I don't understand Tidus being a dream?

[Link_5]

Ok I just beat Seymour Flux at gagazet.

I came to this glowing wall (which was fayth) that was being used by something somewhere to summon. well i have questions......



1. Tidus collapses and the little purple fayth kid says zanarkand was only a dream....So does that mean zanarkand never existed??

2 .and if zanarkand was destroyed by bevelle how did sin destroy it in the beginning??

3. why were jecht and tidus chosen to come to spira??

please someone give me answers to these 3 questions lol...however, if it's something that i'll find out later in the game by playing, dont ruin it for me.. i just wanna know what i might have not understood

[Lost Number]

First, Zanarkand did exist. You will soon find that out. The "dream" exists only inside the fayths mind. It continues Zanarkand, so it is not forgotten. Thats all I can reliably say.

[Link_5]

ok but when the REAL zanarkand existed (not the dream one) tidus wasnt there was he? he only existed in the dream zanarkand that sin dosed right??

REAL zanarkand was destroyed by bevelle but the DREAM zanarkand was destroyed by sin?

[Lost Number]

The dream Zanarkand still exists when Tidus is outside...it sorta resets.
Also(SPOILER)Some theorise what Tidus is a dream Shuyin, from X-2

[Tavrobel]

Ok I just beat Seymour Flux at gagazet.

I came to this glowing wall (which was fayth) that was being used by something somewhere to summon. well i have questions......
1. Tidus collapses and the little purple fayth kid says zanarkand was only a dream....So does that mean zanarkand never existed??
2 .and if zanarkand was destroyed by bevelle how did sin destroy it in the beginning??
3. why were jecht and tidus chosen to come to spira??
please someone give me answers to these 3 questions I cried aloud with mirth and merriment...however, if it's something that i'll find out later in the game by playing, dont ruin it for me.. i just wanna know what i might have not understood

You will find out later (in pieces). It's however, up to you to put the pieces together.
Long story short...

(SPOILER)That purple fayth you mention is the fayth of Bahamut. Zanarkand did exist 1000 years ago. There was a war between Bevelle, which used Machina, and Zanarkand, which used Summoners; imagine the Blitz versus... everyone except the States and England. Yeah.

At the end of the war, Yu Yevon called all the Summoners who were still alive, and made them all fayths, so they could preserve their vision of Zanarkand. They also summoned Sin, who destroyed the city (most likely, inadvertently, but it benefited the Dreaming fayth to prevent Bevelle from finding them), and decimated the armies of Bevelle. They fled, and while on the slopes of Mt. Gagazet, they heard singing, which explains the Hymn of the Fayth. Zanarkand is preserved, as a memory, and is now called Dream Zanarkand. The ruins is the REAL Zanarkand, not Dream Zanarkand, where Tidus is from.
Afterwards, Yevon's daughter, Yunalesca was approached by the people of Spira to stop Sin. She did, and she sacrificed her husband to do it. However, Yevon possessed Zaon after Sin fell, and Zaon became the next Sin. She would most likely have known that Yevon could revive Sin, and if not, then she learned it after being dead.

During this time, Vegnagun was also developed to fight Sin, but never used (FFX-2).

Jecht was taken accidentally, as he went out one day, and he wandered too far, and Sin found him. Tidus was taken from DZ through conspiracy of Jecht (now Sin) and Auron, who was now dead, and could pass over from either world freely.

ok but when the REAL zanarkand existed (not the dream one) tidus wasnt there was he? he only existed in the dream zanarkand that sin dosed right??
REAL zanarkand was destroyed by bevelle but the DREAM zanarkand was destroyed by sin?

No, Tidus was not there. Shuyin (whom Tidus' template is based on) was there. (FFX-2)
Real Zanarkand is destroyed by both Sin and Bevelle, but not working together, mind you. The religion of Yevon was formed as a way to appease Yu Yevon by the people of Bevelle, and they hid the truth from the masses. Dream Zanarkand cannot be destroyed, except by destroying the fayth, which would never occur, because the only people allowed at that point are Summoners and Guardians. Summoners/Guardians would never, with intent, harm a fayth. The ones in their possession would get awfully pissed. Just wait until the end of the game, and talk to Machaen on Mt. Gagazet, and it should make more sense.

[Little Blue]

I would like to add/contradict

(SPOILER)Dream Zanarkand is very real. Sin is not Summoned, but dream Zanarkand is summoned by Yu Yevon. Sin is nothing more than pyreflies and gravity built, and understatement sure, but that is all Sin is. Dream Zanarkand, like any other Aeon has a physical location in Spira.

Bevelle never even got near Zanarkand before they encountered Sin. They had just defeat the last of Zanarkands army on the Calm Lands and had begun marchng up gagazet. When they reachedthe peak, they discovered the Fayth, and then Sin. It wasn't for many monhs afterwards that bevelle braved the mountain to find Zanarkands fate, destroyed entirely by Sin.

Dream Zanarkand can easily be destroyed, like any aeon, and restored just as easily.

Vegnagun was never developed to fight Sin. It was built during the machina war to fight Zanarkand, but was never used.

[Jecht Shot]

Yep.

(SPOILER)As Auron's Ghost said, both Tidus and his Zanarkand are essentially Aeons. According to the FFX Ultimania, the summoned Zanarkand literally exists somewhere in Spira. Just nobody really knows where. It could be way out at sea somewhere, or it could be high up in the sky. Some people guessed it was in the sky because the pillar created by Yu Yevon's summoning phenomenon seemed to be going up into the sky. Anyway, because of the lack of technology (or rather the ban on it), nobody could really discover it. That, and one of Sin's purposes was to keep technology from advancing, hence him attacking machina cities and cities with large populations. As for the whole "just a dream" thing, it is confusion created by an unsure Tidus and a mistranslation from the original Japanese script.

[Masamune·1600]

You're both close. Specifically, FFX and X-2 Spoilersthe physical being of Sin is manifested from pyreflies held together by Gravity Magic, but its still focuses on a "heart;" a physical anchor for the material substance of Sin. This anchor was originally Yu Yevon himself; after the first Final Summoning, Yunalesca's Final Aeon was used as this anchor. Each subsequent successful Final Summoning pierced Sin, resulting in the possession of the new Final Aeon by Yu Yevon. Possessed, the Aeon would turn on its Summoner, kill him or her, and then be used as the anchoring point for a new Sin.

Sin did not destroy the original Zanarkand inadvertently. It did so because Sin is inherently destructive; note that, upon reaching Dream Zanarkand at the beginning of the game, it even attacks that which was the reason for its coming into being.

Sin is not Summoned; it is an armor for the Summoner of Dream Zanarkand. The Dream itself is what is being Summoned.

Tidus was not taken through any sort of conspiracy. It was merely the sum result of previous chance events that had deviated from the "system" that Yu Yevon had effectively established. Sin was never meant to contact Dream Zanarkand or its residents; this threatened both the isolation of the city, as well as Yu Yevon's "overcontrol." When Jecht encountered Sin at sea, this removed him from Yu Yevon's effective sphere of control, and landed him in Spira. From there, he ultimately became Sin. Jecht's desire to merely see Tidus was why Sin traveled to Dream Zanarkand, not in order to take Tidus to Spira. This, however, is what conspired, allowing for the events that took place in the game.

Maechen does not state that the Fayth and Sin were encountered concurrently, and original Zanarkand later. Rather, Sin was all that Bevelle encountered at Gagazet; the source of the "song from an otherworld," the Fayth, was discovered by the same scouts who first saw the ruins of Zanarkand.

Tidus is not the "Dream version" of Shuyin. Assuming Dream Zanarkand was originally modelled after Zanarkand (minus elements like Summoning), a Dream Shuyin would have lived and died centuries before Tidus was born. DZ, after all, moves in real time, just as the rest of Spira does, and sees its denizens live their lives and eventually die. Given that Tidus bears the techniques of Shuyin, as well as a very similar appearance, one must assume that (via whatever means) Dream Shuyin was used as a physical template for Tidus, who housed a unique soul.

[Tavrobel]

Meh. It's more or less interpretive differences between all our theories (except for some of them). At least I could start somewhere for others to completely punish for saying anything wrong and saying something right.

If you can understand Japanese, the Ultimania guide should help for the deeper intricacies.

And for Vegnagun, it WAS developed to fight Sin, but never used because it could not differentiate between friend and nemesis; which is clearly stated in FFX-2, and I would not consider it a spoiler at all. (HAHAHAHA GET IT NEMESIS MUAHAHAH). Also, I can't Spoiler something with the eidt button, and I'm not typing out (SPOILER)XD

[Little Blue]

Hmm... You claim it was built to battle sin, if that ws true, how come X-2 SpoilerShuyin and Lenne became involved with Vegnagun? Before the end of the machina war, before the appearence of Sin?

[Tavrobel]

That's because it was explicitly stated in the game. I couldn't care less about what and when or why, because FFX-2 was a really crappy game with plot holes, and very little symbolism beyond "look at us, we made this game to attract people into playing it". Biggest waste of money in my life. Even worse than that dollar I paid my friend to do my Trig homework for me that one time. Every single answer was... correct. Not my style of work, obviously.

(SPOILER)
And Sin did appear before the end of the war; just not that long did it have between him destroying Zanarkand and ending the war. Shuyin escaped the battle anyways, and Shuyin snuck into Bevelle, as did Lenne, which explains how Shuyin was to use the weapon. The war was either already over, or SO shortly before it ended, it would not make a difference. I doubt they wanted to get Yevon's signature and say "you lost, now sign it to prove that you admit defeat".

They escaped, and they fled, and Shuyin had the plan to use Vegnagun to destroy the people of Bevelle. Remember, that from the first appearance, there is a bit of time before people can react. Considering the size of the war, and the technological evidence from Bevelle, it's not surprising they could build Vegnagun in such a short time. But since they died/shot, Shuyin could not wake Vegnagun. The FMVs of him talking to Vegnagun were probably not far from each other in length, maybe a couple of days or less.

[Little Blue]

Your making assumptions, and so am I, I admit. But your assumptions rely on precise timing, within days. (SPOILER)In the sphere with Shuyin in the cage, you clearly hear on of the Guards taunting him about Zanarkand not giving up yet (recalling from memory, so I might be wrong). This clearly implies that bevelle and Zanarkand were still in contact with one another. Also, quoting maechen:

Maechen: Where to begin? About a thousand years ago, Lenne was a popular
songstress in Zanarkand. The talk of the town, you might say. In a more peaceful
age, she might have lived out her years as a performer. But the times-and her
talents-did not allow such a thing to be. You see, Lenne's gift for singing was
matched by her genius in the summoner's arts. When then Machina War began, all
summoners were sent to the front lines. Zanarkand was hopelessly outnumbered,
and Lenne knew she would not return home alive. Nonetheless, she was prepared to
lay down her life to protect her people. Yet there was one person who refused to
let Lenne die. Yes, he would do anything to save her. He was...a young man,
Lenne's lover.

Rikku: Shuyin?

Maechen: I...don't know. His name has been lost to history. Whatever his name,
the youth endeavored to steal the enemy's machina weapon and save Lenne.
However...

This implies the war was on going when this all happened, not near the end, with Sin's appearance and Zanarkands destruction as you believe.

[Tavrobel]

(SPOILER)They were interrogating him about trying to use Vegnagun. He yels out in anger, asking "why am I being held here", and claiming "it was the only way to save the summoner (singular, so it refers to Lenne). I base this on the Eternal Calm video-sphere (where it is clearly Tidus, not Shuyin, as in FFX-2). This means he survived after he got shot, if not corporeally, then at least in spirit.
And technically, "near the end" is still during the war, until its actual conclusion. Of course I make the assumption only because it is in the game, which is considered the ultimate canon. Otherwise, I would say there are a few inconsistencies, and that Vegnagun could not possibly have been originally developed to fight Sin, but planned to only after Sin's initial appearance.

[Jessweeee♪]

You know this post looks very funny if you read it without highlighting the spoilers.

please someone give me answers to these 3 questions I cried aloud with mirth and merriment...however

heh...i love that censor.

[Dr.M]

ok, im really, really, really confused now. and i can't say anything coz i don't no how to make thos spoiler bits, as sad as that might sound. i think we need a timeline of somesort to work out when everything happened.thats just a sejestion tho.