Jenova & Sephiroth

[RPJesus]

I agree... mostly. As much as I can- I haven't actually got the whole, or even ver much, of the plot yet.
It's defintely Jenova thta's using Sephiroth, but I don't get how she is him. How she's taking his form. I though it was just that she was manipulating him (in all those ways you said).
Looking at AC, she's just manipulating Kadaj. He hasn't been completely taken over by him, because he keeps going on about being a 'remnance', a 'puppet'. He's actually hurt that he's not that important to her. She hasn't just taken on his from... or whatever.
I couldn't even see that with Sephiroth, but maybe. I supposed it was because he was mentally very unstable, and she was freakishly good at manipulating him.

They're trying to please her, amybe. At least Kadaj was. I suppose it was different with Sephiroth, but not so different.

[Amaru]

Hojo refers to the Ancients and Red XIII's races as 'species'. He says that they are both extinct. You don't protect the survival of an extinct species by letting one kill the other. As has already been mentioned, Hojo knew that he couldn't complete his research on Aeris in his lifetime. He needed another generation. By experimenting with Aeris mating with Red XIII, he could preserve both species and allow someone else to carry on his (or really Gast's) legacy.

Anyway, I am going to take my own advice that I should have done earlier, and leave this thread. I don't want to get banned, and if I stay here, that's what's going to happen. Everyone's had their say, insults have been slung on both sides, and no one's going to shift their believes on anything, evidence or not. So that's that. No hard feelings Forsaken. It wasn't you personally I was attacking, it's your ideas and the reasons behind them.

[Leucant]

Okay here's what i don't get... and i haven't played this game since i was 10 so don't laugh you bastards. So the whole time that you come in contact with Sephiroth throughout the game he is just a spectre or a projection of what Sephiroth was like? I know his body resided in the Northern Crater the whole time. I have never really thought about it til now and now i don't know what the hell is going on...see what happens because you think to much.

[Forsaken Lover]

Leucant and RP, I'll answer your ideas. Yes, it was Jenova you saw all the time through the game. Not once passed the Nibelheim memories and the time in Northern Crater is the person you talk toa nd interact with Sephiroth. You see, Jenova can shapeshift or quite simply, alter her body. Ifalan refers to her as a "he" in her accounts of when Jenova first appeared yet she is very feminine in the game. She can look like whatever she wants. But that's the thing. It's not merely physical. It is mental as well. She can read the minds of another and construct a false body and mind, completing a total, but false, double. It still operates on Jenova's mind and all, but the mind and body she formed is in a sense, "in contro." However, whatever decisions this false mind makes is in accordance with whatever the true mind of Jenova wants. Simply, it's its own personality, but it is below that of Jenova's.

My thesis on the other page explains all of this. You don't have to read the whole thing. It's explained early on.

And Amaru, I apologize as well. I get a bit caught up sometimes.

[gyaku_zuki]

@Gyaku: I was talking to FL.

Don't worry, although I quoted you, I merely used your post to give meaning to my own post, I know what you said was not directed at me.

I think its time this thread was laid to rest. It's impossible to reach a definitive conclusion at the present time and with the present information.

Maybe when Crisis Core is out this can be resolved one way or another?

PS: Apologies to anyone I insulted during this thread.

[Griff]

Well.......one COULD make the argument that the writers never really had any intention of definately saying who controlled who. Because both sides have valid arguments, who's to say the writer's didn't provide specifics on either scenario to help encourage discussion on the game, much like they did with the tifa/aeris situation. The second lesson of business is Controvercy Creates Cash after all.

After reading every post after this, it just seems like an even better possibility than when I first posted it.

[-N-]

Yeah, that usually happens in threads like these. This thread needs to die, though.

You'll see what I mean shortly.

Wow, my avatars are synchronized. This is a further rejection of the argument that Rinoa = Ultimecia. By the principles of the Time Compression, disjunct events only can occur with a phase delay. This can be proven with simple Fourier analysis of control systems. Unless of course the system just passes a signal, but it is clear Time Compression is a little more complex than a simple signal buffer.

Even badass rebels like you don't get to triple post I'm afraid - Psychotic Hates Brigade's Guts.

[Dignified Pauper]

I think that only Squall of Seed knows the answers to these worldly crisis.

[Raistlin]

A few years ago, I might have bothered to read this thread. But now I don't care nearly enough.

I think Jenova really did set things in motion. I don't think she used mind control on Sephiroth - I think she merely manipulated him to doing her bidding. This helps explains things that Sephiroth said: he went from misinterpreting Hojo's notes so he thought he was simply created from Jenova cells to calling Jenova "mother" and believing she was a true Cetra that all the betrayers were working to destroy. Jenova has a history of being manipulative to get her way, such as with the original story of her killing off most of the Cetra. Otherwise, how Sephiroth came to this conclusion can only be explained by "eh, he made it all up himself." I think it's probably reasonable that Jenova worked to help Sephiroth go insane, but of course I don't know for sure. What I do strongly believe is that Jenova told Sephiroth lies and nudged him along. I don't think Sephiroth was being directly controlled - I think he acted on his own at times - but I do believe that he was following Jenova's orders in the grand scheme of things.

An argument I used to hear a lot is "well, if Jenova was in control, why did Sephiroth still fight you after Jenova was killed?" Because Sephiroth was insane and Jenova wasn't controlling him in such a strict sense but was simply manipulating him, possibly influencing him a bit with more direct control, but it's impossible to know exactly how much.

[Madonna]

Without Future Esthar's input here, I feel as if any theory drawn up and reasoned out is severely hampered without his mental energies and that we'd miss out on the truth in our sifting through the myriad of possibilites of Sephiroth's true motivation. It truly be because Jenova drove him over the edge, making him snap and become a fixated lunatic. It could be because Jenova actually attached a brainsucker (a sucker that sucks brains) to his head and not only removed his brain (brainsuckers eat brains and pass on the nutrients to its host (in this case being Jenova)), but also replaced it with what may be called a Jenova-chip implant, which actually caused Sephiroth to become nothing more than a puppet of Jenova. Or it could be because Sephiroth was just plain wrong in his own conclusions and screwed everything up on an, "Oops, my bad."

[-N-]

Good idea. I'll PM Future Esthar about this.

[nik0tine]

Yeah, that usually happens in threads like these. I'm calling in the brigade now.

Does this mean I am part of the 'brigade'?

Oh yeah, wtf you jackass?

[-N-]

Where'd you get that quote from? You're no better than Crash, changing around my words and all! *low blow... bam*

[nik0tine]

wtf? you backstabbing jackass!

[-N-]

Replace this text with that image of the ugly chin person and that is my response.