Something I recently noticed about Clouds geostigma

[Ishin Ookami]

Okay, Im pretty much a hater of the film, I thought it sucked and was terrible, and see my posts in the pinned thread "Thoughts on AC" as to why, lets not get into that here. But I just recently noticed something that also doesn't seem to make much sense, at least less sense then the film tends not to make. So I thought I would see if I'm missing something important to the story, or did the scriptwriter just really have a bad day when he penned this script.

Okay, so here are the facts. Cloud is a genetically bio-engineered soldier who used to be pathetically weak, but due to the infusion of genova genetic materials and Mako energy, he is super powerful right?

More facts. Geostigma is a particularly lame ailment that is supposedly fatal that if from the planet, afflicting those who are carriers of Jenova's genetic material right?

alright, here's my question. So if Aerieth helps cure the geostigma by wiping out all jenova cells in a persons body with the water from the church, if cloud no longer has any Jenova material stengthening him, why is he so much stronger AFTER the Jenova cells are gone? I understand the Mako energy would still make him stronger then the average person, but the thing with cloud was that it was the Jenova cells working along side the mako energy making him as strong as he was. Without the Jenova cells, what sense does it make for him to be even stronger?

So did I miss something in this analysis? any thoughts or feedback?

[Amaru]

Cloud is still enhanced through Mako showering. And if you watch the final scene, when Sephiroth is just about to finish Cloud, you'll quite clearly see and understand where Cloud drew his final strength from.

Not to mention, Sephiroth wasn't even at full strength...

[blackmage_nuke]

Maybe he just trains alot, he does kill about 200 monsters in a day

[Christmas]

Cloud is already very strong even without any enhancement. Notice in FF VII where they show the flashback of the Nibel incident where Cloud threw Sephiroth into the chasm despite being stabbed by him.

Sephiroth plunges his sword into Cloud’s right chest.

Sephiroth: Don't... push... your luck...

Cloud pulls out Sephiroth sword from his wound and throws him into the chasm.

Sephiroth: ...It can't be!

[Ishin Ookami]

Cloud is already very strong even without any enhancement. Notice in FF VII where they show the flashback of the Nibel incident where Cloud threw Sephiroth into the chasm despite being stabbed by him.

Sephiroth plunges his sword into Cloud’s right chest.

Sephiroth: Don't... push... your luck...

Cloud pulls out Sephiroth sword from his wound and throws him into the chasm.

Sephiroth: ...It can't be!

Clouds sudden burst of strength can most likely be attributed to a sudden surge of adrenaline, not uncommon to those in extreme, life threatening situations, coupled with a healthy dose of plot contrivance. I mean he wasn't even strong enough to rate anything more then a "rent-a-cop" class soldier, yet he can defeat sephiroth? I never liked that plot twist due to just HOW contrived it really is. even with the adrenaline factor.

And also note that the question was, why is he stronger AFTER the jenova cells are gone? On a technical level he should have been weaker due to the fact he has lost some of his super-soldier genetics.

[Amaru]

Cloud is already very strong even without any enhancement. Notice in FF VII where they show the flashback of the Nibel incident where Cloud threw Sephiroth into the chasm despite being stabbed by him.

Sephiroth plunges his sword into Cloud’s right chest.

Sephiroth: Don't... push... your luck...

Cloud pulls out Sephiroth sword from his wound and throws him into the chasm.

Sephiroth: ...It can't be!

Clouds sudden burst of strength can most likely be attributed to a sudden surge of adrenaline, not uncommon to those in extreme, life threatening situations, coupled with a healthy dose of plot contrivance. I mean he wasn't even strong enough to rate anything more then a "rent-a-cop" class soldier, yet he can defeat sephiroth? I never liked that plot twist due to just HOW contrived it really is. even with the adrenaline factor.

And also note that the question was, why is he stronger AFTER the jenova cells are gone? On a technical level he should have been weaker due to the fact he has lost some of his super-soldier genetics.

Someone who is 'technically stronger' on the scorecard, doesn't always win the match. Such is life, circumstances, and situations. Plot contrivance my foot.

[Ryushikaze]

The Jenova cells have little to do with Cloud being superhuman. He was rejected from SOLDIER because he was mentally weak (thus unable to withstand Mako showering), not physically weak (Before Crisis has a couple scenes where he, as a grunt, grabs a buster sword off a dead unit and begins to own with it. This is well before Nibleheim).

[Arrianna]

So if Aerieth helps cure the geostigma by wiping out all jenova cells in a persons body with the water from the church, if cloud no longer has any Jenova material stengthening him, why is he so much stronger AFTER the Jenova cells are gone?

If you were dying and believed that you couldn't help anyone and then you not only changed your mind but became perfectly healthy wouldn't you be stronger as well?

[Ishin Ookami]

The Jenova cells have little to do with Cloud being superhuman. He was rejected from SOLDIER because he was mentally weak (thus unable to withstand Mako showering), not physically weak (Before Crisis has a couple scenes where he, as a grunt, grabs a buster sword off a dead unit and begins to own with it. This is well before Nibleheim).

The Jenova cells would have definitely made him stronger, and he should have been physically weaker. Mental strength can only call upon the various resources the human body has to offer. So If cloud is struggling against the jenova spawns when he had the jenova cells, shouldn't the absence of any jenova cells in his being have made him physically weaker?

It's still a wank film. cloud gets stabbed in his sword arm and busts out his ultimate attack. Cloud gets shot in the head but is saved by his stylish shades. Cloud gets depressed and resolves his serious issues in five seconds. But this just strikes me that the script writer spent even less time working on plot coherency.

[Amaru]

So If cloud is struggling against the jenova spawns when he had the jenova cells, shouldn't the absence of any jenova cells in his being have made him physically weaker?

The Jenova Cells in Cloud's body were what was causing the illness, making him weak, and slowly killing him as his own body tries in vein to fight it off. With his body rid of the Jenova Cells, he is no longer ill, and regains his strength.

So no, the absense made him stronger, not weaker.

[blackmage_nuke]

cloud gets stabbed in his sword arm and busts out his ultimate attack

Well obviouly he took a beating raising his Limit Break so that he could use his ultimate attack.

[Ishin Ookami]

So If cloud is struggling against the jenova spawns when he had the jenova cells, shouldn't the absence of any jenova cells in his being have made him physically weaker?

The Jenova Cells in Cloud's body were what was causing the illness, making him weak, and slowly killing him as his own body tries in vein to fight it off. With his body rid of the Jenova Cells, he is no longer ill, and regains his strength.

So no, the absense made him stronger, not weaker.

Actally, it was the planet seeking to wipe out all of Jenova's genetic remnants that was causing geostigma, as you see in the game and movie, it was Jenova's genetic legacy that gave him his improved strength and allowed him to be physically as powerful as Sephiroth.

Nice try though

And blackmage Nuke, I just assume you were trying to be funny.

[LunarWeaver]

Hmm...But Jenova or the Planet isn't causing the disease. Vincent says Geostigma is caused because the body has a personal current "like the lifestream" that fights off "intruders". So the body think it's helping you but is over-compensating and hurting you instead... So Aeris would just need to re-work his body's immune system so it didn't suck anymore, then heal the damage already done, not necessarily get rid of the cells themselves. Aeris's sexy allows her to do such things.

[Ishin Ookami]

Hmm...But Jenova or the Planet isn't causing the disease. Vincent says Geostigma is caused because the body has a personal current "like the lifestream" that fights off "intruders". So the body think it's helping you but is over-compensating and hurting you instead... So Aeris would just need to re-work his body's immune system so it didn't suck anymore, then heal the damage already done, not necessarily get rid of the cells themselves. Aeris's sexy allows her to do such things.

Nope, note how the rain was burning Kadaj as well as Loz and Yazoo, the rain was killing off all Jenova cells. Which is why clouds geostigma was cured by the water, because the Jenova cells were eliminated from his system. Thus, he really should have been physically weaker by a considerable margin.

Also, I was under the impression the lifestream was acting through the portion that is inside the human body to eliminate all Jenova cells, the Term "Geostigma" would further this. This is also furthered by Aeries using her "Great Gospel" ability to wipe out the Jenova Cells. Even though it's pretty stupid having a dead girl save the day multiple times, but I digress.

[LunarWeaver]

It doesn't say anywhere that Aeris destroys the cells in his body. Vincent clearly says the body's immune system is the cause of Geostigma, he even says "The body over-compensates", straight up quote...It has nothing to do with the lifestream or Jenova at all, so nothing indicates she gets rid of Jenova's cells in anybody.

The remnants might burn because they are a sign of "ebil" and Aeris is a sign of "goodz".Final Fantasy is 80% symbols, which works out for everybody because if you hate it, you can find everything wrong with it, and if you like you can find everything right with it. Or they might react badly to Aeris's power because she isn't trying to help them. If Aeris can whip out the entire lifestream and stop a gigantic meteor summoned by a black magical marble, one would think she is capable of choosing to burn cells or make the body accept them.

Does she destroy his cells? I don't know. But you don't know either. It doesn't say one or way another that's the way the magical healing water cures everybody. For all we know, Geostigma's cure is as simple as tricking your white cells into thinking it needs Jenova's cells instead of destroying them, or the cure could be rubbing your ass 4 times and saying "Giraffe", because the disease isn't real.