Is Zelda an RPG or an Adventure Game?

[Vyk]

You can talk to people and buy items in lots of games. Zelda set up the gameplay style for others to refine, that were never any question about genre. Tomb Raider was built off the formula. Beyond Good and Evil totally refined the formula. There's plenty of others. All considered either action, adventure, or action-adventure games. The fact that you can save your game (especially these days) or buff out your character with new/better items and/or more health means nothing. And NPCs are common in almost all genres now.

I think most people want to believe its an RPG because it's kinda slow and set in a fantasy setting.

[Lychon]

If you can’t understand the difference between a point-and-click game and an adventure game, then you shouldn’t be arguing about them. Your arguments are weak and have no basis, nor do they cite sources for their defenses. Now, let’s go through each one and see where exactly you are mistaken, mmmmmmkay?

If it is simplier for you to process, please replace every mention I make of "Point & Click" with "Point & Click Adventure Game", mmmkay?

Like I stated above, adventure games and point-and-click games are not the same thing. You can keep telling yourself they are if you want to support the foundations of your belief in yourself, but that doesn’t change the truth at all. Not only are point-and-click games different from adventure games, but “Point-and-Click Adventure Games” are also very different from actual ‘adventure’ games. The main implication of point-and-click games is that “software interfaces can be controlled solely through the mouse, with little or no input from keyboard.” By this definition, we can issue a blanket statement which would be misleading: strategy games are not point-and-click games, nor are adventure games after the early 1990’s.

Please, would you care to tell me where I said that any of the games you cited previously were text adventure? What I said was that the Point & Click genre was an evolution of the text adventure genre.

Ok, let me see if I can get you to comprehend this (we tried this in one of my psychology classes, it’s called “step functioning.”)
The point-and-click genre WAS an evolution of the text adventure. Following the point-and-click genre, there was a second evolution. (You aren’t lost yet are you? Mmmmkay) That evolution, was called, ADVENTURE games. Like I stated above, you can keep telling yourself that King’s Quest or Gabriel Knight or whatever else you can think of is a point-and-click game, but it is simply erroneous. They are adventure games, and differ greatly in complexity and actual interactivity with the related point-and-click genre, and even less with the text adventure genre.

Ever play Zork? It was text adveture game realeased many a moon ago.
Okay, following me to this point?
As time passed, graphics were introduced to many of these games.
Hence we reach games such as the initial Kings Quest, which is essentially just a text adventure with graphics.

Here is where your logic deteriorates even further. I think I know now what your problem is and why you cannot understand the concept of the modern adventure game, which by the way began after the early 1990’s. You are in what we call your “comfort zone,” where you’ve been accustomed to grouping gaming genres in your own little system, regardless of whether or not it is accepted in the general gaming community. To even state relate King’s Quest to the text adventure genre is ludicirous, and I believe you may even be fibbing when you say you have played this game. Ok, got that? Now, once the text adventure genre was done away with, point and click games came into being such as the INITIAL Monkey Island or King’s Quest. You seem to be stuck in this “point-and click” phase, kind of like someone stuck in the 1980’s and refuses to acknowledge any other developments in music.

As stated before, following this point-and-click genre, true adventure games which involved more than pointing and clicking, more than just basic “text adventure puzzles with graphics,” were released and a new genre was born. This is something acknowledged as fact, and I still have a hard time believing that you actually defend some established adventure games as if they were “point-and-clickers.”

Are you following the progress so far? I know it’s tough but hang in there. (Your misconceptions have to be crushed before you can establish the true ones).

Many people at this time expressed their frustration with this verbal based system of exploration.
You still with me? This part is especially important!
A system was pioneered (for which Sierra is often credited), whereby people could play through such games using a graphical interface. Instead of spending half an hour trying to find the right word for an action, all they had to do was POINT & CLICK!
(Note: I'm actually old enough to have lived through 90% of this.)[/color]

Aww, he’s using italics and bold, how cute! You know, I often do the same thing when I want to emphasize a weak argument. Now, as far as Sierra goes, I am well aware of their history as Sierra On-Line, up to the point when they were dismantled by Vivendi.

You erroneously relate a game function with its title. Yes, you can point and click in many of Sierra’s ADVENTURE games, but they are not of the “point-and-click” genre. Just like many RPG’s have “turn-based combat” but they are not CALLED TURN BASED GAMES. Got that? Good. Now, I hope you can see how your logic here is completely fallacious and baseless. I hope you’ve been paying attention, because now we’re really getting somewhere. Let’s move on.

And it still is, when you refer to those kind of games. Are you going to tell me that Syberia and Syberia II aren't Point & Click games?

You have to have virtually no knowledge of the gaming community to state that Syberia or Syberia II are point and click games. Listen to this: They are ADVENTURE GAMES, not of the point-and-click genre, or they can possibly categorized as ADVENTURE PUZZLE GAMES. The point-and-click genre died out in the early 1990’s, but I guess you’re stuck in that time period and refuse to acknowledge the facts. Here is another wikipedia article you can check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syberia
While you’re at it, check out the Syberia II article and let me know what you fing, mmmmkay?

But hey, if you really want to be so incredibly fuzzy and trivial with your phrasing, then technically they are "Point & Click Adventure Games".[/color]

Incorrect again! I wonder if you will ever get one fact right in your entire response! They are purely adventure games; the point-and-click name and genre died in the early 1990’s, and a new genre emerged called ADVENTURE. So technically speaking, they are ADVENTURE games.

Actually, I have. Before you were even out of diapers.

Calm down son, it’s all right. You have no idea how old I am. It looks like you are assuming my profile is correct, just like you are assuming your delusional belief that the “point-and-click” genre is still in existence. Tsk, tsk, tsk. I honestly doubt you’ve ever heard of the King’s Quest or Gabriel Knight series before I mentioned them, and you most certainly have no mastery or detailed knowledge of the game if you consider them to be “point-and-clickers.” King’s Quest is an ADVENTURE GAME, and Gabriel Knight can be classified as a MYSTERY ADVENTURE game. Read up on this because I am tired of citing common knowledge to you.

How, exactly?
Yes, Kings Quest IV (one of my personal favourite games, ever, for record's sake) and Gabriel Knight were genuinely mature games in both their execution and their stories, with an amazing level of depth and intelligence, but this does not change the fact that you POINT with your mouse, and you CLICK on the screen, to move your avatar through the stories, often using items to solve puzzles in the scenery.

Again, you make the error of assuming a function of the game is the basis for the entire genre’s title. This was true back in the time of text adventures and “point-and-clickers,” but is no longer valid, especially with the coming of new genres after the ADVENTURE genre, such as RPG, strategy, FPS, sports, sims, etc…The point-and-click genre was replaced in name and in component by the ADVENTURE GENRE.

Played them all. I recall quite clearly pointing and clicking on things, using my inventory of items to solve the puzzles in the gameword.

Aww, come on now, I thought we were making progress!!! These games are all ADVENTURE games. Your logic of pointing and clicking is fallacious- I can play an entire strategy game by pointing and clicking; I can play an entire puzzle game by pointing and clicking; I can play an entire SIMULATION game by pointing and clicking. Therefore your logic null and void. Let’s keep moving; hopefully you’ll be able to comprehend your error and we’ll get you out of the dark ages!

Case in Point:
"Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars" is a Point & Click game.
"Broken Sword: The Sleeping Dragon" is an adventure game.[/color]

Incorrect once again son! Ok, pay attention, I’m going to say this slowly to you, mmmkay? Broken Sword is….an….ADVENTURE game, both CIRCLE OF BLOOD (the correct name for Shadow of the Templars) and Sleeping Dragon. In the United States of America, by the way, Sleeping Dragon was published by “The Adventure Company.” You caught on to anything yet? Maybe? Good, let’s move on son, mmmmmmmmkay?

Did I say that Hearts and Solitaire were puzzle games? No. I said the list of games you mentioned were either puzzle games or card games. Please, read what I actually type first, mmmkay?

Once again, calm down son. It is normal to feel frustration when your belief and concept system is being systematically disemboweled. You did say Minesweeper was a puzzle game, don’t try to circumvent this since you’ve already been proven wrong. The list I mentioned are ADVENTURE games. You seem to confuse yourself with all these genres because, once again, you are stuck in the period when point-and-click actually existed.

Why don't you read the first sentence of that article and then get back to me, mmmkay?

Here is the article for Gabriel Knight: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Knight
Again, read the first sentence and get back to me, mmmkay?

Just in case your eyes refused to see the FACTS, here is the website for Gabriel Knight and King’s Quest once again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Knight & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_Quest

In fact, here is the first sentence from the Gabriel Knight article: Gabriel Knight is the title character in a series of adventure games produced by the Sierra Corporation in the 1990s.

And here is the first sentence in the King’s Quest article for you son:
King's Quest is an adventure game series made by the American computer game company Sierra Entertainment.

Now, you were saying? Keep reading those sentences and maybe you’ll realize what they actually say one day. (Hint: ADVENTURE; I don’t know what you call it in Britain, but these games are from the UNITED STATES, and we call them ADVENTURE, mmmmmmmmmmmkay?)

(I would never actually take the opinion of Wikipedia seriously, seeing how most of it's information is usually misinformed tripe submitted by internet fanboys, but if you feel that it's a credible source to help "prove" your point, then I may as well use it's articles to "prove" mine.)

Wikipedia is the most convenient and easy way to access valid information fast. It’s information is confirmed and SOURCED, and it is meticulously watched for vandalism and misinformation. Also, by citing wikipedia, you actually proved MY points. All the articles of the games in question classified the game genres as ADVENTURE, mmmmkay? So get your facts straight and realize that after the early 1990’s, the genre point-and-click is no longer existent. Welcome to the real world son.

My point from the very beginning is that the games you listed were not simply adventure games. They were Point & Click Adventure Games, which is a very different beast to the basic adventure game itself, which is the genre into which Zelda lies.[/color]

[/quote]

Incorrect once again. Following the point-and-click genre (which I believe is pathetic compared to the greatness of some of the finest ADVENTURE games), the ADVENTURE genre came into its own. It’s not classified as point and click, or point and click adventure, but simply ADVENTURE. Got it? Zelda is NOT a BASIC adventure. The early Zelda’s were RPG’s and the later ones on N64 and up are ACTION ADVENTURES. Once again, I don’t know if you have some kind of different thought system in Britain about this, but this is how it is in the United States of America. Hope you were able to understand this.


In conclusion, it turns out it is YOU who is taking the phrase “point-and-click” too literally, by applying it to any game you see with the point-and-click characteristic. This isn’t going to fly, and the sooner you realize that the point-and-click genre is long dead, the sooner you’ll be able to appreciate great ADVENTURE games. Every single game you mentioned as point and click is categorized as ADVENTURE, so wake up and smell the new age, MMMMMMMMkayyyyy?

[Flying Mullet]

Holy crap-a-Jesus, I think the two of you are taking this whole "Is Zelda a RPG" thing a bit far.

[Lychon]

Holy crap-a-Jesus, I think the two of you are taking this whole "Is Zelda a RPG" thing a bit far.

This guy, "Vincent Valentine," is stuck in his own little world and thinks all adventure games are actually subsidiaries of "point-and-click" genre. The adventure genre is its OWN genre. Early Zelda are usually classified as RPG's, and the later ones are ADVENTURE games, more specifically ACTION ADVENTURE.

Just because you can point-and-click in an adventure game, does not make that game a "point-and-clicker." You can point and click in many game genres, such as simulation and strategy, but that does not change their genres. The Point-and-Click genre died when it was replaced with the adventure genre after the early 1990s.

By the way Vincent Valentine, I am waiting for a response from you regarding my main post up above. If you think you can shade the eyes of the members of this website with gibberish about pointing and clicking, then you are sadly mistaken.

-LYCHON

[Flying Mullet]

Holy crap-a-Jesus, I think the two of you are taking this whole "Is Zelda a RPG" thing a bit far.

This guy, "Vincent Valentine," is stuck in his own little world...

It takes two to tango...

[Vincent Valentine]

This guy, "Vincent Valentine," is stuck in his own little world...

It takes two to tango...

My thoughts exactly.

For the record, I'm not British...

[Levian]

You guys should do this on national TV.

[Lychon]

This guy, "Vincent Valentine," is stuck in his own little world...

It takes two to tango...

My thoughts exactly.

For the record, I'm not British...

If you're not British, then why did you cite the subtitle of Broken Sword as "Shadow of the Templars," which is how it is known in Britian? Either you were lying about playing this game just to boost your weak argument, or you are lying now about not being British.

Whatever the situation is, I hope you've realized that Adventure games are NOT point-and-clickers, and by not making a formal response to my main post, you have conceded this argument.

-LYCHON

[Vincent Valentine]

If you're not British, then why did you cite the subtitle of Broken Sword as "Shadow of the Templars," which is how it is known in Britian? Either you were lying about playing this game just to boost your weak argument, or you are lying now about not being British.

I don't recall ever claiming that I was British... I live in Ireland good sir, which you would have realised had you simply looked up and to the right of any post I've made in this thread. Hence why I referred to it under the European name.

Whatever the situation is, I hope you've realized that Adventure games are NOT point-and-clickers, and by not making a formal response to my main post, you have conceded this argument.

-LYCHON

Nope.

(As for why I'm not replying to your larger post, it is filled with so much arrogant stubborness, some many pathetic assumptions (such as assuming that I'm just making up knowing about some of those game... Who is sitting in their "comfort zone" now?), and a general level of ignorance, to justify your logic, that doing so would be a complete waste of my time.

I end this now. Lets get back on subject.

(I can see the obvious happening here. You'll reply, saying that the real reason I'm not answering is because I don't know what I'm talking about. Feel free to do so if you wish.)

P.S. If you really so desperately need proof that I do actually know what Kings Quest, etc. are, I can send you the games files straight from my hard drive, photographic proof of me HOLDING the games in my hand, or anything else. I don't have Gabriel Knight, but I'm more than well aware of what it is and it's importance within the point and click and adventure genres.

P.P.S. If you're actually not 20, saying so in your profile is just plain stupid.

- over and out

[Lychon]

Lol, you make me laugh. Not only have you delved deeper into worthless points of defense, but you have completely avoided my disproof of your entire foundation.

Nope.
(As for why I'm not replying to your larger post, it is filled with so much arrogant stubborness, some many pathetic assumptions (such as assuming that I'm just making up knowing about some of those game... Who is sitting in their "comfort zone" now?), and a general level of ignorance, to justify your logic, that doing so would be a complete waste of my time.
I end this now. Lets get back on subject.

The only individual here who is stubborn is you. You cannot see the error of your logic and perceptions because you refuse to admit to simple facts. You live in Ireland and you dare make assumptions of what video games originating from the United States are called? Who do you think you are? There is no such genre as “point-and-click” anymore, mmmkay? Get this through your head and quit embarrassing yourself through continued piteous arguments about adventure games.

It is not a question of you wasting your time to “justify your logic.” You have no justification; all you have is a worthless and false comfort zone in your homeland of Ireland. No offense to Ireland, but I would expect someone influenced by Catholicism such as yourself to have a closed mind about the truth in this world.

P.S. If you really so desperately need proof that I do actually know what Kings Quest, etc. are, I can send you the games files straight from my hard drive, photographic proof of me HOLDING the games in my hand, or anything else. I don't have Gabriel Knight, but I'm more than well aware of what it is and it's importance within the point and click and adventure genres.

I don’t care for proof of you actually having the games. Maybe one day when you actually understand that it is an ADVENTURE game, and not a “point-and-click” or “point-and-click adventure” game, we can talk again. I wonder if we ask Roberta Williams (you know, the creator of the series?) if King’s Quest falls under the genre of “point-and-click” or “ADVENTURE” which one she would say. I know for a fact that she would say adventure, since I have read interviews with her where she specifically answers this question. If I can locate this on the internet, I’ll be happy to bring it to your attention.

P.P.S. If you're actually not 20, saying so in your profile is just plain stupid.

Oh so now I’m stupid, huh? Wow, you can really argue there son, you really showed me didn’t you? While you degrade to indirect name-calling, I’ll state this once more: you live in Ireland and you dare make factual claims about American games? The genre is ADVENTURE, not some pathetic off-spring of the text adventure era called “point and click.”

P.S. And I never said I lied about my profile. I said that you are too carefree in assuming information, just like you falsely assume ADVENTURE games to be pathetic "point-and-clickers."

-LYCHON

[MecaKane]

I find this entire argument to be shallow and pedantic.

[Rye]

You know what Zelda is? It's a VIDEO GAME. And that's good enough for me.

[Vincent Valentine]

You cannot see the error of your logic and perceptions because you refuse to admit to simple facts. You live in Ireland and you dare make assumptions of what video games originating from the United States are called? Who do you think you are?

Revolution (R.I.P) is a British developement studio. The game orginates from Britian, not from the US. Seeing as you're from Canada though (or is that another lie), wouldn't that mean you're in just as little a place to talk about it as I am?

So I have to be American to know about something American? (Even though Broken Sword:Shadow of the Templars is of British origin.) Uhhh... okay.

It is not a question of you wasting your time to “justify your logic.” You have no justification; all you have is a worthless and false comfort zone in your homeland of Ireland. No offense to Ireland, but I would expect someone influenced by Catholicism such as yourself to have a closed mind about the truth in this world.

Now you're just delving into blatant bigotry, and possibly the most depressing level of pure, childish arrogance I've seen in a long time. For what little it's worth, I'm not Catholic. I'm agnostic. I believe I don't any more answers than anyone else when it comes to such matter, but that's a subject for another thread entirely.

And I know plenty about the "truths of the world" also, thank you.

Oh so now I’m stupid, huh? Wow, you can really argue there son, you really showed me didn’t you? While you degrade to indirect name-calling, I’ll state this once more: you live in Ireland and you dare make factual claims about American games?

1) I never said you were stupid. At least you can spell. I said it was a stupid thing to do.

2) What does someone's geographical location have to do with the knowledge of something? By your logic, you couldn't know about Final Fantasy unless you lived in Japan.

3) It isn't an American game, as also previously stated. It's British.

I'm out, for real this time. The merry green fields of Ireland await.
And alcohol. Lots and lots of alcohol.

Edit: Before I go blow my last few remaining braincells in a binge of whiskey and vodka... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_Software... for your benefit. I knew this stuff without having to resort to wikipedia, haven for psuedo-intellectuals the world over. British development company. The game was the creation of the minds of the people who owned said company. Virgin Interactive prooceded to buy up the rights to publish it.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

OK this thread's just gotten entirely derailed. Lychon, Vincent Valentine, enough of that. We don't need anti-religious sentiments nor general belligerence here.