PLD/RDM tanking

[Lionx]

THF? What THF? You didnt mention anything about THF. In that case why is the PLD losing hate? What kind of THF and PLD you have? You also dont have a few key pieces of gear, like High Breath Mantle which really helps and is reletively inexpensive. He seems way more geared for PLD/WAR imo.

Did your PLD use a combination of Flash and Blink? What KIND of enfeebles were you using? That says nothing if you just say enfeebles, he could be using poison of all things. Your PLD did not seem to Cover as well. I do not feel your PLD knew what he was doing and your description of events do not seem to be as detailed compared to the PLD i knew who did this. >_>;

Your mention of a THF also throws me off and makes me wonder...

[Yeargdribble]

I agree... a good THF would be SATAing. I don't think anyone should have trouble tanking after being SATA'd. Did your THF maybe SATA on you? lol

[Laguna]

As a paladin I only use warrior as my subjob. Having played red mage for 63 levels, I know it does indeed have some hate pulling potential. but as a paladin I know that provoke is an instant hate spike once every thirty seconds. Now in my mind, enfeebling that may not actually stick isnt as useful as a hate spike in terms of hate management.

Although I can only say that's how it works in my mind. I've yet to try pld/rdm, but I might well do. I'd like to see if it's effective in all exp situations, or if it's limited in it's use. I'd also like to see how well it fares in ballista >.>

[Lionx]

The thing is, to me, Provoke actually is a spike hate, which decreases over time quickly no matter what happens. Enfeebles, even when resisted, gets hate. A RDM/WAR used a combination of Provoke, Blind, Bind, Sleep, Dispel, and Curing, to tank. Somewhat similiar to NINs, however replace Provoke with Flash which is only slightly less hate than Provoke(however i am not sure if this is spike hate that decreases quickly or perpetual hate...i am tending to believe its perpetual going along lines of enfeebles) and thats fine imo.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/red...hlight=Tanking

^ RDM tanking

Late EDIT:

Edit: And please note, me and the BLM were the only DD's, if there was a WAR or RNG present i would have sat back and taken it easy.

It wouldnt have mattered, hate is dependant on a single person. It doesnt matter if the BLM got 1000 dmg and got that much hate and you did 900 or if you held back and did 100, the BLM will still get hate for that same 1000. Holding back means nothing on what party members you have outside your tank.

You can do 900 DMG, mob doesnt turn, RNG does the same 900, and WAR does 800 some dmg, guess what? It wont turn at all if it was that they were doing. It doesnt matter if there was a RNG or WAR at all, i dont know what you were going with that. Hell if there was a BLM in that party too, and it did 1000 dmg, and if that didnt turn, then it didnt turn. It does not matter if there was a RNG WAR DRK in the PT with that BLM doing those types of damage, if it doesnt turn for one of them, it wont turn for all provided theres no hidden +Enimity or extra hate gaining abilities.

[Darius]

Hmm...so basically, PAL/WAR in the majority of cases. I love using Provoke and I love having a high def as well. ProtectIII would always be on me no matter what, and everyone else too.

Id like to know though how the difference in damage is when comparing /WAR to /RDM? I decided to be a PAL over a DRG (ill eventually level my DRG but for now, PAL to 75). So hows the damage output of a PAL with /WAR compared to /RDM?

[No.78]

All I can say is, it's good to experiment sometimes.

[Lionx]

WAR sub provides no more def then RDM sub unless you count Defender at 50 which makes your damage really pathetic. Protect III is on you whenever you want because PLDs can learn that spell.

The damage you do per hit maybe wont be as high as PLD/RDM and you probably wont gain as much TP since you are always casting spells. However the damage you take is usually lower(less Curing = less downtime and = more exp), and when you DO use a Weapon Skill, provided that the weapon skill is elemental, it will do at least 100 more damage than without it.

In general the damage a PLD does is not that important as its usually low in the first place, its all about holding hate.

[Garland]

This is a pretty cool idea. I'd seen the Pld/Rdm used by a friend of mine. Phalanx and Stoneskin work wonders with a pld's already iron defense. There used to be debates on which sub paladin would use if they didn't need voke, and rdm and monk often topped the list. Many people's first inclination was something to the effect of "omg pld/nin would be the best tank ever" but then shield use, paladin's crappy evasion w/ utsusemi, etc got brought up and that sub gets dropped from the list. I think as a Taru paladin, Pld/Rdm might better play to our racial strengths - our enormous mp pool. I think the MP deficient races would be best served sticking with the /war standard. I have another friend, a taru pld, who subbed whm to some good effect. He was in a static so cookiecutter didn't apply to him. I don't know the details but I think the gist of the strategy was letting hate bounce for a bit and using curagas to get it back. I dunno, I'm probably explaining it all wrong, but the point is, cookie cutter subs are only cookie cutter because people don't want to risk learning something new. Cookie cutter protects the status quo.

[Lionx]

Actually as stated by the OP of that thread who was Elvaan, the MP you lose you gain back as long as you have Refresh. So therefore MP Max is generally a non-issue.

[Darius]

Well right on. Then I have an idea. PAL will be my main job and once I get it to about 70+ish, Ill go back and level RDM to 30+ish. Then DRG, SMN, etc. Until im bored with the game...