"Cheap" tactics. Cheating or Fair Game?

[Mo-Nercy]

I made this thread a fair while back ago, but there's a bunch of new people that hang around here that I'd like to gather the opinions of.

"Cheating" is a very harsh thing to accuse someone of. Especially if the accuser can't tell the difference between "real" cheating (eg. gameshark, secret button inputs) and the "other" kind of cheating, the cheating that really isn't. (eg. using the best character in a fighting game, ramming opponents off the course in racing games)

In Soul Calibur 2 and 3, every stage has an edge. And if you somehow manage to manuever your opponent into a position where you can ring them out and then proceed to do so, it should NOT be considering cheating. I play at arcades frequently and my skill level is considerably higher than the regular player so I get accused of using "cheap tactics" or "cheating the game" at least once every few days. Why my opponent decided to let me push them around to the edge is beyond me. Ironically, about half of my ring outs are performed when my back is to the edge and I flip the opponent over my head. This suggests that when I move toward the edge, the opponent sees the opportunity to ring me out and tries to only to realise he's been lured into a trap. Now if an opponent has every intention of knocking me out of the ring, why would he call ME a cheater when I put him over instead? Hypocrisy at it's finest. Jackasses.

In Initial D: Arcade Stage, all the racing is done on tight, twisty mountain tracks. It's quite simple for a worse racer in a car that starts a little better to get the lead in the open moments of a race and hold it all the way to the end by blocking his opponent. I frequently take my opponents to a course called Irohazaka, a road that's tighter than most. I've had quite a few noobs groan at me when I make my selection. Coincidentally, Irohazaka also happens to have the most turns out of all the courses and thus provides the greatest opportunity to pass but the number of people that simply decide not to try because they assume I'm going to win just because I've pick a "cheap" course never fails to astound me. Honestly, people are some douche bags.

Those are my arguments. I can't really see how someone can label someone a cheater for doing something that's designed into the game for the specific purpose of bettering the user. It's like those weirdos who say Holy Wars are cheating in FF8. I say, if it's in the friggin' game, you're allowed to use it.

[DK]

Yeah, I agree with you on both counts. This post was way longer and more detailed but I just hit ctrl and some other button that made me skip back a page and lose it and now I can't be assed to type it out again.

I can't see how the second one is being cheap when both of you have to drive on the same course, it's not like you have an advantage.

If you're being cheap like, doing an infinate combo on someone in a fighting game, however, then you suck.

[Zante]

Of course its not cheating. If a character is stronger than the others, I would be stupid not to pick him because of some made up honor-rules.

I get this alot in FPS games. People always whine when I use snipers, explosives, rocket launchers and the like. The funny thing is, noone is keeping them from using those weapons too, its their fault when they refuse to use them and then lose.

[ljkkjlcm9]

haha, I complain in shooter games about people that spray, or spray rockets, or keep throwing nades. But I typically only say something when someone spams it. Because honestly, that's not playing the game. But of course, it's gotten to the point that these people upset me so much that I hack and then they get mad at me, so it all evens out haha.

THE JACKEL

[Shin Gouken]

I honestly believe that things like holy wars were added to a game to help people who are not very skilled at the game. KOTR in FFVII is another example. Making your party invincable and inflicting so much damage that you kill a boss with three times as much damage as he has HP is just not fair play.

[Mo-Nercy]

I honestly believe that things like holy wars were added to a game to help people who are not very skilled at the game. KOTR in FFVII is another example. Making your party invincable and inflicting so much damage that you kill a boss with three times as much damage as he has HP is just not fair play.

If Square has to put in items to assist the so-called unskilled players, then Square isn't giving it's fans much credit. It doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to play Final Fantasy, especially FFs 7 and 8..

Besides, it's pretty much unheard of to fight the Weapons with KOTR in FF7. I know you can beat Ruby with Hades pretty easily but the only alternative for Emerald would be to Mime + Counter a limit break. And that's just pointless materia mastering, which requires even less skill than acquiring a Gold Chocobo to go get KOTR anyway.

[Jessweeee♪]

I think it's a very cheap-o way of playing, but not cheating.

If you're being cheap like, doing an infinate combo on someone in a fighting game, however, then you suck.

Yes, I HATE when people do that. I don't consider it cheating, but very cheap. And in most fighting games ALL characters are good if you know how to use them. My favorite fighting game is Tekken, and I can kick ass with Mokujin. Even if he's someone I never use. See, I'm not so good at using, say, Julia. But when Mokujin is Julia I do just fine. Odd.

Well, talking about using holy wars being cheating, then you may as well say the whole game is. I think overleveling is pretty cheap too. I mean, you over level then fight a boss that someone else is having trouble with, and they say something like "geez, that was easy! how are you stuck?" OF COURSE IT'S EASY WHEN YOU'RE LEVEL 1,000!!!

In FFVIII you can junction everyone's stat's to max, easily. Tell me that isn't kind of cheap when you fight Ultimecia (an already easier than usual boss) and beat her in four hits?
You could beat Ultima weapon in three turns that way!
Rinoa: Draw Eden
Squall: Aura on Irvine
Irvine: Demolition Shot
Didn't even need turbo controller (which is cheating, sorta).

While we're on the topic of cheating, I just want to say that sometimes it's nescessary. Some games like GTA I don't think are fun unless you DO cheat.

EDIT: hrm...wrong strategy.

[Shin Gouken]

I honestly believe that things like holy wars were added to a game to help people who are not very skilled at the game. KOTR in FFVII is another example. Making your party invincable and inflicting so much damage that you kill a boss with three times as much damage as he has HP is just not fair play.

If Square has to put in items to assist the so-called unskilled players, then Square isn't giving it's fans much credit. It doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to play Final Fantasy, especially FFs 7 and 8..

Besides, it's pretty much unheard of to fight the Weapons with KOTR in FF7. I know you can beat Ruby with Hades pretty easily but the only alternative for Emerald would be to Mime + Counter a limit break. And that's just pointless materia mastering, which requires even less skill than acquiring a Gold Chocobo to go get KOTR anyway.

That's what i'm saying... KOTR=completley unessessary. FF isn't a hard game and their are strategies for beating everything without the super-materia or becoming invincable. But there are players who arent good at FF and there are younger fans who might find it difficult... The items (i believe) are primarily for them so they can enjoy all parts of the game. I don't believe these items are hard to get, simply time consuming.

[Jessweeee♪]

KOTR is just a pain in the ass to get.

[Captain Maxx Power]

Sorry Mo-Nercy, but this all seems like a ruse for you to post about how much you "pwn n00bs" without anyone being any the wiser. But I'm onto you...

[ljkkjlcm9]

You know people, the japanese do think us silly americans are stupid, you know Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, yeah that's called Final Fantasy USA over there, and that game is for retards or little kids to learn about RPGs. Either way, I see no problem with rare items to make the game easier in a single player game, if you think it's cheap, you don't have to use it, but someone else can if they want to. Cheap really only applies to multiplayer games.

THE JACKEL

[Jessweeee♪]

I've never even heard of a FFMQ.

[DK]

There's nothing wrong with KOTR, it takes a crapload of time and effort to get it, either that or you have to kill one of the Weapons and trade it for the Gold Chocobo. Either way, it's just a nice reward for spending time on the game to go that far to actually get the thing in the first place, it looks flashy and cool and it's strong. If you went to the bother of getting it in the first place, you're perfectly entitled to use it.

[Cz]

I say, if it's in the friggin' game, you're allowed to use it.

This is absolutely true in most cases. In the case of RPGs, most of the 'cheap' items take a heck of a long time to get. Anyone who's willing to put in the time and effort to get KotR deserves to use it whenever they like, if you ask me. Otherwise you might as well start criticising people for levelling up.

On the other hand, there are certain rare occurences when a certain character or weapon can seriously upset the balance of a game, and in those instances those characters can be quite rightly banned from serious play. Other times, stages are banned for presenting an unfair advantage to certain characters (Hyrule Temple + Fox = Suckiness). I generally find it's a good idea to agree on a set of banned characters/stages before playing someone even semi-seriously. That way, there's no way your opponent can blame you for kicking their butt.

[Old Manus]

Only if it doesn't take the fun out of the game or something.