Wah Wah Wah
:laugh:
Wah Wah Wah
:laugh:
I'll quote myself again.Originally Posted by DeathKnight
AhahaWah Wah Wah
:laugh:
SEXY McAWESOME TO YOU, MISTER
I'm sure you'd feel the same way if your team just got screwed from a lead in the NBA Finals, with the ONLY blame to go on the officiating, and that's being entirely objective.Wah Wah Wah
:laugh:
In fact, looking at the replay closely, the whole interpretation of having established position in the backcourt is completely nil.
The replay shows that he has a foot on the ground when he catches the ball... in the frontcourt. He then proceeds to continue into the backcourt.
Sorry, but a high school ref would have called that one. The ref was standing three feet away.
But, I suppose, crowning an "Air Apparent" is more important to the NBA than actually crowning a proper champion.
Today really blows. The Mavs WON that game.
Sorry, but the Heat deserved to lose, Mavs deserved to win. The refs alone decided this game. I expect some serious makeup in game 6, and wouldn't be surprised at all if the rigged NBA gave it to us. At any rate, the Heat can't win in Dallas.
I could understand mocking my whining if I was simply being a homer, but there is no room for subjectivity on this subject. The refs had to blow 3 calls in the final 10 freakin' seconds for the Heat to win.
Last edited by Kirobaito; 06-19-2006 at 05:17 PM.
The game should have never gone into overtime then and Heat would have won in regulation. Did you forget that blocking foul that was called on Posey when it was obviously a charging foul? I rest my case that it would have never gone into over time with out those 2 foul shots that Mavs should not have gotten.
It goes both ways and the officiating in NBA games is terrible in general. Look for even more fines to be given against the Mavs...mainly the owner. He has already racked up $200,000 in fines in the post season alone.
I understand that bad calls happen over the course of the game. Ignore the overWHELMING free throw advantage that the Heat had throughout the game (36-9 after three quarters), and the shoddy reffing throughout. Ignore the fact that Wade attempted as many FTs as the entire Mavs team, and that there were many instances were he simply launched up horrific shots and the refs bailed him out, despite little or no contact. That was a consistent storyline throughout the game, and it's been that way throughout the playoffs.
But a precedent was established the refs let the players play during final possessions. The refs are not supposed to decide games. It's one thing to ref poorly throughout a game, but NBA history has shown that the players are supposed to decide things in the end. Not the refs.
This was broken, just because of drama queen Wade. Every single rule, Wade is made an exception for.
The refs are supposed to swallow their whistles at the ends of games. I'm not really pushing it, but Dirk got fouled on his final shot. They showed a replay, and he got hit on the wrist. Shoulda been an And-One. No one talks about that, though, do they?
But I understand that that won't be called, because the refs swallow their whistles at the ends of games.
Why is Wade made the exception for, particularly on a play where a foul was questionable at best, and earlier in the possession he committed an obvious stiff-arm of Terry, knocking him into the scorer's table? I didn't push that a lot, because I knew that the refs wouldn't call it, because THEY LET THE PLAYERS PLAY AT THE ENDS OF GAMES.
That's my beef. Wade is always made the exception for, because the NBA wants him to be the heir to Jordan.
This isn't even including the obviously vendetta-powered suspension of Stackhouse for no good reason. And the fact that Heat players have gotten away with a dozen elbows over the course of this series, and Pat Riley himself has stated that "there is no accidental elbow." There's something very sinister going on with the NBA. There's no consistency at all. And the Mavericks are always on the short end of that inconsistency, aren't they?
The Mavs will get fined, and they should be. Because they should be pissed. Because they got robbed.
Just in case we forgot from last year...<a href="http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=64036">I am no fan of NBA officiating.</a>
I really only bring it up because your comments on Wade mirror your comments in that thread about stars getting prefferenctial treatment. I think another good example of that was Wallace. Before he went to Detroit he was ALWAYS in foul trouble and got that rep. With that rep the officals looked at him more closely than other and called fouls that normally would not have been called for the average player.
I will say one thing about the free throw difference last night. At least 10 intentional fouls on O'Neal to send him to the line or prevent him from even starting a shot. That got them into foul trouble and then when a foul came the Heat's way they went to the line even if it wasn't a shooting foul. It wasn't a bad strat but it did hurt them. You take away those 10-15 intentional fouls and the mavs end up with about the same # of fouls as the Heat.
Interesting stat also. Shaq is #3 for most free throws made in a Finals game with 18 made. He did it in 2000 with the Lakers. I don't know how many attempts he had that night but it must have been something like 26 or more. Even shooting at his best he is around 70% from the line.
Holy <img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif">.
39.
Yes, 39.
http://espn.go.com/nba/2000/20000609...re/indlal.html
Unless that's a typo.
EDIT: Don't want to agree with me, listen to NBA official Mike Mathis.
Per ESPN radio, the foul on Wade was "an absolutely terrible call." Says Wade was out of control and thus contact was made. Says the officials basically blew the call, and he would have never blown his whistle. On plays that decide games, says NBA officials know the foul must be clear and indisputable, for this very reason, all the discussion today.
Also, says every official on that court knew AJ wanted a TO after the second free throw, regardless of JHo's actions, and this should have been an easy issue to clear up with a simple referee conference.
Last edited by Kirobaito; 06-20-2006 at 12:02 AM.
I never disputed that those were bad calls. I would need to see the video from a different angle of Wade going in because from that video you showed it looked like whats his face was back peddling to fast and lost control. Wade and his back court violation....when does he have 'possesion'. The second he touch the ball? Or when he firmly grabs it with both hands. That video is too grainy for me to tell and You Tube sucks in general for viewing videos.
The foul call for Wade was a ticky-tack foul and I don't like that. The Time Out call was bull<img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif">. But why am I going to complain. I don't want the mavs to win.
Here is another interesting...thing. Mark Cuban has appearantly been fined of $200,000 in the post season alone.
Also depending on how the whole team reacted during the press confrence towards the officiating they could be screwed in game six. Officials in the NBA have a habbit of making an example of a team when they cry foul as a team...even more so if the coach is agreeing and talking about bad officiating. I know Cuban is going nuts and I know the mavs are pissed but I hope they kept their cool and responded to the bad calls in the manner of 'It didn't go our way and hopefully they will in games 6 and 7' and not piss off the people who will be making the calls in game 6 and 7.
He's been fined over a million since he came here in 2000. His $200,000 fine came from a post on his <a href="www.blogmaverick.com">blog</a>, if I recall, and it was pretty weak. He posted a table of the Mavs record with each official doing a playoff game, and pointing out that the Mavs were 0-10 with Dan Crawford officiating. I think it's since 1-11 or something. They won game 6 in Phoenix with him officiating.
Lucky us, Crawford will be doing Game 6 in this series.
Isn't this what NBA playoffs come down to every time? <img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif"><img src="/xxx.gif">ty referees?
Yes!
Anyways game 6 tonight and the pressure is on both teams to win.
Maimi has a 3 game streak going into game 6 and the pressure is on them to win tonight as only 1 team has won a game 7 away since the 2-3-2 format.
Mavs must win to stay alive. They have a great home record and Maimi has lost the past 6 games they have played in Dallas.
This should hopefully turn out to be a great game.
The officials understand that they badly screwed the Mavs last game, and I expect the Mavs to get every call tonight. It's the least they could do.
And honestly, Cuban is the best owner in the NBA. Those who complain about him are just pissed because their team's owner isn't the same way. He's giving away 500 tickets to game 7 (he would give away all 1400, but the NBA wouldn't let him). How cool is that?
Bill Simmons' article:
Speaking of the refs, Game 5 of the Finals took its rightful place alongside Game 7 of the Seattle-Phoenix series in 1993, Game 6 of the Kings-Lakers series in 2002, Game 5 of the Knicks-Celtics series in 1973 and some of the other famous entries in the Pantheon of One-Sided Officiated Games. We're running some e-mails in a sidebar (look to the right), but you know it's bad when the owner of the losing team runs out onto the floor to stare down the commissioner after the game -- the last time that happened at a sporting event, Vince McMahon was involved.
(FYI: In today's Miami Herald, Greg Cote writes that Cuban was screaming profanely at referee Joe DeRosa right after the game, "then turned to Stern and other NBA officials who were seated at the scorer's table and was overheard to shout venomously in the jubilant din, '[Bleep] you! [Bleep] you! Your league is rigged!'" Remember when I wrote that, on a scale of 1-to-10 about being excited for the moment when Stern handed Cuban the trophy, I was a 35? Now I'm a 72. Although Cuban did deny saying this on his blog.)
I tackled this in a Cowbell blog last year, but it's worth rehashing again: The NBA doesn't fix games. That's impossible. And stupid. It could never happen. (Well, except for the Hubert Davis game -- that was fixed. Just kidding. Kind of.) A few months ago, I looked David Stern in the eye and asked him about the ongoing officiating problems, and he seemed agonized enough about it that I actually believed him. Unless he was pulling a DeNiro-level acting performance on me. Which I doubt. But there are three major problems here.
First, Dwyane Wade shot as many free throws (25) as the entire Dallas team in Game 5. I just don't see how there's any way this can happen in a fairly-called game. It's theoretically impossible.
Second, everyone knew the officiating would be a problem heading into this series because of Cuban's past problems with the league. In my Finals preview, I wrote that "No team depends on the refs quite like the Heat. When the refs are calling all the bumps on Shaq and protecting Wade on every drive, they're unstoppable. When they're calling everything fairly, they're eminently beatable. If they're not getting any calls, they're just about hopeless. I could see the refs swinging two games in Miami's favor during this series, possibly three. In fact, I'm already depressed about it and the series hasn't even started yet." Well, we had our two games -- Game 3 (the last five minutes were just obscene) and Game 5 (again, a top-five debacle). And the series isn't over yet.
Third, here's a theory on referees that I described in a blog last spring:
"I don't think the NBA fixes games, but they have one trick that they use for situations like this -- when they want a home team to win the game, they invariably assign the worst referees possible to that game for two reasons: Bad referees have a tendency to get swayed by the home crowd, and bad referees never have the stones to make a tough call on the road. In a related story, I went to 35 Clippers games this year and kept a list of the referees in my pocket which I also used to follow the referees for any televised games. And yes, the referees in the NBA -- as a whole -- have never been worse. But there were six referees that stuck out as being especially terrible."
Then I went on to list the worst six referees. Here was No. 2 on the list:
"2. Bennett Salvatore -- Always one of the worst, he took it to another level this season. If you see him on the court at the start of the game, get ready for about six technicals, two near-brawls and both coaches having to be restrained by their assistants at various times."
Why is this relevant? Not only did Salvatore officiate Game 4 of the Suns-Lakers series (the one where Kobe tied it at the end of regulation and won it at the end of OT on two shaky non-calls on Nash, both by Salvatore), not only did Salvatore officiate Sunday night's Game 5 (in which Miami had a 40-12 free-throw advantage at one point), but Salvatore called the foul on Wade's final drive in overtime (remember, the call where ABC couldn't find a replay to show that anyone touched him?) even though he was standing at midcourt a full 35-40 feet from the play, and even though two other refs were closer to the play. Not only was that NOT his call, he butchered it.
Considering I brought this up LAST spring, do you find any of this a little strange? Why aren't the best referees calling these games? Why do the worst ones always seem to get assigned to games in which it would be better for the league if the home team won? Why am I the only one who notices this stuff or seems to care? Why do I find myself watching these games and concentrating more on the one-sided officiating than some of Wade's spectacular plays? As my buddy House e-mailed on Monday morning: "I don't think I can take much more of NBA refs insisting on controlling the outcomes of the most significant games. The NBA is a disgrace and should be completely embarrassed. I hate this game."
And that's coming from one of the last 19 NBA diehards -- I can only imagine what the casual fans thought after watching such a one-sided travesty. Look, we all love Dwyane Wade. He's fantastic. But there's absolutely no scenario in which a 2-guard should be attempting as many free throws as everyone on the other team. It's absolutely unfathomable. And here's what really kills me: If there's a Game 7, you KNOW they'll come up with the best possible officials for that particular game. So why wouldn't every Finals game work like that? We have seven possible games spread over 17 days ... they couldn't pick the best three or four refs and have them work every game, like how MLB picks the best seven umps to comprise the World Series crew? Why wouldn't that work? Is there a single reason you can come up with? Arrrrrrrrgh.
Here are the e-mails he referenced above (to the right):
Note: I'm not saying I agree with these perspectives ... but here's a very fair sampling of the e-mails that drifted into my mailbox on Sunday night and Monday morning.
I do solemnly swear, this 19th day of June, 2006 that I will never watch an NBA game again. Everyone is supposed to say what a great game that was with a straight face? At least the WWE has the grace to give you a wink. If watching a man in a flak jacket and thigh pads repeatedly throw himself into defenders to draw foul calls is what passes for "competition," or better yet watching said man hit layups because no one can breathe on him, I believe I can live without [it]. Why would anyone follow a "sport" that employs **** Bavetta and Stu Jackson? All that was missing was David Stern running onto the court with a steel chair, ABC execs in tow. Bill Simmons, I name thee prophet. It went down exactly as you said it would.
-- James, Richmond, Virginia
Twenty-five free-throw attempts is nonsense, not even MJ would have gotten some of those foul calls. And I'm not just saying this because I'm a bitter Pistons fan. Sixty-year-old officials should not be officiating 20-something-year-old professional athletes.
-- Paul, Detroit, Mich.
Have you ever, I mean EVER, seen a guy get more calls than Wade in Game 5? As staggering as it is to even think it, much less say it out loud, this surpasses the level of calls Jordan used to get in the playoffs. Simply AMAZING. I am a die-hard NBA fan, and I understand and accept the whole "stars get calls" factor, but this is an insane new level. Every time Wade falls down (even if not touched) he gets a call. You called it in your preview, the refs were gonna give some games to Miami, and they did.
-- Jonathan, Raleigh, N.C.
Please admit to everyone that the treatment Dwyane Wade is receiving is absolutely absurd. The final play in Game 5 summed it up: He commits a backcourt violation, pushes off on Terry, then goes wildly to the bucket and gets bailed out on a phantom foul call. Is what the NBA has to do to create its star of the future?
-- Mark, Chicago
I watch very little NBA basketball; however, as the playoffs have been playing out, I have found myself watching more and more games, becoming more interested. Then comes the Finals and I feel like I am watching pro wrestling, except I can fool myself into thinking those matches aren't fixed. At least it makes the NBA the easiest sport to gamble on.
-- Jeremy Louden, Cincinnati
I want to say something about Dwayne Wade, but I fear I may get called for a foul.
-- Warren, Ludington, Mich.
Unfortunately you were right that the NBA finals could come down to the officials. David Stern would rather choke to death on his own vomit than hand Mark Cuban the trophy. It's clear he instructed the refs to take an active interest in the outcomes of the games. Every time Wade drives the lane the refs call a foul on whoever is closest.
-- Jeff, Baltimore
After witnessing the Game 5 debacle, I am absolutely convinced that Stern is trying to fix the Finals for D-Wade and the Heat. Stackhouse's suspension, Dirk's phantom foul in OT, and then Joey Crawford's inexplicable call for a Mavs timeout -- it all adds up too perfectly. This could be a conspiracy as far-reaching as Watergate. I can already imagine the inevitable ESPN movie, "All The Commissioner's Men," where a stubborn, upstart young sports columnist brings down Stern and the entire NBA hierarchy. So, Simmons, the only question is: Will you be our Bob Woodward?
-- Robert P., Topeka, Kan.
All the comparisons between Wade and Jordan need to stop right now. There's no way Jordan would have gotten that call in the final seconds of Game 5.
-- Chris Richardson, Charleston, W.V.
Stack suspension:
Back to Stackhouse's "hard" foul: I watched all of Game 4, as well as SportsCenter after the game, and not a single announcer wondered whether Stack was retaliating for Shaq's three-stitch elbow in Game 1. For God's sake, do you know anything about Jerry Stackhouse? He's one of the toughest dudes in the league -- if you made a list of "Players whose sister you wouldn't want to accidentally sleep with," he'd be right up there. When that Shaq elbow happened and Stackhouse was nodding angrily afterward -- like, "OK, so that's how we're playing, gotcha" -- I specifically remember thinking to myself, "I can't wait for the moment when Stack tries to get him back."
So when he cracked him in Game 4, that was my first reaction: "There it was! I knew it!" But it was a totally legal foul, and only the replay betrayed him -- in slow-motion from one angle, you could see Stack sizing Shaq up for a brief second, much like the Posey-Hinrich incident in Round 1, and that's what ended up getting him suspended. And here's where the NBA has lost its grip a little bit. Shaq was running loose toward the basket for a free dunk and probably outweighs Stackhouse by 125 pounds. If Stackhouse did anything BUT foul Shaq as hard as he could, he would have bounced off Shaq like a 5-foot-10 cornerback bouncing off Antonio Gates, Shaq would have made the layup for a potential three-point play, and Hubie Brown would have told us, "See, now, when you are fouling in that situation ... you cannot ... give up ... the three-point play." Basically, Stackhouse was screwed either way.
So here's my question: At what point are we compromising the competitiveness of these games? If you've ever played basketball, then you know that s---, um, staff happens during a competitive game. It's not abnormal for two teammates to start screaming at one another. It's not abnormal for someone to foul someone else a little bit harder than he intended. It's not abnormal for two opponents to start exchanging some good-natured barbs -- if anything, that kind of dialogue always livens up the game and gets everyone else going.
Believe me, I understand why we reached this point -- in the late-'90s, an entire generation of players weaned on hard fouls (like the McHale-Rambis clothesline), trash-talking superstars (like Bird and MJ) and constant woofing (from the Fab Five and UNLV in particular) ended up taking all three of those elements to inappropriate levels. I concede this point. But haven't we swung too much the other way now? For instance, when LeBron psyched out Gilbert Arenas at the free-throw line in the final game of the Cavs-Wiz series, that was one of my favorite moments of the playoffs -- not only that LeBron had the confidence to do something like that, but that it reminded me of something that would happen on the playground, just two ballers talking smack before a big moment.
Of course, the NBA decided that this was deplorable and ordered their referees to prevent this from ever happening again. (God forbid the last two minutes of an NBA game was anything other than formulaic and predictable.) But I think this is one of the reasons why I enjoy watching those games from the '80s so much -- not just because of the style of play (constantly moving, constantly going) but the competitive energy that never seemed to wane. Now guys are allowed to compete, but only to a point. It's like a glorified youth soccer game with more fans. And out of everything that's happened in the Stern Era, this was their biggest mistake. Well, other than continuing to have Bennett Salvatore work playoff games.
Last edited by Kirobaito; 06-20-2006 at 07:49 PM.
I like Mark Cuban. I think he a great guy and would prefer that he was the commish. I never cared for Stern and I feel he only does things when they get to their worst(see the dress code this year). As an owner Cuban could do a bit more to help his team...even more so in the finals. I expect the player to be mad and the coach to be flustered but the owner should show a bit more control and talk about how he is going to talk to the commish to see how they can solve the problem.
He means well and I love his passion but I think he lets it get the better of him a bit too much.
One thing you have to remember is that he was a season ticket holder for the Mavericks before he bought them. He was a big-time fan, even when they were the worst franchise in sports. I would probably let my passion get the better of me if my team got screwed after finally making it here.
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