks. It screams tank. Counter has to be the best defensive skill in the game. Why evade, block or parry when you can get the same damage negation and deal some of your own?

Why are these jobs not tanks? You're right - it's community stupidity. You might take a chemistry class and see whatever hundred elements there are on a periodic table. A FFXI vet sees only Oxygen because it's the most useful. Five food groups? The FFXI player sees only cereals and grains. No other collection of people on the internet is as artificially limiting as this. Min-Maxing gone entirely wrong. The 8-Bit Comics Rdm on crack. Still, I'm as addicted as ever. FFXI for life.

[frotunda]

My friend was over the other day, and I showed him http://www.exploitsrus.com/ffxi_f.html It is a site with cheats, bugs, dupes, etc for final fantasy xi. He told me it was against the rules for ffxi to do this. Is this true? I am used to cheating on video games for my whole life, so I was sort of shocked to hear this.

[chronic_Maniac]

Umm man, no offence but you've posted this everywhere on the web. I go to sites to see whats going on and there it is. A BIG FAT cheater. HOw you've done this IDK you may be over surprised at what you've found but it would then be a little obsessive. I think its a few people doing this. Please quit. but umm sure yeah its against the rules lol, really IDK

Now lets just forget what frotunda said and continue with the subject. Summoner is the worst thing I have ever seen as a sub job. Here's why, sub jobs are half of what your main job is. When you sub with smn and go to level up, your summon powers are simply never going to be at its full. lets say I wanted rdm/smn and was at the dunes. if I was rdm10/smn5 and casted a summon it wouldn't even hit the targets. cause the lowest you can be is level 10 to fight in the dunes now and days and level 5 is way out of the question. another is totally debatable and that is bsm (beast master) due to your charming abillity. You can't just go and charm a hard monster and get away with it so it you were subbing bsm you will have a very hard time charming a monster. rdm to me is one of the hardest to have a sub job for but the best that I have found is either whm or blm. with your rdm you can use a lot of white and black magic already. Makes you wanna just go ahead and level up a whm/blm or blm/whm instead of a rdm/whm or rdm/blm.

As far as the tanks go I have not wittnessed a sam tank but I soon will. mnks are way over looked and ninja seems to win the golden throne as well as pld cause of invisible. either way pld and drk are not very good to sub with eack other I don't think. I may be corrected.

[Nakor TheBlue Rider]

nobody should ever sub /Pld

and the only ppl that would sub /Drk is High Lvl Rdm's for Stun

[Lionx]

/BST can charm things like kraken as lvl 1, it just wont last as long is all.

Some /SMN over 50 for auto refresh and aerial armor.