Depends if you bother with levelling. xD Rydia kicks Edge's ass when he joins the party everytime I play through the game again.
Yeah, I probably enjoy leveling up too much. But Rydia giving a painful preview of Armageddon to every monster around is kinda fun.
So in defense of Rosa, I drew her going "Mmm.. Complex fractions are dumb" on my Algebra work this morning along with a chibi Edward going "BAD ANT LION" and a small Ant Lion and Cecil and Rydia being all "o o;".
I've read to much of the Power of cheese. -THAT- makes Rosa tollerable... the power of cheese..
Mmm...
Posting it here since I don't want to hijack the other thread completely.
No, it really isn't all in my head. I wouldn't be this spastic if it weren't for things I've SEEN looking around online. I've seen people claim Rosa dated Kain and dumped him for Cecil because she's loose for whoever has the most power in Baron. Worse than that, I've seen plenty of people believe it; I could be mistaken, but I think this very board is one of the places where I saw it happen. I know ffrepublic is one of them.Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryűkishi
I've seen people call her clingy, weak, vapid, stupid and wimpy, along with plenty of other negatives. I've seen people say Cecil could have done better than Rosa (that came straight from the questions thread of this board), and representing the extreme end, one person saying they wish Rosa had died and Rydia had married Cecil. I've seen a select few hate Rosa because she's blonde. I've seen plenty call her a stereotypical white mage, ignoring the fact that she was the first white mage in the series with the personality she has (sometimes ignoring it even after being told outright).
And I've seen Square-Enix drop her like a pox on the series the moment they learned from the poll results at the Square-Enix party that Rosa's so disliked, she ranks fifth in the roster, just below Cid. I've seen Rydia get a DS kit strap, three variations of a wallpaper specially made for her, and her being the very first episode in The After to come after the prerequisite intro and Ceodore episodes. All while Rosa gets relegated to a bit part.
I've seen the badmouthing of Rosa and the incessant praising of Rydia. I've seen the thousands of pieces of fanart and fanfiction people write for their green-haired goddess, and the mere handful for Rosa. I've gone places, tried to point out her good qualities, had them shot down as fanciful imaginings of a rabid fanboy all while everyone talks about how awesome Rydia is for getting over her fear of fire (speaking as if she did it all by herself) or appearing just barely in the nick of time to save Cecil's party in the underworld (yet somehow, the fact that Rosa manages to keep Kain from killing Cecil in Fabul is inconsequential).
I'm a massive fan of Rosa. I'm not afraid to admit that. I'm one of a mere handful, too. But you know what? I wouldn't be this crazed if Rosa got even a sliver of the attention and respect Rydia receives. A year ago, I didn't care that Rydia was more liked, I didn't mind... then I saw the badmouthing, and the blatant disrespect, and Square-Enix dropping Rosa like a bad rash and hopping on the Rydia bandwagon. I've lost the appreciation I once had for Rydia, because it comes at the cost of Rosa getting any appreciation at all.
That doesn't mean I hate Rydia. She's a good character. It means that I have to hear about how much people adore her to pieces so often, and hear about how badly people hate or dislike Rosa so much, that I literally can't appreciate the things that make her a good character.
Someone might say this post runs the risk of making Rosa more of a character to steer clear of because nobody wants to be like "that crazy, obsessive nutso PaladinCecil guy," but nobody was going to start liking Rosa anyway, and she can't possibly be brought any lower in the eyes of gamers than people have already made her, so nothing is lost for the character by me making this post and saying these things.
Bottom line, if Rosa were actually liked and respected instead of put down most of the time, I wouldn't be thinking this way and having these feelings, and you wouldn't have to bear with this post.
This might sound like a desperate plea for more fan attention to Rosa. It's actually a rant, for a simple reason: it's too late for Rosa to get anything close to resembling respect for her as a character. The view of her as this empty waste of a character is sealed in the minds of gamers, and there's no changing it. I'm being realistic. Square-Enix doesn't care about her, and the people who already see her as a complete failure will never want to listen to a word I have to say that says otherwise to how they see her. So, on with the glorification of Rydia. That's all anyone ever wants to see or hear.
Well duh, Rydia's hotter.
You're overreacting. And possibly crazy.
It's not worth it reacting like this over a videogame character! She doesn't really exist.
Possibly right on the crazy part, wrong on the overreacting. Then again, aren't crazy people not aware that they're crazy? Must be a myth.
Women of Final Fantasy
Women of Final Fantasy
Here, the writer says Rosa is the lowest of the low of portrayals of women in the Final Fantasy series as a stepping stone to saying how bad FFX-2 was. The second one is her specific article by this writer.
Final Fantasy worsts (Contains FF7 spoilers) - Final Fantasy Republic Forums
Here, The Man claims that Rosa used to date Kain and dumped him for Cecil because Cecil has more power, while at least one person backs him up. I did find a thread on this board where The Man posted the same claims, but I saw nobody backing them up.
KobayashiRiku on deviantART
Here, someone else makes the same claim about Rosa as The Man, probably coming from him, which shows it's spread since he said it.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Wikiragon's_Neck_Colosseum/Archive_V#Week_47:_Aeris_v._Rosa
Here, people make all kinds of false assertions and badmouth Rosa left and right as they vote for Aeris, while most votes for Rosa come from one of three reasons: she's from Final Fantasy 4 (or an old-school FF), she's tied to a popular character they actually like (such as Cecil or Kain), or they hate Aeris and Rosa's her opponent for the match.
The above quote was from the never answered questions thread here.
Stay, a Final Fantasy I-VI fanfic - FanFiction.Net
I'm just adding the above for good measure. The writer sees Rosa as vapid, and then writes a story where Rosa leaves Cecil with no build-up then has Rydia pair up with Cecil. I might be too harsh on this one since it's a creative work and fanfiction, but then, I'm sure I'd have plenty of people hounding me if I wrote Rydia suddenly turning her back on her summoner roots and denouncing her mother with that same level of build-up.
I used to find a lot more, but now it's lost in a ton of basic coverage. There's also some sites that really put Rosa down, but I don't include them because the entire purpose of those sites is to badmouth characters while exaggerating their flaws. In other words, this is a small sampling of the huge array of things I've seen while trying to find Rosa fanart and fanfiction.
My loss of appreciation for Rydia isn't solely over her being more popular. What I wanted to get at, but never did, was that the way Rydia fans treat Rosa factors into it. A lot of Rydia fans say these things about Rosa, and often do it because they're trying to hype up Rydia and point to Rosa as what Rydia is not to make that happen.
Am I crazy? Maybe. Does it matter? No. I'm not protecting a reputation. Plenty of posts on this board make that blatantly clear, from the "worst character" threads where Rosa gets voted top to saying "Cecil could do better than Rosa" (by default saying she sucks as a character) to passive points like how a lot of people say Rosa is a worse DiD than Rinoa (as mentioned by Takara). I honestly don't care how pathetic or off my rocker I sound here. I couldn't possibly do more harm to how people see Rosa, because it's already so low that making her look worse is impossible.
And if I'm wrong? Prove it. Give me blatant proof that I'm wrong. Not one or two fansites (actually, one or two fansites is all there IS for her), or a few pieces of fanart (a nice chunk of which are because I commissioned them), actual proof that people see her as a good character. Because outside a few light comments about her being "okay" on the heels of me ranting about it, all I see is a lot of negativity and hatred sent her way, and its result is undeniable just looking at how little attention Rosa's received from Square-Enix once the company found out people didn't like her.
I'm aware of that, and if things were different, I wouldn't be making these posts. But as it is, every time I try to do anything involving Rosa, I have to go through how so much better everyone thinks Rydia is, and how utterly horrendous and vile they think Rosa is. I've commissioned a Rosa and Rydia work, only to have most people focus on how great Rydia looks in the picture, with one or two remarks about some minor aspect of Rosa like her stockings. I've then gone on to commission Rosa alone (since I didn't want to repeat Rydia stealing the whole spotlight despite both girls having equal coverage in the picture), only to have someone come along and say the artist should have done Rydia instead.It's not worth it reacting like this over a videogame character! She doesn't really exist.
You do realize how frustrating and annoying it can get to see that nobody likes Rosa at all, and everyone adores Rydia up and down every little way, when you're constantly reminded of the massive gap in how people see them, right? It's at the point where I wish FF4 was never remade for the DS, and I hope it never comes stateside, solely because I'm sick of hearing about how great the green-haired goddess is to everyone else and how awful Rosa is to them.
Which is a HUGE change from a year ago, since back then, I was overwhelmingly happy that Square-Enix was touching FF4 again and knew Rydia would get ridiculous levels of attention but didn't mind.
Edit: Dr. Acula is a prime example of exactly what I'm talking about. To quote once:
Edit by Kishi: Don't double-post.
This is the Internet. If I cared to look, I'm sure I could find people tearing into all of my favorite things, too. But I don't; and even if I saw them anyway, they wouldn't get to me. They're just utterances.
In other words, if you think Rosa is a great character, that's good enough.
Sorry for double-posting.
Yes, but the critical difference is that you would also find at least the same number of people who appreciate your favorite things. For Rosa, it's a mere handful. And you seem to have this view that I'm going out of my way to find people saying bad things about Rosa. I only do that if I need to make my case to someone. When I'm not, I see it anyway, whether I want to or not. I search for fanart and fanfiction of her, weeding through massive piles of Rydia even on something as simple as a Google search specifically geared toward Rosa. And in the midst of that, I see plenty of badmouthing toward Rosa before I find anything positive (using the term VERY loosely; positive could be as simple as a half-done sketch) about her.
Hence the part where I ask you to show me proof that I'm wrong about the majority of people loathing Rosa and having it sealed in their minds that she's an abomination to the series. I can't find any, can you?
This was my point: Whether your opinion is unpopular or not, it's useless to complain about the fact that there are people who disagree with it. Of course there are.
I know it's useless. If I thought there were any possible way people would actually give Rosa some semblance of respect, I'd still be trying to point out what makes her a good character that people never bother to pay attention to when they play the game. I know it's a lost cause, that she's doomed to be seen as a useless, vapid, empty waste of a character by people and nothing I say or do can change that. I at least have the freedom to curse the unfairness of it and say how much I wish people would get off the Rydia bandwagon long enough to give Rosa a brief glimpse and see that she actually DOES have good traits and she IS a meaningful character.
Rosa's seen as a complete failure. If I can't fix what's wrong, I can at least temporarily release the frustration by ranting about it.
Edit: Further to add to the point: it's unfair that everyone's all peachy keen about someone calling Rosa a dumb tart or a loose, two-timing power whore, but the second I say Rydia's not as emotionally strong as people say because she needed help getting over her fear of fire at Mt. Hobs, I'm chastised for it.
Last edited by *PaladinCecil*; 03-16-2008 at 05:34 PM.
Okay Cecil dude, first off it flatters me you were to quote my question in a thread made up entirely of joking around and take it so seriously.
Second, I enjoy many things that only a handful of people do.
Such as Paladins Quest and Mystic Quest. There are so few people who like that game, and Mystic quest is continually belittled as being on the the stupidest final fantasies. Doesn't make me enjoy it any less.
And For Xenosaga, everyone complains how the second writer ruined the story, while I disagree. Perhaps the original telling would have been better, but for the most part people hate on it.
Don't see me getting uppity about any of these things.
I wouldn't have minded it under different circumstances, like if I were a fan of, say, Aeris and that were said. But the critical difference is, Aeris actually has a fan community behind her. You could probably count the number of people that actually like Rosa on two hands, and your question just reiterates the bare truth of how people see her. If she WERE respected, would you have ever even thought to ask that question?Okay Cecil dude, first off it flatters me you were to quote my question in a thread made up entirely of joking around and take it so seriously.
Second, I enjoy many things that only a handful of people do.
Such as Paladins Quest and Mystic Quest. There are so few people who like that game, and Mystic quest is continually belittled as being on the the stupidest final fantasies. Doesn't make me enjoy it any less.
And For Xenosaga, everyone complains how the second writer ruined the story, while I disagree. Perhaps the original telling would have been better, but for the most part people hate on it.
Don't see me getting uppity about any of these things.
Regardless of if you meant it cruelly or in innocent fun, that it's thought of and posted at all while questions exactly like it never come up for Rydia highlights exactly what I'm talking about. Everything's one-sided. Questions about Rosa focus on her inferiority. Questions about Rydia focus on her superiority.
I know I sound ludicrously excessive and overblown in saying all this, that I'm making something out to be bigger than it really is. And you'd be right. A fun forum game about questions isn't a big deal. But I'm going on so long about it because hidden within what comes out when you play the game is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about here. It's so ingrained, you don't even think anything of the questions being asked, it's just what comes to mind naturally. Rydia is the best character in the game, Rosa is one of the worst (if not THE worst).
Edit: I'm not posting this to make you feel bad either. If THAT happens, I'm sorry. I'm posting because I'm ranting and pointing out what I see at the same time.
I guess I'll also let off some steam about Rosa's underratedness and Rydia's overratedness.
I'm also really sick all of the praise Rydia gets. Many Rydia fans bash on Rosa just so they can bloat up Rydia's ego even more. What even gets me more mad is people saying Rosa is ugly but saying Rydia is pretty and those people using fanart where Rydia's beauty is extremely exaggerated compared to what she looks like in the game. They make her hair so much longer than it actually is and make her much prettier than Square Enix really depicts her to the point where those fans practically made up their own character. It's one thing to lie about how pretty someone looks but using that to put down another character is uncalled for.
Also, using the argument that Rydia has a better personality than Rosa is also really biased. People always claim that Rosa is just a wuss and a damsel in distress while they say Rydia is so much more courageous than her. Rydia is also as much a wuss as Rosa seeing how she's afraid of even the thought of fire, she got knocked off the Fabulian boat first, and she starts crying over everyone that's died in the Eblana Cave. I'm not saying that Rosa is a better person than Rydia. They both are wusses in their own way and people who hate on Rosa and praise Rydia should acknowledge that fact.
One of the many reasons I like Rosa better than Rydia is because she's a more respectful and forgiving person than Rydia. Rosa doesn't mind the fact that Edge has feelings for her while Rydia hates him for it which shows that Rosa is a more tolerant and kind person than Rydia. Also, Rosa is really forgiving to those that offend her (like when Kain kidnapped her and almost had her sliced/crushed because he was jealous of Cecil) while Rydia isn't as forgiving (like when she attacked Cecil and Kain for unintentionally killing her mom). This shows that Rosa is a better character in some ways than Rydia. Also, unless the "before FFIV Rosa left Cecil for Kain" claim is proven to be true in FFIV DS I'm not even going to consider listening to that argument.
You've succeeded in convincing me to appreciate Rosa as a character more, though. Before reading this thread, I didn't really like or dislike her at all.
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