R = L = N = E = K = N = ...... = U

[Lychon]

Destiny and fate are indeed subjective, but this is a game, and since Square decided to include allusions to fate all over their game ("Liberi Fatali" even means children of destiny, and that's one of the main musical themes of the game; Ultimecia further speaks of Squall being 'destined' to defeat her etc. etc.), this must be taken into account, and cannot simply be dismissed.

Exactly, this is a game, not reality. Therefore the concepts of what can be possible and what can be plausible are bent to an even greater degree. Fate and destiny become even more subjective, and the plausibility and possibility of Rinoa being Ultimecia fits quite nicely within this fantasy. Your defense about destiny is flawed because it is based on your interpretation. Sure, destiny may have played a part in the game, but this does not change the fact that Rinoa’s timeline has been changed because Ultimecia interfered with the past.

The fact that Ultimecia speaks of Squall being destined to defeat her only goes to support the R=U theory. If Ultimecia really is Rinoa, then she may still possess some remnant of her previous self. Her only purpose in life is to achieve time compression after she has been persecuted for so long and her lover Squall has long since died. Therefore, she may very well knowingly go to her death by beginning time compression and altering the past which will now result in Rinoa having her destined ‘happy’ future instead of the incorrect ‘sad’ future where she becomes Ultimecia.

As I said though, the question of whether or not time is static or dynamic is an open question. I have helped develop a static time concept which can be used to explain the time-travelling events in the game. However, a dynamic time theory has also been created. They both work, it's just that they differ in what 'simple logic' is assumed to apply to time in FF8 (an assumption which, considering that FF8 is a game and not the real world, is necessarily based more on opinion then fact).

Time is not static in Final Fantasy VIII. If you refuse to see this then you are refusing to acknowledge the entire premise of the game. Ultimecia’s mere interference in the past is altering her future, but she is unaffected because she begins time compression. The only way she can survive is if time compression is sustained, but that does not happen and Ultimecia is defeated. Also, Ultimecia’s and Squall’s timelines are merged together by the beginning of time compression. There is no way that time is linear or ‘static’ in the game. If you want to support that theory, that is your choice.

The dynamic theory of the Final Fantasy VIII plot works much better than any kind of ‘static’ theory. It is simple logic to know that if someone interferes in the past from the future they will leave a changing mark on the past, especially if they cause so much trouble as Ultimecia did. ‘Dynamic’ is not even the correct word to use when describing time in the Final Fantasy VIII universe. The correct word to use is ‘non-linear.’

You say you agree with dynamic time; that's fine with me. I disagree, but cannot say you are wrong. I hope you can respect that we merely disagree here.

We do disagree about the qualities of time in Final Fantasy VIII. I go one above you by stating that I completely disagree with any notion of a ‘static’ or ‘linear’ timeline in Final Fantasy VIII.

Exactly; you are discussing an argument which is based on the notion that the past can be changed. Since I think that time in FF8 is set in stone, there is really no point for me to argue further because a key assumption on your scenario is based on something I simply disagree with.

Again, my views on the actual R=U scenario you describe I believe are well recorded elsewhere.

Sir B.

Time is not set in stone in Final Fantasy VIII. What don’t you understand about the concept that if someone from the future meddles with the past, then the past timeline will have their actions imprinted as events? It is simple logic: Ultimecia is from the future and she interfered with the past. If Ultimecia had never attempted time compression and remained confined to her own future time, then the events of Final Fantasy VIII would never have transpired the way they did, and Rinoa and Squall’s futures would have been very different than what they will now be after the end of Final Fantasy VIII.

The logic here can be disagreed with, but it cannot be disproved. Do you honestly believe that the events of Squall’s and Rinoa’s lives would have been the same even if Ultimecia had never interfered with their time period? It’s preposterous and goes against reason and rationale.

P.S. I asked you before to keep the posts short and sweet so that I can keep my own responses short and you don’t start complaining again about how long the posts are. Well you did not want to do this, so my posts will only double in size from now on.

-LYCHON