And I had such an inocent image of her.

[Future Esthar]

Actually, where does it state that if you kill someone who has a viewer inside, they die? If you want to use Squall in Laguna as an example, think again and consider the paradox involved.

Now matter how weird that sounds that´s what happens.
We SEE the characters taking the damage back.
PS:Maybe it was a proof that time is not set in stone?

And Ellone doesn't send Ultimecia to a person in past that dies, the game says that Ellone needs to send both Rinoa and Ultimecia to a Sorceress in past to make Time compression possible (if my memory is right)

I don´t said that.
I said that Elone can easily send Ulti to the past inside a person who dies before the present day WHEN SHE MEETS EDEA.

That way Seed´s creation is not necessary anymore.
I am not only talking in the Pandora.
I am talking everytime Edea looks for Elle and find her.

If you think a little what makes sense is Edea trying to scape from Elle after Elle knows she is doing evil things(not the opposite).

[Sir Bahamut]

Now matter how weird that sounds that´s what happens.
We SEE the characters taking the damage back.

I seem to remember that if you let Laguna be K.O'd in the dream sequences, yoiu'll find that Squall is KO'd whe you get back to the real world. I may be wrong, but is that what you are referring to?

Oh, and can someone else besides Future confirm or dispute that =P

PS:Maybe it was a proof that time is not set in stone?

No, it was not.

[Moon Rabbits]

This theory is wrong FE.

1. You said something about the Junction Machine Ellone up there, but I don't understand you (alot of the time) and the reason they don't destroy the machine is not because someone will re build it but because they don't know where it is, and they can't stop Odine from building it because his ego would get in the way and he'd do it anyway. They couldn't really kill Odine either, since he really isn't doing anything wrong when you think about it.

2. When someone is sent into the past and the person they're sent into dies, they don't suffer the same fate. I can back this up because on the Escape Pod, Ellone says herself that "I guess it's not possible to change the future" or something like that, and if someone was sent back into the past and their vessel died they would die also which means the future would be changed, which is impossible.
I can back this up secondly because when Squall and Co. are sent into Laguna and Co.'s past they aren't controlling them, they're watching. We, the Player, are controlling Laguna, but we aren't an aspect in game so what Squall and Co. see is really jsut the past being played out like a movie, they can't change it.
Also, all that is sent into the past by Ellone is someone's consciousness (sp) and that doesn't really get killed physically.
Final proof for this point is that when Squall is in the past he doesn't feel Laguna's leg cramping, he can't change what Laguna is saying, he has no control...this is weak proof but it helps proove my point about dying in the past. (The reason Squall comes back KOd when Laguna is KOd in the past is merely a gameplay aspect, not a story aspect).

3. As I stated above (and you ignored, FE) Ellone cannot send someone into the past forever, she'd lose control to stress and exauhstion eventually just like she did on the Escape Pod when she was trying to save Rinoa (remember how she collapsed?)

So, after reading all this we see that SeeD are very important, if not the most important part of the plan. Why? Because all Ellone is doing is allowing Ultimecia to achieve her goal of time compression by sending her further back in time to do whatever she is she does to start the compression, the SeeDs are actually getting rid of her when they travel to the future.

In reality they could ruin Ultimecia's plans in a much simpler, more bloodsoaked way. There are two people that Ultimecia needs to achieve her goal, Ellone and Odine. Odine builds Junction Machine Ellone, which Ultimecia uses to come back, possess Rinoa and then be sent back further by Ellone. So the SeeDs could kill Ellone+Odine and Ultimecia's plans would be ruined because she'd have no way of travelling time. but because the SeeDs would never resort to such an act, they must go to the future and kill Ultimecia, proving them to be really very important to the plan.

[Leeza]

Those people complaining about theory threads are contributing nothing to the topic. You don't have to participate if you don't want to

Exactly and I will also go further as to start handing out warnings to everyone who posts to complain or post anything off-topic.

[Future Esthar]

2. When someone is sent into the past and the person they're sent into dies, they don't suffer the same fate. I can back this up because on the Escape Pod, Ellone says herself that "I guess it's not possible to change the future" or something like that, and if someone was sent back into the past and their vessel died they would die also which means the future would be changed, which is impossible.
I can back this up secondly because when Squall and Co. are sent into Laguna and Co.'s past they aren't controlling them, they're watching. We, the Player, are controlling Laguna, but we aren't an aspect in game so what Squall and Co. see is really jsut the past being played out like a movie, they can't change it.
Also, all that is sent into the past by Ellone is someone's consciousness (sp) and that doesn't really get killed physically.
Final proof for this point is that when Squall is in the past he doesn't feel Laguna's leg cramping, he can't change what Laguna is saying, he has no control...this is weak proof but it helps proove my point about dying in the past. (The reason Squall comes back KOd when Laguna is KOd in the past is merely a gameplay aspect, not a story aspect).

Really?

Nor the past nor the future is changed.

Time period 1(from Kiros perspective):Zell´s consciousness is sent into Kiro´s head(for example).
Time period 2:Kiros get killed.
Time period 3:Someone revive Kiros(after our characters awake).
Time period 4(From Zell´s perpective):Ellone sent our characters counsciousness into the past.
Time period 5:Zell experience Kiros getting killed and die himself.
Time period 6:Our characters awake and revive Zell.

These time periods are in cronological order.
Past is not changed because,you see,it is Ulti who would take the damage from the dying person,not the opposite.
And if that ever happens,it was because Elle would send Ulti´s consciousness to the past and this very event would be destined,and so the damage taken itself.

As I stated above (and you ignored, FE) Ellone cannot send someone into the past forever, she'd lose control to stress and exauhstion eventually just like she did on the Escape Pod when she was trying to save Rinoa (remember how she collapsed?)

No,I don´t ignored and I explained this.
Ellone only needs to sent Ulti from Edea´s body further into the past into a person on a time period where this person his dying.
Thereafter she should brought Ulti´s back into her body.The damage would be taken back and she would be dead.

[Moon Rabbits]

Really?

Nor the past nor the future is changed.

Time period 1(from Kiros perspective):Zell´s consciousness is sent into Kiro´s head(for example).
Time period 2:Kiros get killed.
Time period 3:Someone revive Kiros(after our characters awake).
Time period 4(From Zell´s perpective):Ellone sent our characters counsciousness into the past.
Time period 5:Zell experience Kiros getting killed and die himself.
Time period 6:Our characters awake and revive Zell.

These time periods are in cronological order.
Past is not changed because,you see,it is Ulti who would take the damage from the dying person,not the opposite.
And if that ever happens,it was because Elle would send Ulti´s consciousness to the past and this very event would be destined,and so the damage taken itself.

First off, the characters don't die in battle, they're KOd...that's off topic but just so ya know.

Secondly, Kiros getting KOd and in turn KOing Zell when you return to the present is PURELY a gameplay aspect, not a storyline aspect.

Thirdly, if whatever happened to the vessel happened to the person within them, then whoever was sent into Ward when they jumped off the cliff wouldn't be able to talk, just like Ward. In that instance I believe I had Selphie sent into the past, and when they jumped off the cliff and came back to the present, Selphie could talk just fine, proving that whatever happens in the past stays in the past.

[Sir Bahamut]

I have to admit that Future's idea is quite interesting really. He's correct that it wouldn't have to be changing the past, thus keeping with the ingame facts about time. It sort of reminds me of the Matrix, where if you die in the Matrix, you die in reality, except here it's a case of past and present instead.

However, aisle_s just pointed out a flaw which seems to be irrepairable. Either all physical damage is transferred, or nothing is. Anything else makes no sense....

[Future Esthar]

I have to admit that Future's idea is quite interesting really. He's correct that it wouldn't have to be changing the past, thus keeping with the ingame facts about time. It sort of reminds me of the Matrix, where if you die in the Matrix, you die in reality, except here it's a case of past and present instead.

Exactly,thanks.

However, aisle_s just pointed out a flaw which seems to be irrepairable. Either all physical damage is transferred, or nothing is. Anything else makes no sense....

And where is this a flaw?

Oh,I see.
You are referring to the throat thingy.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

Let me reply to the first post:

Ok, we have already explained in many other threads that a consciousness is sent ot the past, they only view the events at hand. Also, SeeD was created to get rid of possible danger to the world and edea had them established in case if she lost control(of her powers) this is why she had white seed around her before she was possessed. This is in the game ppl just so some of you don't know.

Ellone did not know of the full potential of her powers till some time in the game. For instance, when she took Squall to rnioa in space. She did not know if she could send him to somone that she didn't know. Also, when she ulti and another person( i forgot) to a different time and brought one back. She had never sent a consciousness that was outside of its body already plus another persons consciousness to the past before.

I didn't read the whole thread yet so this might be late.

[Future Esthar]

I see.
Seed is necessary then.
But then why don´t they use my idea on the plan to defeat Ulti?
This time using Rinoa instead of Edea of course.
Seed would not need to go to the future anymore.

[Ramza Beoulve]

Because if they would do that, Ultimecia would never reach Edea in past and then nothing could have happened 'til this moment, another time would have existed, were SeeD don't exist and where Ellone could have died, etc. etc. etc., and then they couldn't create the situation.

[Shiny]

Think a little.
Was Garden and Seed really necessary?

OMG hard thinking! Let's see...yes Seed and Garden is important to an extent. Without SeeD the oprhanes wouldn't have met back together in an attempt to destroy Edea. And Squall wouldn't have met Rinoa, try to destroy another soceress Adel and eventually save the freakin' world. So yeah, I think there was a point to having SeeD and the Gardens. I think Square likes using symbolizing and mythology to their games so everything adds up prettyful-y. Garden and SeeD seem to symbolize growth and need for improvement. The people in SeeD were all young (teenagers) who lacked in certain areas (for example Squall lacked emotinally). *sigh* Too tired too finish right now. All in all it's just a game. There really doesn't need to be an explanation for everything. Square decided to put certain contents in the game to progress the storyline.

[Future Esthar]

Yes,they are necessary for somethings but not for defeting Ulti.
Just teach Ellone using her ability and she would protect herself like a god.

Because if they would do that, Ultimecia would never reach Edea in past and then nothing could have happened 'til this moment, another time would have existed, were SeeD don't exist and where Ellone could have died, etc. etc. etc., and then they couldn't create the situation.
__________________

Yeah,I know that all hapened but I am just saying there is no necessity for that.
Ellone do the job quite well.
There would be no need for them going to the future to defeat Ulti nor Squall going back to the orphanage time.

[Ramza Beoulve]

Yeah,I know that all hapened but I am just saying there is no necessity for that.
Ellone do the job quite well.
There would be no need for them going to the future to defeat Ulti nor Squall going back to the orphanage time.

Yeah, but thanks to Squall and the others, Ellone learned how far her powers could go. There was no one else to teach her.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

exactly, ellone found the full potential of her powers later on. She only knew how to send cnnsciousness to the past of a person she knew. With these new found abilities of the same power, her uses for it expanded. it was necessary for all this to happen.