1572,the year of FF8.

[Skyblade]

No, FE, Chocoboy is not a shumi at all. HE IS HYNE HIMSELF! HE'S CONTROLLING ODINE! BYW, speaking of using forensic evidence, your 'shumi' postulate violates that idea. You take one piece of dialogue construe it into a no limits fallacy for which we have absolutely zilcho evidence.

And no, Edea's headdress is in no way, shape, or form, a Propagator head. It is also not part of her body.

Don't change the subject. We're not moving on to his next insane theory until he's admitted that he's wrong about this one. I'm sick of him getting off the hook this way.

[Ryushikaze]

Which was why I brought it back to Edea's headdress. I want the boy to cop to his error too.

[Leeza]

*sigh* I'm getting sick of this, but it's funny, so I'll be here to see what else FE gets in his dreams and take a good laugh

Have your laugh without making any more posts of this nature. As I said just as few posts up from here:

As has been stated previously in this thread by more than one Mod, if you are going to post only to complain about FE and his theories, then don't bother posting. No one is twisting your arm to come into this thread.

...do not come in here for the sole purpose of posting what you just did. It's not on topic, it's spam, it's borderline flaming and just plain not nice. I don't want to see any more of that sort of posting from anyone in here.

[Ramza Beoulve]

Upss, sorry, my fault

In any case, I still want to know how Future Esthar will prove us how 1572 it's FFVIII year, how Zell can be in Squall in a robot scan and how the theory of the Propagator can be true, also I'm with Skyblade, first finish your first theory before take us to another one, FE, and for the plot of Edea being a Propagator, is'nt a Propagator head, it does'nt have eyes, and that visor-like thing is empty, like a "Gatchaman" helmet or something like that

[Future Esthar]

I think I already showed the eyes to you.

1-No,sir,the Propagator´s head´s are clearly transparent.
2-It is clearly a Propagator´s head.It didn´t matter the curveness(look to my final comment on this post).
3-There is no evidence for it being a cloth.
4-Edea is grey here like in the Ragnarok(I am not even talking about her clothes but about her body part of which can be seen).
5-Edea´s hands resembles that of a Propagator.

Did it even occurred to you that Edea is undergoing a Propagator-human transformation?

I never said Edea was in her full Propagator form.

In any case, I still want to know how Future Esthar will prove us how 1572 it's FFVIII year

I pretty much did this at the beggining.

I already gave three proofs for three different theories.

It just happens they were all subjective so if you don´t wanna to accept them it is up to you.
I already made my job.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

1-No,sir,the Propagator´s head´s are clearly transparent.
2-It is clearly a Propagator´s head.It didn´t matter the curveness(look to my final comment on this post).
3-There is no evidence for it being a cloth.
4-Edea is grey here like in the Ragnarok(I am not even talking about her clothes but about her body part of which can be seen).
5-Edea´s hands resembles that of a Propagator.

Did it even occurred to you that Edea is undergoing a Propagator-human transformation?

1- No sir, the propogator head's are clearly not transparent. do you see their brain or the core of them that they use to function? i think not.
2- propogator heads do not curve to make a sharp point. their point at the end is rounded.
3- it is a visor. she used her magic to make it come out of the headress and then used her magic to put it back in.
4- it's called make-up buddy.
5- ever heard of long nails? and i don't recall propogator hands being so small and and the nails being so sharply pointed.

Did it ever occur to you that she has been married to Cid for quite sometime before this and that he would've found out by then and would've said something about that in the game? and the "humans were once propogators" thing is another one of your theories that has yet to be proven.

[Ramza Beoulve]

Did it ever occur to you that she has been married to Cid for quite sometime before this and that he would've found out by then and would've said something about that in the game? and the "humans were once propogators" thing is another one of your theories that has yet to be proven.

I agree

[Ryushikaze]

I think I already showed the eyes to you.

No. You showed us a screenshot in which you claimed there were eyes. The screenshot shows differently

1-No,sir,the Propagator´s head´s are clearly transparent.

Incorrect. they're decidedly opaque.

2-It is clearly a Propagator´s head.It didn´t matter the curveness(look to my final comment on this post).

It is clearly not. Not only that, but that you have to dismiss factors weakens your position further.

3-There is no evidence for it being a cloth.

There is EVERY evidence for it being clothing. At NO point does it actually touch her skin. It only touches the other parts of her headdress.

4-Edea is grey here like in the Ragnarok(I am not even talking about her clothes but about her body part of which can be seen).

PSSSSST! Most of her visible skin is IN SHADOW. When devoid of light, most things appear grey. However, some of her skin IS in direct light. This skin is normal fleshtone.

5-Edea´s hands resembles that of a Propagator.

No. Edea's hands were sharp and tapering. Propagator hands are blunt and do not taper. Besides, they're shorter, and joint in the wrong places.

Did it even occurred to you that Edea is undergoing a Propagator-human transformation?

I never said Edea was in her full Propagator form.

Nevermind that she neither begins nor ends the FMV in any form resembling a propagator. Or the fact that she for some inexplicable reason has more hair as a 'propagator', hair being something they don't have.

I pretty much did this at the beggining.

I already gave three proofs for three different theories.

No... You say you did, but you've actually failed to do so.

It just happens they were all subjective so if you don´t wanna to accept them it is up to you.
I already made my job.

Oh, so you admit that these little flights of fancy are subjective, IE- not objective. I believe we have a tacit concession, folks.

[Future Esthar]

1-Propagator´s heads were transparent.Theyr eyes are INSIDE their head.
2-

(look to my final comment on this post).

Did it even occurred to you that Edea is undergoing a Propagator-human transformation?

I never said Edea was in her full Propagator form.

I know this was not the final comment but this is what I was referring to.

:rolleyes2

3-I saw the video again.We can´t see it touching her skin nor we can´t see it touching her clothes.It is impossible to tell.

4-A makeup?That is an a-priori unfounded postulation.

5-

Did it even occurred to you that Edea is undergoing a Propagator-human transformation?

I never said Edea was in her full Propagator form.

.
:rolleyes2

By the way,what is the meaning of the words "tamper" and Blunt?

id it ever occur to you that she has been married to Cid for quite sometime before this and that he would've found out by then and would've said something about that in the game? and the "humans were once propogators" thing is another one of your theories that has yet to be proven

Do you even thought were the word Seed came from?
That´s simple.
Propagator´s heads resemble some kind of seed(wheat seeds,I think).
Anyway you can´t prove that Cid is not a shumi possessed by Doc Odine(while I have lots of evidence for it).
There is no problem in backing theories with theories as long as fhe final ones are backed up by evidence.

Nevermind that she neither begins nor ends the FMV in any form resembling a propagator. Or the fact that she for some inexplicable reason has more hair as a 'propagator', hair being something they don't have.

Ever heard of transitional forms?

1-Edea transforms mouth and foot first(what we don´t see).
2-Edea transforms hair(don´t see also).
3-Transforms hands a little(don´t see).
3-Transforms head making hair short(what we see).

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

FE, you cannot use theories as proof if they have not been declared true or infalsifiable. You have no evidence of Cid being possessed, Edea does use make-up to make her skin less bright(the make-up they use on actors and actresses so their skin doesn't glare up on the screen), the propogator heads are not transparent(if one part of their body is transparent than the rest of it is, which it's not and our eyes are inside of our head as well FE), no that is not subjective since you can prove this through the game by looking at the tip of their head in the front(most ppl would call it rounded in the real world), we do see the red visor protruding from her headdress and then see it go shrink back in(it does not touch her skin becuase it is not a part of her, but we can see it go back into her head piece),already answered your #4, don't you roll your eyes at me when I have already made a counter point to that.

the word blunt means not sharp; dull.
their head do resemble seeds but that is irrelevant. why would propogators even say that their heads look like seeds? and why would they use that for a reason of the making of the name for the SeeD. also, they are not called seed, they are called See-D(the name of the letter D for the last part of the pronunciation).

You also have no proof of her transforming. In the game we see Edea(or matron) in a full human form before this even happens(the orphanage flashbacks), and don't start telling me that was a disguise. Besides, you say we only see one of the transitions for the transformation. We have counter-argued that and you can't say ashe transforms if you only see one phase. that would be ridiculous.

[Ryushikaze]

1-Propagator´s heads were transparent.Theyr eyes are INSIDE their head.

Heero already addressed this one.

2-I know this was not the final comment but this is what I was referring to.

:rolleyes2

Which you have yet to prove.

3-I saw the video again.We can´t see it touching her skin nor we can´t see it touching her clothes.It is impossible to tell.

No. It's rather easy to tell, we do see it touching her clothing, and the curvature and hollow interior means that it does not touch her skin, nor does it contain anything.

4-A makeup?That is an a-priori unfounded postulation.

The fact that YOU are saying this just makes me want to hurt something. Firstly because THAT'S WHAT MOST OF YOUR STUFF IS, and secondly, because it's not. Do you even look up the meaning of the words you use?
In any case, her skin appears grey because of the reduced light values. It is fleshtone where light strikes it.

5-.
:rolleyes2

Did it ever occur to you that Squall is a Moomba?

By the way,what is the meaning of the words "tamper" and Blunt?

TAPER. And it means to grow thinner along a length. Blunt means not sharp.

Do you even thought were the word Seed came from?
That´s simple.
Propagator´s heads resemble some kind of seed(wheat seeds,I think).

NOOOOO... The word comes from a temporal paradox when Squall told Edea what SeeDs were, and then she and Cid started SeeD, raising Squall as one, etc.

Anyway you can´t prove that Cid is not a shumi possessed by Doc Odine(while I have lots of evidence for it).

Firstly, we NEVER need to prove a negative assertion. It wins by default unless the positive assertion can front the enough evidence. Secondly, no you don't have lots of evidence for it. You have EXACTLY ONE LINE of evidence, which you ignore the meaning of and rewrite into a no limits transformation ability for the shumi.

There is no problem in backing theories with theories as long as fhe final ones are backed up by evidence.

Incorrect. While you can base a theory on an ACCEPTED theory, this new theory must ALSO have evidence to support its position. You're attempting to support a theory with completely inevidenced, horrifically tenuous postulates.

Ever heard of transitional forms?

1-Edea transforms mouth and foot first(what we don´t see).
2-Edea transforms hair(don´t see also).
3-Transforms hands a little(don´t see).
3-Transforms head making hair short(what we see).

Basically, your theory rests on the idea that Edea was transforming, when the FMV does not show anything of the sort (the visor, as mentioned, is NOT part of her body), when she was human before and after the scene, and that she decided to grow and then retract several feet of hair for no good reason. Oh, and that she was a Propagator before this transformation when we actually see her as a human before the scene, making any transformation totally redundant.

[Omnislash07]

Ever heard of transitional forms?

1-Edea transforms mouth and foot first(what we don´t see).
2-Edea transforms hair(don´t see also).
3-Transforms hands a little(don´t see).
3-Transforms head making hair short(what we see).

You have no proof of these other forms, throught the game Edea is shown as a human and all of your proof is being drawn off of one short FMV which only shows her headdress being retracted so that the people can see her face. There is nowhere you could possibly get the idea for the other transformation forms other than just making them up.

[Future Esthar]

[QUOTE1]-Propagator´s heads were transparent.Theyr eyes are INSIDE their head.
][/QUOTE]

By inside,I mean deep inside,not at the surface.Since we can see them we conclude it is transparent.

No. It's rather easy to tell, we do see it touching her clothing, and the curvature and hollow interior means that it does not touch her skin, nor does it contain anything.

You call that spiral thing a cloth?
Can´t it be part of Edea´s body as well as the horns?

Firstly, we NEVER need to prove a negative assertion. It wins by default unless the positive assertion can front the enough evidence. Secondly, no you don't have lots of evidence for it. You have EXACTLY ONE LINE of evidence, which you ignore the meaning of and rewrite into a no limits transformation ability for the shumi.

That was not the evidence I was referring about.
But don´t worry,I will not change subject without give my best evidence to this one.

Incorrect. While you can base a theory on an ACCEPTED theory, this new theory must ALSO have evidence to support its position.

That´s what I said.

You have no proof of these other forms, throught the game Edea is shown as a human and all of your proof is being drawn off of one short FMV which only shows her headdress being retracted so that the people can see her face. There is nowhere you could possibly get the idea for the other transformation forms other than just making them up.

I don´t wanna to proof anything with this.
I am just posting possible alternatives which explain why the heads and hands are SIMILAR although not equal.
It thus refute the concept that if they are not tottaly equal they are not the same thing.

the game we see Edea(or matron) in a full human form before this even happens(the orphanage flashbacks)

It´s not like if she is transforming for the first time.She can perform transformations many times.

Guys,the fact that Edea´s head and hand were SIMILAR to that of a Propagator don´t tell you much already?

That´s the best evidence I can give for the characters being Propagators.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

FE, how about you argue against more than one thing is my response. The fingers are long due to Ulti possessing her, that is all and that is the reason. Also, if she was a prop then she could only transform once since you say that humans were from propogators. Who said their eyes were deep inside of them, where is your proof? In every screenshot there is no good image that is close enough to show how deep the eyes are embedded. Also, I have more on thye transparency thing on my post before. READ IT!

[Ryushikaze]

By inside,I mean deep inside,not at the surface.Since we can see them we conclude it is transparent.

Burden of proof to show that they are deep inside. They do not appear so.

You call that spiral thing a cloth?
Can´t it be part of Edea´s body as well as the horns?

No, I call it clothing. And yes, there is a bizarre off chance that Edea has had it grafted onto her body or grown via magical corruption, but such an assumption flies in the face of the far more parsimonious view that it is attached to her skullcap, not her skull.

That was not the evidence I was referring about.
But don´t worry,I will not change subject without give my best evidence to this one.

I look forward to this evidence when we make it that far, then.

That´s what I said.

Not quite, but I'll let the slipup slide since you've mentioned previously that this is not your first language.

I don´t wanna to proof anything with this.
I am just posting possible alternatives which explain why the heads and hands are SIMILAR although not equal.

They're not all that similar, though. To be honest, Edea in a headdress looks more like a Red Chocobo than a propagator.

It thus refute the concept that if they are not tottaly equal they are not the same thing.

Hasty generalization fallacy, and even then that would only be if you could prove all this to be true.

It´s not like if she is transforming for the first time.She can perform transformations many times.

But why? No, seriousy, what does it benefit her to waste energy in transformation?

Guys,the fact that Edea´s head and hand were SIMILAR to that of a Propagator don´t tell you much already?

The only similarity is length. All other aspects, including proportion (the joints are far, far too soon along the total finger) are entirely incorrect, and the length can easily be explained by having needlessly long nails.

That´s the best evidence I can give for the characters being Propagators.

And it's not enough to prove it, however.
Meanwhile, I do have something to say- If the characters are the Propagators, then why do the propagators attack 'themselves' and why don't the other characters die via paradox by killing themselves?