Final Fantasy VIII Mysteries

[Ryushikaze]

I 'proved' that Eden was a time machine a long time ago... There's no sense in me doing it again when the answer is right in front of you...

Bad PAK. Saying you did it, then proceeding to NOT give evidence, and then following it up with an implication that I am deficient? Bad Monkey. No Banana.

If there is such a thing as a JME, then Eden is the closest thing to it. Besides, no matter what I say, you'll just come up with something to dismiss it out of petty and spite... :laugh:

Appeal to smegging motive, PAK. And your logic does not follow. How is Eden the closest thing to JME, when no one has actually said what the machine looks like. Heck, it could even be Ulti's throne, or something as simple as a watch. There's no reason for it to be a giant spacebound GF.

If it was 'done to death' it wouldn't be a discussion to date, now would it?

Zombie movies are more than done to death and they still keep coming out. Just because something has been utterly exhausted does not mean it won't be trotted out occasionally for a flogging.

Face it... it's like the mystery of religion... Believe it or not, it's not going away... So if you're tired to death of the endless discussion... :laugh:

Yeah, religion IS a mystery. Why do so many people believe despite an overwhelming lack of evidence, results, or reason? And who ever said I was tired? Come on, bring on the sadistic treatment of a necrotic equine. I got my bat good and ready.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

I 'proved' that Eden was a time machine a long time ago... There's no sense in me doing it again when the answer is right in front of you...

Bad PAK. Saying you did it, then proceeding to NOT give evidence, and then following it up with an implication that I am deficient? Bad Monkey. No Banana.

If there is such a thing as a JME, then Eden is the closest thing to it. Besides, no matter what I say, you'll just come up with something to dismiss it out of petty and spite... :laugh:

Appeal to smegging motive, PAK. And your logic does not follow. How is Eden the closest thing to JME, when no one has actually said what the machine looks like. Heck, it could even be Ulti's throne, or something as simple as a watch. There's no reason for it to be a giant spacebound GF.

If it was 'done to death' it wouldn't be a discussion to date, now would it?

Zombie movies are more than done to death and they still keep coming out. Just because something has been utterly exhausted does not mean it won't be trotted out occasionally for a flogging.

Face it... it's like the mystery of religion... Believe it or not, it's not going away... So if you're tired to death of the endless discussion... :laugh:

Yeah, religion IS a mystery. Why do so many people believe despite an overwhelming lack of evidence, results, or reason? And who ever said I was tired? Come on, bring on the sadistic treatment of a necrotic equine. I got my bat good and ready.

First off, don't you EVER call me a fuggin' "Monkey" again. That's an uncalled for unprovoked derogatory statement. What is your fuggin' problem man? I haven't insulted you and done anything to deserve this. I don't care how 'annoying' I am to you, but I don't deserve that. And it seems that no matter what I say, it annoys you.


It makes it pointless for me post anything because all you're going to do is spin whatever I say into making me look like a 'monkey'. Why do you think I've been writing in in-direct statements like this? I've just been engaging reaction after reaction after reaction. And all of them have been what; negative. You can't even answer a simple question when I post it. And I know why...

Because you can't... Or... Look, just stop it with the insults and start making your own original posts instead of just spinning on what people say simply because you don't agree with it.

Now, as I said years ago, when people were getting into flame wars about what "Eden" was. I said that Eden was a "Time Machine". It made perfect sense to me. Everyone else thinks it's a "Garden". I thought otherwise so that made me a 'idiot'. So let's see what I see... Take a walk in my shoes.

Eden takes it's target back to the beginning of time, the beginning of creation: The BIG BANG for only a split second, a split second of feeling the raw energy that created the universe, and then returns them back to the present severely damaged. Watch the summons again, look at the clock. The name Eden. This is how I see it. Hell, I watch while eating popcorn, this summons is so long.

Now just the other day, it dawned on me that because of Eden's nature to take targets back through time and it was an experimental man-made GF, that it was the closest thing to this fabeled JME. I'm definitely not saying that Eden is "The" JME, but simply that it seems to function on a similar mechanics as the JME was described. Frankly, I don't think the JME even exists.

But here, let me help you get all your insults out in one fell-swoop...

I also believe that Para-Magic is an inherent ability and anyone can use, but it requires a GF (quasi-sentient entities of energy) to use higher power levels of energy. Also that most para-magics are telepathic illusions while some are physical manifestations of energy. I believe that Rinoa could possibly become Ultimecia,

Now there... I've pretty much put ideas of 'mysteries' of FFVIII out there.

Hate me if you want, but don't ridicule me for my ideals. Just because I have an imagination is no reason to insult me. Especially when we're talking about Fantasy. Imagination and curiosity are the two reasons why this thread was started in the first place and why I came here. We're here to discuss the 'mysteries' not 'debate' about them.

[Skyblade]

Face it... it's like the mystery of religion... Believe it or not, it's not going away... So if you're tired to death of the endless discussion... :laugh:

Yeah, religion IS a mystery. Why do so many people believe despite an overwhelming lack of evidence, results, or reason? And who ever said I was tired? Come on, bring on the sadistic treatment of a necrotic equine. I got my bat good and ready.

Drop the relegion talk. It's off topic, and I don't want to wind up blasting you, Ryu, when blasting PAK is so much more fun.

Eden takes it's target back to the beginning of time, the beginning of creation: The BIG BANG for only a split second, a split second of feeling the raw energy that created the universe, and then returns them back to the present severely damaged. Watch the summons again, look at the clock. The name Eden. This is how I see it. Hell, I watch while eating popcorn, this summons is so long.

Logical fallacy. It is not, and in fact cannot be taking its target back to the Big Bang. Simply because the target rams a galaxy, which is what causes that massive explosion, and a galaxy could not possibly have existed before the Big Bang. Also, the explosion is quite clearly caused by Eden, so arguing that the explosion is the Big Bang enters into paradox territory.

[Christmas]

What a mess.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

[QUOTE=Skyblade;1912552]

Face it... it's like the mystery of religion... Believe it or not, it's not going away... So if you're tired to death of the endless discussion... :laugh:

Yeah, religion IS a mystery. Why do so many people believe despite an overwhelming lack of evidence, results, or reason? And who ever said I was tired? Come on, bring on the sadistic treatment of a necrotic equine. I got my bat good and ready.

Drop the relegion talk. It's off topic, and I don't want to wind up blasting you, Ryu, when blasting PAK is so much more fun.

Then you may as well tell the other posts to stop referring to the Bible and Eden. So why are you telling just me to stop? I'll tell ya why: Spite. And don't deny or lie, or your nose will grow.

Eden takes it's target back to the beginning of time, the beginning of creation: The BIG BANG for only a split second, a split second of feeling the raw energy that created the universe, and then returns them back to the present severely damaged. Watch the summons again, look at the clock. The name Eden. This is how I see it. Hell, I watch while eating popcorn, this summons is so long.

Logical fallacy. It is not, and in fact cannot be taking its target back to the Big Bang. Simply because the target rams a galaxy, which is what causes that massive explosion, and a galaxy could not possibly have existed before the Big Bang. Also, the explosion is quite clearly caused by Eden, so arguing that the explosion is the Big Bang enters into paradox territory.

Logical Fallacy? That's oxymoron in a Fantasy Discussion isn't it? And everyone looks at the name Eden and thinks "Garden" and "The Bible"... Eden can also refer to the "Beginning". Hmm... Didn't think of that one ya Pinnochio? I mean, honestly, how can you claim it as 'fallacy'... Are we looking at the same summons or what?


For the love of the widow. Are you still mad Pinnochio? Even more spiteful-spit. And you admitted that yourself by saying "Making for fun of PAK is more fun". That's nothing but spite. You get a STFU.

AND that IS the BIG BANG! It's how the universe, (galaxies and what not) started. What do think the clock animation represented? The target doesn't 'ram' the galaxy as so much as it shoots the target through time and hits the energy of the Big Bang just as the Big Bang occurs releasing the now expanding universe. and then is placed back in the present. Hence, Eden... The Beginning...

Now, you can't claim to judge my version of Eden without expressing your own original ideas... I mean, at least what I said makes the animation make sense.

So go ahead, state you original idea of what Eden is and the animation. I would honestly love to hear them...

ANd anyone else's...

[Skyblade]

Face it... it's like the mystery of religion... Believe it or not, it's not going away... So if you're tired to death of the endless discussion... :laugh:

Yeah, religion IS a mystery. Why do so many people believe despite an overwhelming lack of evidence, results, or reason? And who ever said I was tired? Come on, bring on the sadistic treatment of a necrotic equine. I got my bat good and ready.

Drop the relegion talk. It's off topic, and I don't want to wind up blasting you, Ryu, when blasting PAK is so much more fun.

Then you may as well tell the other posts to stop referring to the Bible and Eden. So why are you telling just me to stop? I'll tell ya why: Spite. And don't deny or lie, or your nose will grow.

Actually, if you bother to read what I was saying (which you never seem to do), I was asking both you and Ryu to stop it. If you want to relate religion to the thread topic, that's fine, but if you notice, you were referring to "the mystery of relegion", and Ryu was switching the discussion to a "does God exist" thread. Neither of you were giving anything even remotely related to what the thread was about, as everyone else was doing when they pointed out that the Biblical garden of Eden was the source of Eden's name.

Eden takes it's target back to the beginning of time, the beginning of creation: The BIG BANG for only a split second, a split second of feeling the raw energy that created the universe, and then returns them back to the present severely damaged. Watch the summons again, look at the clock. The name Eden. This is how I see it. Hell, I watch while eating popcorn, this summons is so long.

Logical fallacy. It is not, and in fact cannot be taking its target back to the Big Bang. Simply because the target rams a galaxy, which is what causes that massive explosion, and a galaxy could not possibly have existed before the Big Bang. Also, the explosion is quite clearly caused by Eden, so arguing that the explosion is the Big Bang enters into paradox territory.

Logical Fallacy? That's oxymoron in a Fantasy Discussion isn't it? And everyone looks at the name Eden and thinks "Garden" and "The Bible"... Eden can also refer to the "Beginning". Hmm... Didn't think of that one ya Pinnochio?


For the love of the widow. Are you still mad Pinnochio? Even more spiteful-spit. And you admitted that yourself by saying "Making for fun of PAK is more fun". That's nothing but spite. You get a STFU.

Ha ha ha. Is that still the only defense you can offer against logic? You call me a puppet and you claim to pull the strings? Why not try to actually use your brain for once? This isn't in PMs this time, PAK. Go on. You'll prove to the entire forum just how deficient your debate abilities really are. Or would you prefer me to just paste all those PMs in here and ask everyone else to judge us by what was said in them?

AND that IS the BIG BANG! It's how the universe, (galaxies and what not) started.

Then how was there already a galaxy there before that explosion, oh wonder of modern thought?

What do think the clock animation represented? The target doesn't 'ram' the galaxy as so much as it reaches it just as the Big Bang occurs and then is placed back in the present.

I never related that animation to a clock. I've always thought it was simply a magic glyph. We've seen hundreds of them in FF games. Every summon in X even had their own. But, that is open to speculation, and I will allow you that claim. However, even if it was a clock and was indeed time travel, it cannot be going back to the Big Bang.

Now, you can't claim to judge my version of Eden without expressing what you see... I mean, at least what I said makes the animation make sense.

Well, actually, I can. But I won't.

So go ahead, state you original idea of what Eden is and the animation.

Personally, I've always viewed it like this: Eden is using the universe as a massive particle accelerator, imparting upon its target a velocity near that of light before striking it into the heart of a galaxy, the birthplace of stars. That sort of kinetic energy striking that much unstable material causes a massive explosion.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

Okay...

1. That doesn't look like a 'galaxy' to me. More like a massive black hole.

2. The 'runes' that you're referring to, have Roman Numerals on them like a clock. and it's 'gears' are going backwards to align with the Cosmic Alignment. Hence, why I mentioned the clock animation.

3. I don't know about 'using the entire universe' as a particle accelerator. Coudn't the kinetic energy of the rotation of the earth do that alone? Good idea though... But, also, how does the target get put back where it was taken? And if it struck a galaxy with that much kinetic potential, would it start a massive energy wake or create a huge galactic collapse, ergo a super massive black hole?

I prefer the Time Machine, it makes more sense to me, but you have a good idea. For Love of the Widow, I wish I knew how to post pics on this thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mht4jHNT34g


You see how it warps gravity to bring the target to it's... uh... time-portal shooter-thingie? Warp gravity, you're screwing with time. Also, the clock animation and then when it forms that tunnel through space...


4. Also, I wouldn't suggest posting PM messages because that's what they are Private Messages. I could do the same with all the hate-mail I get, but what's the point? It's just pathetic and petty.


Explain further about Eden, because after this I wanna ask about Alexander next, The Holy Armageddon Machine.

[Skyblade]

Okay...

1. That doesn't look like a 'galaxy' to me. More like a massive black hole.

See the pic I attached. It looks far more like a galaxy than any picture of a Black Hole I've ever seen. Of course, even if it was a black hole, where did the Black Hole come from, if this is before the Big Bang?

2. The 'runes' that you're referring to, have Roman Numerals on them like a clock. and it's 'gears' are going backwards to align with the Cosmic Alignment. Hence, why I mentioned the clock animation.

You're right, the numerals look like a clock. As to the backshifting you've mentioned, it's meaning is up for debate, but I'll grant that you have a reasonable interpretation of it, except that even if it is a time machine, it can't be going back to the Big Bang. Anyway, with any near relativistic speeds, temporal equations would certainly be necessary, so I could adapt that to my idea too.

3. I don't know about 'using the entire universe' as a particle accelerator. Coudn't the kinetic energy of the rotation of the earth do that alone? Good idea though... But, also, how does the target get put back where it was taken? And if it struck a galaxy with that much kinetic potential, would it start a massive energy wake or create a huge galactic collapse, ergo a super massive black hole?

Actually, the results of such an impact would be difficult to calculate. The result that occurs, a nearly galaxy sized explosion, might be possible, but the result could be simply a supernova.

As to how they get back, how does Sephiroth's Supernova destroy the entire solar system, several times? How would they get back from the Big Bang?

I prefer the Time Machine, it makes more sense to me, but you have a good idea. For Love of the Widow, I wish I knew how to post pics on this thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mht4jHNT34g


You see how it warps gravity to bring the target to it's... uh... time-portal shooter-thingie? Warp gravity, you're screwing with time. Also, the clock animation and then when it forms that tunnel through space...

You prefer your theory, I prefer mine. Whether that is actual gravitational distortion or not is certainly up for debate.

4. Also, I wouldn't suggest posting PM messages because that's what they are Private Messages. I could do the same with all the hate-mail I get, but what's the point? It's just pathetic and petty.

Then don't refer to them, period. If you do so, by calling me "Pinnochio" again, I will present those for full viewing in the Eyes on Each Other forum, explaining that you agreed to it (because such name calling will be an indication to me that you want that discussion to be a matter of public record).

Explain further about Eden, because after this I wanna ask about Alexander next, The Holy Armageddon Machine.

There isn't that much to explain about this, I don't think.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

Okay...

1. That doesn't look like a 'galaxy' to me. More like a massive black hole.

See the pic I attached. It looks far more like a galaxy than any picture of a Black Hole I've ever seen. Of course, even if it was a black hole, where did the Black Hole come from, if this is before the Big Bang?.

I don't see the pic you're referring to. I've seen and LOVE the show NOVA, and black holes are depicted in various shapes and sizes. And What I'm saying is that this 'galaxy' or 'blackhole' isn't before, the Big Bang, it IS the ENERGY that triggers the Big Bang. Originally the universe was a collapsed state of matter, as theorized, this I surmise to be that pre-bang energy. IThere had to be some form of matter there before it exploded and to it's current expanding state. I mean, if you claim that the Big Bang come from nothing then we're going to have to refer to God 'snapping his fingers' and saying "Let there be light". Also pluasiable but just hard to work into this analysis as we've detailed so far. Now, it also could be that we're witnessing the "Crunch" because the clock spins forward, but the 'gears' spin backwards till there is a "Cosmic Alignment". Forwards or backwards, I'm not sure, but I'm sure time travel to the Alpha and/or Omega is involved.

2. The 'runes' that you're referring to, have Roman Numerals on them like a clock. and it's 'gears' are going backwards to align with the Cosmic Alignment. Hence, why I mentioned the clock animation.

You're right, the numerals look like a clock. As to the backshifting you've mentioned, it's meaning is up for debate, but I'll grant that you have a reasonable interpretation of it, except that even if it is a time machine, it can't be going back to the Big Bang. Anyway, with any near relativistic speeds, temporal equations would certainly be necessary, so I could adapt that to my idea too..

See, NOW we're discussing, not debating. I see Eden as warping time and space. In fact, this could be a perfect visual aid for "Time Compression"... Nah, maybe not, but it does give a good representation of a timeline and 'stages' (the circle around the tunnel) through time itself. The beginning of the summons show's Eden in some sort of temporal distortion and it seems to be 'viewing' various occurences or events (be this current, throughout time when it's 'supposed' to appear, or whatever it's up for discussion) As I suspect that Eden is a quasi-techo-organic GF (which is strange for an entity of energy, but Eden is supposedly 'man-made') it maybe be already calculating pre-designated coordinates of 'when' it's suppose to appear next.

Also to reiterate, this makes me believe that this is the closest thing to a JME and it maybe the 'toy' that Odine was referring to. I personally don't believe the JME exist, but this is a strong notion I just got.

3. I don't know about 'using the entire universe' as a particle accelerator. Coudn't the kinetic energy of the rotation of the earth do that alone? Good idea though... But, also, how does the target get put back where it was taken? And if it struck a galaxy with that much kinetic potential, would it start a massive energy wake or create a huge galactic collapse, ergo a super massive black hole?

Actually, the results of such an impact would be difficult to calculate. The result that occurs, a nearly galaxy sized explosion, might be possible, but the result could be simply a supernova..

Hmm... You could be right, but it has been theorized that making a 'hyper-jump' in an atmosphere or near a planetary gravity well, could cause incredible havoc. Possibly a galactic chain reaction if your example is correct. Hmm....

As to how they get back, how does Sephiroth's Supernova destroy the entire solar system, several times? How would they get back from the Big Bang?

C'mon... You know if I used an example like that, especially from that Summon from FFVII, you would grill me... Maybe flame-broil. But my grumbling stomach digresses. Sephiroth's Meteor Summon is clearly for dramatic purposes or an illusion like I assume Meteor is an illusion in Para-Magic.

I came across this problem too because "How does the target get back after flying into a ... Then I just starting watching noticed the clock and connected everything. By warping the target back with just a 'taste' of 'creation' it places it back whence it came without disrupting the timestream, and keep doing this with multiple targets. Time is funny that way.

I prefer the Time Machine, it makes more sense to me, but you have a good idea. For Love of the Widow, I wish I knew how to post pics on this thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mht4jHNT34g


You see how it warps gravity to bring the target to it's... uh... time-portal shooter-thingie? Warp gravity, you're screwing with time. Also, the clock animation and then when it forms that tunnel through space...

You prefer your theory, I prefer mine. Whether that is actual gravitational distortion or not is certainly up for debate.

We have come to terms.

4. Also, I wouldn't suggest posting PM messages because that's what they are Private Messages. I could do the same with all the hate-mail I get, but what's the point? It's just pathetic and petty.

Then don't refer to them, period. If you do so, by calling me "Pinnochio" again, I will present those for full viewing in the Eyes on Each Other forum, explaining that you agreed to it (because such name calling will be an indication to me that you want that discussion to be a matter of public record).

First, off, don't threaten me, okay. I only call you 'puppet' when I see you spit at me. And also you don't want to post PMs, because I did that once and got a serious repremand for that one. I could do that same with all the hate-mail I get but I'll just get warned or out-right banned. They're private messages, and that's where their suppose to stay. Now let's shake hands, hugs, kisses, get drunk, and have angry make-up sex, ect, ect, and peace unto each other until the next conflict: The Sequel (coming this Fall on Fox).

Explain further about Eden, because after this I wanna ask about Alexander next, The Holy Armageddon Machine.

There isn't that much to explain about this, I don't think.

I don't know you may be right, but I feel there's more and plus I like talking about this sort of thing.

[Skyblade]

Okay...

1. That doesn't look like a 'galaxy' to me. More like a massive black hole.

See the pic I attached. It looks far more like a galaxy than any picture of a Black Hole I've ever seen. Of course, even if it was a black hole, where did the Black Hole come from, if this is before the Big Bang?.

I don't see the pic you're referring to. I've seen and LOVE the show NOVA, and black holes are depicted in various shapes and sizes. And What I'm saying is that this 'galaxy' or 'blackhole' isn't before, the Big Bang, it IS the ENERGY that triggers the Big Bang. Originally the universe was a collapsed state of matter, as theorized, this I surmise to be that pre-bang energy. IThere had to be some form of matter there before it exploded and to it's current expanding state. I mean, if you claim that the Big Bang come from nothing then we're going to have to refer to God 'snapping his fingers' and saying "Let there be light". Also pluasiable but just hard to work into this analysis as we've detailed so far. Now, it also could be that we're witnessing the "Crunch" because the clock spins forward, but the 'gears' spin backwards till there is a "Cosmic Alignment". Forwards or backwards, I'm not sure, but I'm sure time travel to the Alpha and/or Omega is involved.

2. The 'runes' that you're referring to, have Roman Numerals on them like a clock. and it's 'gears' are going backwards to align with the Cosmic Alignment. Hence, why I mentioned the clock animation.

You're right, the numerals look like a clock. As to the backshifting you've mentioned, it's meaning is up for debate, but I'll grant that you have a reasonable interpretation of it, except that even if it is a time machine, it can't be going back to the Big Bang. Anyway, with any near relativistic speeds, temporal equations would certainly be necessary, so I could adapt that to my idea too..

See, NOW we're discussing, not debating. I see Eden as warping time and space. In fact, this could be a perfect visual aid for "Time Compression"... Nah, maybe not, but it does give a good representation of a timeline and 'stages' (the circle around the tunnel) through time itself. The beginning of the summons show's Eden in some sort of temporal distortion and it seems to be 'viewing' various occurences or events (be this current, throughout time when it's 'supposed' to appear, or whatever it's up for discussion) As I suspect that Eden is a quasi-techo-organic GF (which is strange for an entity of energy, but Eden is supposedly 'man-made') it maybe be already calculating pre-designated coordinates of 'when' it's suppose to appear next.

Also to reiterate, this makes me believe that this is the closest thing to a JME and it maybe the 'toy' that Odine was referring to. I personally don't believe the JME exist, but this is a strong notion I just got.

3. I don't know about 'using the entire universe' as a particle accelerator. Coudn't the kinetic energy of the rotation of the earth do that alone? Good idea though... But, also, how does the target get put back where it was taken? And if it struck a galaxy with that much kinetic potential, would it start a massive energy wake or create a huge galactic collapse, ergo a super massive black hole?

Actually, the results of such an impact would be difficult to calculate. The result that occurs, a nearly galaxy sized explosion, might be possible, but the result could be simply a supernova..

Hmm... You could be right, but it has been theorized that making a 'hyper-jump' in an atmosphere or near a planetary gravity well, could cause incredible havoc. Possibly a galactic chain reaction if your example is correct. Hmm....

As to how they get back, how does Sephiroth's Supernova destroy the entire solar system, several times? How would they get back from the Big Bang?

C'mon... You know if I used an example like that, especially from that Summon from FFVII, you would grill me... Maybe flame-broil. But my grumbling stomach digresses. Sephiroth's Meteor Summon is clearly for dramatic purposes or an illusion like I assume Meteor is an illusion in Para-Magic.

I came across this problem too because "How does the target get back after flying into a ... Then I just starting watching noticed the clock and connected everything. By warping the target back with just a 'taste' of 'creation' it places it back whence it came without disrupting the timestream, and keep doing this with multiple targets. Time is funny that way.

I prefer the Time Machine, it makes more sense to me, but you have a good idea. For Love of the Widow, I wish I knew how to post pics on this thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mht4jHNT34g


You see how it warps gravity to bring the target to it's... uh... time-portal shooter-thingie? Warp gravity, you're screwing with time. Also, the clock animation and then when it forms that tunnel through space...

You prefer your theory, I prefer mine. Whether that is actual gravitational distortion or not is certainly up for debate.

We have come to terms.

4. Also, I wouldn't suggest posting PM messages because that's what they are Private Messages. I could do the same with all the hate-mail I get, but what's the point? It's just pathetic and petty.

Then don't refer to them, period. If you do so, by calling me "Pinnochio" again, I will present those for full viewing in the Eyes on Each Other forum, explaining that you agreed to it (because such name calling will be an indication to me that you want that discussion to be a matter of public record).

First, off, don't threaten me, okay. I only call you 'puppet' when I see you spit at me. And also you don't want to post PMs, because I did that once and got a serious repremand for that one. I could do that same with all the hate-mail I get but I'll just get warned or out-right banned. They're private messages, and that's where their suppose to stay. Now let's shake hands, hugs, kisses, get drunk, and have angry make-up sex, ect, ect, and peace unto each other until the next conflict: The Sequel (coming this Fall on Fox).

Explain further about Eden, because after this I wanna ask about Alexander next, The Holy Armageddon Machine.

There isn't that much to explain about this, I don't think.

I don't know you may be right, but I feel there's more and plus I like talking about this sort of thing.

It's only a "discussion" if people don't disagree with you?

So you're saying you've been manipulating people to insult you, and then any time they do, you complain about it? It sounds to me as though you have no one but yourself to blame, so you STFU.

And I'll threaten you any time I damn well please. If you are ashamed of what you said, or afraid of how stupid it will make you look, you shouldn't have said it. Even if I'm not allowed to make a thread about it, I'll PM the full discussion to everyone who has been active in these threads, and then we can all make veiled references about you. So cut the insults and the arrogance, or suffer the consequences.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

Okay...

1. That doesn't look like a 'galaxy' to me. More like a massive black hole.

See the pic I attached. It looks far more like a galaxy than any picture of a Black Hole I've ever seen. Of course, even if it was a black hole, where did the Black Hole come from, if this is before the Big Bang?.

I don't see the pic you're referring to. I've seen and LOVE the show NOVA, and black holes are depicted in various shapes and sizes. And What I'm saying is that this 'galaxy' or 'blackhole' isn't before, the Big Bang, it IS the ENERGY that triggers the Big Bang. Originally the universe was a collapsed state of matter, as theorized, this I surmise to be that pre-bang energy. IThere had to be some form of matter there before it exploded and to it's current expanding state. I mean, if you claim that the Big Bang come from nothing then we're going to have to refer to God 'snapping his fingers' and saying "Let there be light". Also pluasiable but just hard to work into this analysis as we've detailed so far. Now, it also could be that we're witnessing the "Crunch" because the clock spins forward, but the 'gears' spin backwards till there is a "Cosmic Alignment". Forwards or backwards, I'm not sure, but I'm sure time travel to the Alpha and/or Omega is involved.

2. The 'runes' that you're referring to, have Roman Numerals on them like a clock. and it's 'gears' are going backwards to align with the Cosmic Alignment. Hence, why I mentioned the clock animation.

You're right, the numerals look like a clock. As to the backshifting you've mentioned, it's meaning is up for debate, but I'll grant that you have a reasonable interpretation of it, except that even if it is a time machine, it can't be going back to the Big Bang. Anyway, with any near relativistic speeds, temporal equations would certainly be necessary, so I could adapt that to my idea too..

See, NOW we're discussing, not debating. I see Eden as warping time and space. In fact, this could be a perfect visual aid for "Time Compression"... Nah, maybe not, but it does give a good representation of a timeline and 'stages' (the circle around the tunnel) through time itself. The beginning of the summons show's Eden in some sort of temporal distortion and it seems to be 'viewing' various occurences or events (be this current, throughout time when it's 'supposed' to appear, or whatever it's up for discussion) As I suspect that Eden is a quasi-techo-organic GF (which is strange for an entity of energy, but Eden is supposedly 'man-made') it maybe be already calculating pre-designated coordinates of 'when' it's suppose to appear next.

Also to reiterate, this makes me believe that this is the closest thing to a JME and it maybe the 'toy' that Odine was referring to. I personally don't believe the JME exist, but this is a strong notion I just got.

3. I don't know about 'using the entire universe' as a particle accelerator. Coudn't the kinetic energy of the rotation of the earth do that alone? Good idea though... But, also, how does the target get put back where it was taken? And if it struck a galaxy with that much kinetic potential, would it start a massive energy wake or create a huge galactic collapse, ergo a super massive black hole?

Actually, the results of such an impact would be difficult to calculate. The result that occurs, a nearly galaxy sized explosion, might be possible, but the result could be simply a supernova..

Hmm... You could be right, but it has been theorized that making a 'hyper-jump' in an atmosphere or near a planetary gravity well, could cause incredible havoc. Possibly a galactic chain reaction if your example is correct. Hmm....

As to how they get back, how does Sephiroth's Supernova destroy the entire solar system, several times? How would they get back from the Big Bang?

C'mon... You know if I used an example like that, especially from that Summon from FFVII, you would grill me... Maybe flame-broil. But my grumbling stomach digresses. Sephiroth's Meteor Summon is clearly for dramatic purposes or an illusion like I assume Meteor is an illusion in Para-Magic.

I came across this problem too because "How does the target get back after flying into a ... Then I just starting watching noticed the clock and connected everything. By warping the target back with just a 'taste' of 'creation' it places it back whence it came without disrupting the timestream, and keep doing this with multiple targets. Time is funny that way.

I prefer the Time Machine, it makes more sense to me, but you have a good idea. For Love of the Widow, I wish I knew how to post pics on this thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mht4jHNT34g


You see how it warps gravity to bring the target to it's... uh... time-portal shooter-thingie? Warp gravity, you're screwing with time. Also, the clock animation and then when it forms that tunnel through space...

You prefer your theory, I prefer mine. Whether that is actual gravitational distortion or not is certainly up for debate.

We have come to terms.

4. Also, I wouldn't suggest posting PM messages because that's what they are Private Messages. I could do the same with all the hate-mail I get, but what's the point? It's just pathetic and petty.

Then don't refer to them, period. If you do so, by calling me "Pinnochio" again, I will present those for full viewing in the Eyes on Each Other forum, explaining that you agreed to it (because such name calling will be an indication to me that you want that discussion to be a matter of public record).

First, off, don't threaten me, okay. I only call you 'puppet' when I see you spit at me. And also you don't want to post PMs, because I did that once and got a serious repremand for that one. I could do that same with all the hate-mail I get but I'll just get warned or out-right banned. They're private messages, and that's where their suppose to stay. Now let's shake hands, hugs, kisses, get drunk, and have angry make-up sex, ect, ect, and peace unto each other until the next conflict: The Sequel (coming this Fall on Fox).

Explain further about Eden, because after this I wanna ask about Alexander next, The Holy Armageddon Machine.

There isn't that much to explain about this, I don't think.

I don't know you may be right, but I feel there's more and plus I like talking about this sort of thing.

It's only a "discussion" if people don't disagree with you?

So you're saying you've been manipulating people to insult you, and then any time they do, you complain about it? It sounds to me as though you have no one but yourself to blame, so you STFU.

And I'll threaten you any time I damn well please. If you are ashamed of what you said, or afraid of how stupid it will make you look, you shouldn't have said it. Even if I'm not allowed to make a thread about it, I'll PM the full discussion to everyone who has been active in these threads, and then we can all make veiled references about you. So cut the insults and the arrogance, or suffer the consequences.

Dude, you're making this a public rant and that's not what this thread is about... You and can disagree, but if you'll notice I did not 'totally dismiss your ideas' and I did it in a nice way. Definitely not in a humiliating and belittling fashion as the case often goes. I issued not initital no name calling, and no insults. I gave your ideas a benefit of the doubt despite your lack of evidence. I'm discussing not debating.

Now, if you post those emails, just remember I warned ya. You can't post them here because it's irrelevent and just showcases you as being petty to try and blatantly publicly 'embarass' me? Dude, please. And I'd read the FAQ one more time before you do.
Or as I like to say... "I told ya, stop hittin' the table."


Now we were getting along just fine a while ago... Shall we continue with that peaceful discussion?

Which one?

"Eden Is A Time Machine"

"Alexander: The Holy Armaggedon Machine"

"Para-Magic: Ilusionary or Physical Energy?

Or whatever other mysteries we have...

[Ryushikaze]

Actually, Skyblade holds copyright on all of the PMs he takes part in, so unless you two made some form of agreement to nondisclosure, he is fully within his rights to expose any or all of them he so desires, as do you.

Of course, attempting to find the meaning behind a battle mechanic is rather silly. Canonically, most battles do not happen. Heck, we don't even know if Squall can do the Lionheart out of battle mechanics land.

And PAK, that can't be the big bang. There is space outside of that galaxy, and the BB resulted in the formation of space and time as we know them.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

Actually, Skyblade holds copyright on all of the PMs he takes part in, so unless you two made some form of agreement to nondisclosure, he is fully within his rights to expose any or all of them he so desires, as do you.

Of course, attempting to find the meaning behind a battle mechanic is rather silly. Canonically, most battles do not happen. Heck, we don't even know if Squall can do the Lionheart out of battle mechanics land.

And PAK, that can't be the big bang. There is space outside of that galaxy, and the BB resulted in the formation of space and time as we know them.

I'm not following you... Please explain. As I understood it, there are many therories... One of them, which I assumed was displayed in the animation, that there was a previous universe, or a condensed form space that exploded into the current universe. Kinda like another reversal of "The Crunch" But also, what do you think Eden is and the animation depicts Ryushikazie?

[Skyblade]

Ok, to summarize Ryu's post.

First paragraph: I am fully within my rights to reveal the contents of any and all PMs that are in my messenger.

Second paragraph: Battle mechanics rarely if ever hold consistency with the rest of the universe. Take Sephiroth's Supernova. In a single battle, he can destroy the solar system, and every planet in it, multiple times. You'd think that a planet can only be blasted to smithereens once, but it can happen many, many times. Take any spell or ability in the game. After using it, no matter how big or destructive the blast may be, the ground the enemy is standing on is never affected, and the battle area is totally unscathed by the end. So trying to explain what Eden "really" does is nearly impossible.

Third paragraph: The Big Bang formed space and matter, so matter (Eden's target) moving through space before the Big Bang is impossible.

Anyway, there's a lot of Big Bang theories, and discussing them will take us well outside the range of this topic.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

Ok, to summarize Ryu's post.

First paragraph: I am fully within my rights to reveal the contents of any and all PMs that are in my messenger.

Second paragraph: Battle mechanics rarely if ever hold consistency with the rest of the universe. Take Sephiroth's Supernova. In a single battle, he can destroy the solar system, and every planet in it, multiple times. You'd think that a planet can only be blasted to smithereens once, but it can happen many, many times. Take any spell or ability in the game. After using it, no matter how big or destructive the blast may be, the ground the enemy is standing on is never affected, and the battle area is totally unscathed by the end. So trying to explain what Eden "really" does is nearly impossible.

Third paragraph: The Big Bang formed space and matter, so matter (Eden's target) moving through space before the Big Bang is impossible.

Anyway, there's a lot of Big Bang theories, and discussing them will take us well outside the range of this topic.

But that brings the questions was the target being pushed through space-time or time-space? I'm thinking it was space-time (or is that the other way around) like a warp/hyper-jump.

Hmm... one can transverse any amount of space given enough time is... time-space... Or...:frust: