Yes, alot of RPGs can.*coughFFVIcough*
Yes, alot of RPGs can.
As I said earlier Ed. Xenogears had more development in it than ff7 because it was a much longer game. But the quality of the development while it was taking place was better in ff7.
The characters in Xenogears were not quite as captivating or interesting as the characters in ff7 were.
Quality of development does not mean by the end of the game which rpg had more development. It means while the development is taking place simultaneously which one is better. And in that regard ff7 beats out xenogears hands down.
I say no it doesn't and I am sure most will agree with me again. You are stating it as fact when it is your opinion.
I say it is my way based on my preference. Sure, I could go into how I think you are wrong because almost all villians have a back story that gets explain in detail which takes up that other 30 hours of time thus making the time you characters are on screen that much better and in sync with FFVII. Or how they actually go back in time and explain the events of 500 years ago which doesn't have much bearing on your character's development in the game.
Sorry but I think you are wrong. I also think the quality of the characters taking place simutaneously is better in gears.
FFVI and IX had a great cast of characters, as well as Disgaea (PLAY IT NOW!) and DQ8 makes me smile.
Kaycee says (12:06 AM):
whos' obama?
I'm sorry, are you playing a different FF7 to the one I did?
You know, the one with the incredibly generic party setup, minimal characterisation and pitful storyline?
One or two scenes describing a character's backstory != characterisation.
You've got the tough-but-silent guy who steadily opens up, the cheerful slutty girl, the cheerful but not slutty girl, the big tough guy, the weird non-human character, the loud tough guy, the tough-but-silent guy with a DARK PAST and the ninja girl from a Japanese-ish locale.
In fact all of them have some kind of HORRIBLE AWFUL SECRET which they overcome in the progress of the game, it's sickening.
There's very little variation in the male characters, and the same applies to the females as well, not to mention the repetition of their character types from numerous games, films, books, whatever.
FF7 is a pathetic game, on all counts, and is only good for it's boss battle theme.
Xenogears, Lunar, heck freakin' Final Fantasy Tactics beat down that broken shell of a game.
And what lindy said. It made me cry to hard to quote it up thoughOriginally Posted by nik0tine
Yeah pretty much.
Although everyone is entitled to their opinion, would it hurt to not use such generalizations? Unless you just hate the game so much and think of half-assed reasons why you hate it. It'd be better to say that you just hate it, without giving such reasons, if that's all you'll come up with.
And don't complain about stock characters. Those type of characters were pretty fresh during that era; and it's inevitable that that type of character would be used in another media in some form anyway.
There are RPGs with more complex plots than FFVII, obviously, but that doesn't mean that the game isn't deep.
I'd hardly consider calling into question the supposedly "strong" character development "half-assed reasons", when it's the heart of the argument.
And I don't see what better there is to use other than generalisations, when the characters in the game themselves are generalisations of stereotypical RPG characters.
If you think FF7 is deep, I suggest you stop considering paddling pools suitable for swimming.
Maybe those characters are re-used today, however, in FFVII's era, they were one of the first sets of characters to start those stock characters.
Except FF7's characters are repeats of those in FF4~6 and other SNES era games.
Try again.
Yeah, those character stereotypes were nothing new. Not only are they pretty much staples in every other media form (books, cartoons, movies, etc), they'd already been used multiple times in games. I really dont think VII's characters brought anything new to the table.
Honestly, while X wasnt a perfect game, I felt it had more realistic characterization... in the sheer fact that it isnt full of huge overblown character changes, but some of them grow and change and come to terms with things. Again, not saying it's perfect, but I liked the subtle changes as opposed to the big life-changing nonsense we see in most games.
I liked Fire Emblem's character development.. again, it's minimal, and you have a lot of different people in the party, but I liked that you could explore aspects of other characters by talking to them on the battlefield.
Star Ocean: The Second Story was good too, lots of little things revealed.
Xenogears would have to be the winner, however.
Then compare all the FFIV-VI characters (And other RPGs, etc.) to VII. There may always be a 'dark and mysterious' character, or a 'cheerful and annoying' character, or a 'non-human' character, but they won't all be the exact same character, is what I mean. And, it's pointless to complain about it, these characters have been used before, and most definitely will be used in RPGs in the future.
And, FFVII doesn't have the most complex plot of all time, but that by no means does it have a shallow plot. There are plenty of titles (previously mentioned by others) that would have a more complex plot then it does.
But now, I don't really care anymore. I'm not going to convince you of anything, so just complain about it all you want to
I cant say for sure, which is better, I have never played Xenogears before, though from the praise you guys are giving it I should. FFVII is my game though so i might be a little biased. Their both tied at 9.5 on IGN, although FFVII is ranked #2 alltime. Put it this way, I prefer Cloud to Tidus type characters, tough anti heroes to pretty boys.
Ok I will go into why I think the character development has better quality in ff7 than in xenogears.
Though the characters in Xenogears are deep and you find out alot about them the plot sets that trap on them (which many rpg's are guilty of) of creating characters that are put into odd situations and end up doing things that are a bit strange and unusual and out of character .
-18 year olds don't lead a ship and command a group of people in hopes of trying to take back his kingdom.
-16 year old boys are not part of a monestary
-16 year old girls are not part of a convent type atmosphere and are definitely not considered one of its leaders.
-18 year old girls do not command military units within an army
-29 year old men are not considered to be all knowledgeable and wise about the world
-People do not receive the title of Bishop by the age of 34
-29 year old men do not command an entire army for a country.
Now why I feel FF7's development is of better quality because it's characters are much easier for people of our world to relate to because they take on the personalities and have are dealing with the same kind of issues that people in our world deal with.
They pick a very good location to introduce you to the characters-i.e the slums- which is a location that everyone who plays the game can relate to and they can relate to how the people in those slums act because they know how people in the real world act in the slums.
They can understand why the Avalanche members want to get revenge on their government-because they feel that they have been repressed- And Avalanches way of getting that revenge seems very understandable.
Now after the Midgar section of the game all you basically do is just travel around finding things out about Sephiroth (which is not an over the top scenario thought up by the writers). And during that time you learn how each of the characters relate to each other in very good detail and why they want to join eachother in the fight. And also a very intriguing love triangle develops between Cloud, Tifa, and Aeris.
So in my opinion FF7's simplistic storyline made for very realistic characters and allowed you to get to know characters you could relate to.
On the other hand Xenogears complicated storyline tended to put it's cast of characters in rather odd situations. And though it was interesting learning things about them it didn't allow them to develop a cast of characters that the gamers could relate to.
And to top it all off though Xenogears soundtrack was good. FF7's soundtrack was absolutely timeless as far as video game music goes.
Who could ever forget Aeris's theme playing while she died and Sephiroth's theme to boot.
I don't get how in the hell you could relate to FF7's characters any more than Xenogears', when they're in an equally outlandish situation, unless of course you live in a world controlled by an evil corporation siphoning life out of the planet and spend your days chasing after a man in black.
Your suggestion of relating more to the characters? Entirely moot.
And realism? I hardly think discussion of a game set in a world entirely different for our own warrants the suggestions of REALISTIC characters.
Oh and the fact that all the characters in Xenogears have been linked continually through every cycle of reincarnation? Yeah, I'd say that was a good reason they're all together, compared to "OMGZ SHINRA IS EVIL, LETS BEET 'EM ;(".
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