Rinoa IS You Know Who!! Stop denying it!!!!!!! (Spoilers)

[daggertrepe]

Exactly. This whole conversation was pointless, stupid ramblings. I hope someone closes this.

[eragon1]

I agree.Someone should close this.The idea is to enjoy the game not argue over it.

[Ryushikaze]

I say we follow Ryukishi's ultimatum and give Lychon one final attempt to show any sort of evidence or reasoning, and when that falls through, slam the lock.

[atlanteay]

it's taking Lychon a long time to prove that R=U is true. :rolleyes2 I would personally like to see his proof because i believe this theory and i would like to know even more proof to this theory to prove that i'm not nuts and that i believe in a rather good theory.

[Jojee]

Yes, Rinoa is Voldemort

[~SapphireStar~]

it's taking Lychon a long time to prove that R=U is true.

Shes been offline since yesturday, so how can she go out and get you the proof. Just wait for her to come back online ok? Theres no point asking for proof when shes not here.

[atlanteay]

I didn't mean right now geez! don't have to get all mad. I meant in all four pages of posts, he didn't do anything but argue with people when he could've presented his proof and have everyone be impressed. What's with that? Now his thread is on the edge of getting closed because he just won't get to the point.

[Jimmy Dark Aeons Slayer]

Lychon is a guy not a girl.

[Xurts]

Here's a simple questionWhy argue over something like this?Rinoa won't be ultimecia anyways because in the game you kill her.If you kill ultimecia then that means Rinoa should have died also.therefore they aren't the same.Anyways you kill Utimecia so it doesn't really matter right?If Rinoa does happen to be Ultimecia it won't happen with Squall around and i think in the game they would have brought something this important to our attention.

Actually it would be theoretically possible to kill your future self and still exist. It's also possible to kill yourself in the past and still exist in the present/future. But in this case, Rinoa and Ultimecia are not the same person, so all of that doesn't matter.

I like what rubah said. When you go to fight Ultimecia in the future, you would think that she would recognize HERSELF from the past.

[Captain Maxx Power]

I'll be honest, I've scanned past everything said so far in the hope that Future Esthar would have posted something. Sadly, he hasn't

[atlanteay]

didn't the original theory say that since squall died, Rinoa is filled with hatred and sorrow and that she forgets many things and goes mad trying to take over the world and etc... and became Ultimecia?

[eragon1]

if Rinoa really was Ultimecia wouldn't Doc Odine know.remember he was the one who found out about Ultimecia.if Squall went through time transformation shouldn't they have battled Rinoa along with the other Sorceresses.Then again..

Ultimecia had the GF griever.Ultimecia could have made Griever come to life from the ring squall gave Rinoa with her magical powers,Does anyone understand me because I'm starting to confuse myself?

[~SapphireStar~]

I didn't mean right now geez! don't have to get all mad.

Oh my god, in what way was I being mad. I was jsut saying to wait for them to log back on and see if they can provide any more proof to the theory.

didn't the original theory say that since squall died, Rinoa is filled with hatred and sorrow and that she forgets many things and goes mad trying to take over the world and etc... and became Ultimecia?

Yeah Ive read that before somewhere. She also hates SeeD. Where was it? Cant remember, but I agreed with it.

[Lychon]

it's taking Lychon a long time to prove that R=U is true. :rolleyes2 I would personally like to see his proof because i believe this theory and i would like to know even more proof to this theory to prove that i'm not nuts and that i believe in a rather good theory.

First, I want to reiterate what I have already stated many times: I am not out to prove that the R=U theory is true. I am out to prove that that theory is possible and more plausible than your average imaginary figment. The theory may very well be false, but I believe that I have proved its plausibility and possibility in my very first post. In this post, per the request of Kawaii Ryûkishi, I will elaborate upon and simplify the first post in this thread. But please do not confuse “possible” with “definite.”

Okay, you want something to act against your theory? There are a few lines in the game that can supply that, such as when the party is told that Ultimecia exists far in the future--so far that none of them could exist there. Now, sure, it's /possible/ that through some ridiculous gymnastics of logic, Rinoa can magically become Ultimecia, just like it's /possible/ that Quistis secretly has a twin sister who works for a secret project among scientists in Centra. However, it's not really plausible. You'd have to make up a lot of things to even make it possible in the first place, and even then, there's no reason to accept it as a common theory; it's out of sync with the game, and there's more evidence against it (the above line, the fact that Sorceresses have normal life spans) than not. Saying it's 'not possible' is the same as saying that the idea that there's some huge conspiracy controlling tea is 'not possible'--it's an overstatement, but it might as well be the truth.

A good theory tends to work /with/ canon, not against it. It could be done, maybe--but personally, I tend to find that it's nothing but an angst-trip that takes away from the game. I don't find it to be a /good/ idea, so I have no intention of 'bowing down'--not when there's so much in /canon/ to work with.

Anyone can concoct whimsical suppositions such as Quistis having a twin sister and claim that they are “possible.” I have not stretched the use of logic or reason by supplying proof of the plausibility and possibility of the R=U theory. On the contrary, the theory has been substantiated by the simple, step-by-step dialectics evident in my first post. Nothing has to be made up for the possibility and plausibility of Rinoa reaching Ultimecia’s time period alive. Since you probably did not read my first post (and even if you did, you did not understand it), I will now furnish a detailed explanation of it. The R=U theory does not take away anything from the game and it does not violate anything that has been established canonical. I find that the theory adds immensely to the plot of FFVIII, and it seems that you are attempting to fabricate false means of disproving the theory just because you cannot appreciate it. No one is stating that R=U is absolutely true. The theory has been proved plausible and possible and most definitely fits in with the game’s plot. It may very well be false, but it is definitely more plausible than some random figment such as the idea that Quistis has a twin sister.

I'll give you one post to explain whatever it is you're talking about here, using plain English and citing the game's text for support. If you are not able to do so, I will consider it true that your entire founding argument is a pile of crap and close this thread posthaste.

Simplification of POST # 1 in this thread: This is what my first post basically says: If Ultimecia had not interfered in Rinoa and Squall’s original time line, Rinoa may very well have been locked away in the Sorceress Memorial, only this time she is not rescued or freed by Squall or anyone else. Hundreds of years in the future, she is somehow released, and her original intention is to bring back the individuals she knew and loved in her original time. She realizes that she can only accomplish this through time manipulation. Her sadness turns to bitterness and eventually to a consuming hatred of the world that locked her away for centuries. Her sorceress powers and her undying hatred eventually eclipse her memories of her friends and her original time. She is consumed by her hatred and becomes only focused on her original goal of time manipulation so that she can enact vengeance upon the entire world. Time manipulation turns into the more specific time compression. At this point, Rinoa is no longer Rinoa. She becomes Ultimecia and completely loses her former identity and memory to her bitterness and hatred.

The reason I had to discuss the theoretical aspects of time compression in my first post was so I could validate it against a previous argument. In modern speculations and studies of temporal physics, it has been suggested that once an event has come to occur in a timeline, it cannot be changed even if someone travels to the past and alters the past. This is because time is supposedly qualified by infinitesimal “moment-to-moment” time; meaning that each successive moment is related to the “previous” but is thereafter forever independent. This suggests that even though Ultimecia influenced the past, it would not change the future one bit. However, when time compression is considered, all “moments” in time become one, and therefore lose there independence.

So, “in plain English,” what does this mean? It means that even though Rinoa may have eventually become Ultimecia in the future, she may now never realize this possibility because of Ultimecia’s interference in her timeline. Ultimecia died in the future, and due to time compression, she may never come about again. So if Rinoa was ever on a path to becoming Ultimecia, she may now face an entirely different future.

Done and done. R=U lives!! I believe that I have explained myself and this thread should be left open for further discussion because its purpose is just that: discussion. But you were right to say that I should have elaborated my grandiloquent first post.

Exactly. This whole conversation was pointless, stupid ramblings. I hope someone closes this.

If you do not want to be part of a thread or if you have nothing useful to contribute, then please do not waste my time and everyone else’s time by repeatedly asking for this thread to be closed. It is a legitimate topic that will be closed if the moderator’s deem it appropriate to do so.

-LYCHON

[Xurts]

didn't the original theory say that since squall died, Rinoa is filled with hatred and sorrow and that she forgets many things and goes mad trying to take over the world and etc... and became Ultimecia?

Yeah. Squall gets stuck in that timeless warp, and Rinoa gets POed and wants to compress time to bring him back. I find it unlikely that she would forget her reason for compressing time and what her past self was like.