A simple, easy theory

[Qurange]

I'm pretty sure it said that only Balamb Junctioned GFs, as the reason Irvine remembered Edea from their childhood (and their childhood in general) is because he never Junctioned GFs as a part of his training, and didn't suffer the side effects of amnesia as a result of Junctioning GFs.

Edit: Holy smurf. Why.....

Right. Whether he learned it or not, he didn't do so anywhere near as much as a Balamb Garden student would have, and so he remembered. Selphie forgot because she kept up, even in Trabia, her GF Training.


As for SeeDs, they're /all/ in Balamb, because the game states that all SeeDs are stationed in Balamb. In Galbadia Garden, you have the option of transferring to Balamb to become a SeeD, or enlisting in an army after graduation. It's in the information files, mostly.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

[
Right. Whether he learned it or not, he didn't do so anywhere near as much as a Balamb Garden student would have, and so he remembered. Selphie forgot because she kept up, even in Trabia, her GF Training.


As for SeeDs, they're /all/ in Balamb, because the game states that all SeeDs are stationed in Balamb. In Galbadia Garden, you have the option of transferring to Balamb to become a SeeD, or enlisting in an army after graduation. It's in the information files, mostly.[/QUOTE]


Selphie stated that she junctioned with a GF wandering about in the field near Trabia. If you read the notes in the story, Balamb Garden is the only Garden that trains SeeDs in the use of GFs. Now, as I've seen the game play and know how Para-Magic is described and displayed, I assume that the Draw/Cast option is the only way that others can use magic in battle with being junctioned to a GF. It's the only way that makes sense to me because... Well, no one even KNOWS about a "Junction Machine" until they discover the mystery of Ellone.

For me the only logical means of anyone to use Para-Magic/Manipulate Ambient Energies (with out stocking) is to Draw and Cast because of the lack of a GF. And as for there are "NO" Trabia or Galbadian SeeDs... Selphie is a SeeD from Trabia, and Irvine is a SeeD from Galbadia... So there are SeeDs in those two Gardens. I mean, if their Gardens, why were there SeeDs there? They even said it in the game.

[Ryushikaze]

So, since only Balamb trains people in the usage of GFs- remember, Selphie was an special case- you propose that they only draw and cast, a process that requires the usage of a Junctioned GF.

So, you aren't actually offering a theory. In fact, you are offering the opposite of one, since you are blatantly contradicting what is a known element of the game, since as I mentioned already, Galbadian soldiers- and your party themselves- can hold stocked magic without the aid of GFs, and attempting to say that instead of having a machine which allows for limited emulation of GF ability, soldiers and human enemies can draw and cast magic 'somehow'.

Color me unconvinced.

And as I recall, no one was all that surprised at the existence of the a junction machine. Just that it emulated Ellone's powers.

And no. Selphie was not a Trabian SeeD. She became a SeeD after passing the test AT BALAMB. And Irvine was not a SeeD. Ever.

[Omnislash07]

Pharoh your theory doesnt work because the only way for the party to do anything with magic they are required to have a GF junctioned if they do not the only battle command available is their normal attack. So if the highly trained SeeDs are unable to Draw/Cast magic without the aid of a GF i highly doubt that anybody in the world has the ability.

Also Selphie clearly states when you first meet her that she transfered the Balamb Garden to become a SeeD so no she is not a Trabia SeeD and others have said that there are no Gabaldia SeeDs either.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

Odine said anyone can use Para-Magic. If junctioned with a GF they can use tremendous amounts of energies. Ya gotta stop look with your eyes. Open you mind. I mean, all you've done is thrash my theory and I haven't said anything to throw down your Junction machines, ( there was only one that Odine 'claimed' to have 'possibly' created in the undisclosed future, which meant that there weren't any junction machines around at the time). Just read the classroom notes again. I spent a LOOOOOT of time reading them because a lot of the things the people in this story did just didn't make any sense. But the in-depth details of the world they were in kept me interested enough to finish it.

Galbadia Garden- Another movable shelter like Balamb Garden and started by Cid as well. The headmaster is Martine, who was ignominiously dumped when Edea took over and the Garden was made into her own headquarters. The Garden's very into sports, with a mean ice rink and tennis court. The SeeDs there use giant flying machines (very mech-like) for battle. Irvine was sent here for starters, but wasn't there long before he was commissioned to Squall. The Garden was sent to attack Balamb Garden in an epic battle which tested Squall's leadership skills to the max.

[Ryushikaze]

Odine said anyone can use Para-Magic.

If anyone can use Para magic, then why can the party not do it without GFs? I agree with Odine. Anyone can use para magic. But it does not follow from the given evidence that they can do so unnasisted.

If junctioned with a GF they can use tremendous amounts of energies. Ya gotta stop look with your eyes. Open you mind. I mean, all you've done is thrash my theory and I haven't said anything to throw down your Junction machines, (:mad:

I don't have to support a theory to point out the flaws in yours.

there was only one that Odine 'claimed' to have 'possibly' created in the undisclosed future, which meant that there weren't any junction machines around at the time).

No, there was a junction machine ELLONE that was currently just a toy. That does not preclude the existence of other junction machines. Heck, it logically requires them, since JME, even as a toy, must be an incredibly complex machine that would have to have technological antecedents on which it would need to be based.

Just read the classroom notes again. I spent a LOOOOOT of time reading them because a lot of the things the people in this story did just didn't make any sense. But the in-depth details of the world they were in kept me interested enough to finish it.

Galbadia Garden- Another movable shelter like Balamb Garden and started by Cid as well. The headmaster is Martine, who was ignominiously dumped when Edea took over and the Garden was made into her own headquarters. The Garden's very into sports, with a mean ice rink and tennis court. The SeeDs there use giant flying machines (very mech-like) for battle. Irvine was sent here for starters, but wasn't there long before he was commissioned to Squall. The Garden was sent to attack Balamb Garden in an epic battle which tested Squall's leadership skills to the max.

THERE ARE NO SEEDS IN GALBADIA GARDEN! THE GALBADIAN MILITARY TOOK IT OVER! THOSE ARE GALBADIAN SOLDIERS USING GALBADIAN MILITARY TECHNOLOGY.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

If anyone can use Para magic, then why can the party not do it without GFs? I agree with Odine. Anyone can use para magic. But it does not follow from the given evidence that they can do so unnasisted.

You gotta get outta the box Jack. The question is... HOW DO GALBADIAN SeeDs use Para-magic? For me... from my perspective... Since game stated that everyone can use it... And only Balamb SeeDs are officially trained and use GFs then I assumed that the NATURAL ability is... Draw and Cast whatever's there. But with a GF, you can store the energies and make your bonded SeeD stronger. Probably why there's the most expensive and reputed... I just shared my view I didn't say (insert VOICE OF GOD SOUND FX) THIS IS THE WAY IT IS!!!!

I mean, for me it make's a lot of sense of what I'm seeing on the screen other than... oh that's just part of the game. Which, you can draw and cast before you get a GF, right? I forgot... it's been awhile and... Forgive me, I sold my game... Don't hit me!

The fact that Galbadian SeeDs and Galbadian Soldiers, plus Odine's notes that everyone can use Para-Magic is just how I see it. You only see the main characters use magic because that's how the game was designed, going with that Balamb Garden SeeDs are TRAINED with GFs.

And if you'll remember the "Clash of the Garden's" battle.... You can see... SeeDs using Para-Magic... Without a Guardian Force.



I don't have to support a theory to point out the flaws in yours.

If you're gonna stand there and tell me my theory is no better than yours then yes! You DO!

Check yourself there Jackie... I never once put down or refuted any of your theories. YOU have been putting mine down since I got here. And if you are going to do that while I CAN support my theory... Then you're gonna HAVE TO find support before you step all of me and my own views. Alright? I'm just sharing how I see thing and not putting down anyone's theories. Check yourself... Don't start no $#!+ with me...

there was only one that Odine 'claimed' to have 'possibly' created in the undisclosed future, which meant that there weren't any junction machines around at the time).

No, there was a junction machine ELLONE that was currently just a toy. That does not preclude the existence of other junction machines. Heck, it logically requires them, since JME, even as a toy, must be an incredibly complex machine that would have to have technological antecedents on which it would need to be based.

Just read the classroom notes again. I spent a LOOOOOT of time reading them because a lot of the things the people in this story did just didn't make any sense. But the in-depth details of the world they were in kept me interested enough to finish it.

Galbadia Garden- Another movable shelter like Balamb Garden and started by Cid as well. The headmaster is Martine, who was ignominiously dumped when Edea took over and the Garden was made into her own headquarters. The Garden's very into sports, with a mean ice rink and tennis court. The SeeDs there use giant flying machines (very mech-like) for battle. Irvine was sent here for starters, but wasn't there long before he was commissioned to Squall. The Garden was sent to attack Balamb Garden in an epic battle which tested Squall's leadership skills to the max.

THERE ARE NO SEEDS IN GALBADIA GARDEN! THE GALBADIAN MILITARY TOOK IT OVER! THOSE ARE GALBADIAN SOLDIERS USING GALBADIAN MILITARY TECHNOLOGY.[/QUOTE]

There were SeeDs in Galbadia Garden BEFORE Edea took over. And, again, if you read the story again, most Galbadian SeeDs immediately join the Galbadian Peacekeeping Forces after graduation instead of become freelancing mercenaries. It's in there. Take for example the two AWOL SeeDs found in Ellone's (Or was it Laguna's Wife's?) hometown.


Now, look, I don't know WTF is wrong with people like you... I make a single statement and y'all start yellin' at me and pissin' on me for no reason. Look back... I didn't put anything you say down, but you want me to agree with you. With your funky attitude... it ain't gon' happen Jack. Now let's get back to what we were talking about... aight?

[Ryushikaze]

You gotta get outta the box Jack. The question is... HOW DO GALBADIAN SeeDs use Para-magic? For me... from my perspective... Since game stated that everyone can use it... And only Balamb SeeDs are officially trained and use GFs then I assumed that the NATURAL ability is... Draw and Cast whatever's there.

Highly trained mercenaries cannot draw without GFs. Why should general military shmucks be able to unaided?

But with a GF, you can store the energies and make your bonded SeeD stronger. Probably why there's the most expensive and reputed... I just shared my view I didn't say (insert VOICE OF GOD SOUND FX) THIS IS THE WAY IT IS!!!!

If you state a theory, expect it to be dissected. Peer review is the way of science, and I endorse and participate fully.

I mean, for me it make's a lot of sense of what I'm seeing on the screen other than... oh that's just part of the game. Which, you can draw and cast before you get a GF, right? I forgot... it's been awhile and... Forgive me, I sold my game... Don't hit me!

No, you cannot. That's the critical error of your postulate.

The fact that Galbadian SeeDs and Galbadian Soldiers, plus Odine's notes that everyone can use Para-Magic is just how I see it. You only see the main characters use magic because that's how the game was designed, going with that Balamb Garden SeeDs are TRAINED with GFs.

Except we do see other people, like Galbadian and Estharian soldiers, using STOCKED magic in battle.

And if you'll remember the "Clash of the Garden's" battle.... You can see... SeeDs using Para-Magic... Without a Guardian Force.

Are they? Balamb students- who AREN'T NECESSARILY SeeDS- are trained with GFs.

If you're gonna stand there and tell me my theory is no better than yours then yes! You DO!

really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking.. I'M NOT. I'm not supporting any theory of my own, and I only support Qurange's in that it seems to fit. YOUR theory, meanwhile, is in disgreement with the game.

Check yourself there Jackie... I never once put down or refuted any of your theories.

Red Herring! My theories are not the issue here. YOUR theory IS!

YOU have been putting mine down since I got here. And if you are going to do that while I CAN support my theory... Then you're gonna HAVE TO find support before you step all of me and my own views. Alright? I'm just sharing how I see thing and not putting down anyone's theories. Check yourself... Don't start no $#!+ with me...

I see a flaw in a theory, I illuminate it. You'll note I corrected Qurange as well.
And no, I have no need to find support to highlight the flaws in your postulate.
And if this counts as [img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img] being started, well, bring it. I love a good debate, and I don't like to go too long without a chewtoy.

Concession accepted on the JME.

There were SeeDs in Galbadia Garden BEFORE Edea took over. And, again, if you read the story again, most Galbadian SeeDs immediately join the Galbadian Peacekeeping Forces after graduation instead of become freelancing mercenaries. It's in there. Take for example the two AWOL SeeDs found in Ellone's (Or was it Laguna's Wife's?) hometown.

You mean the AWOL Garden students? Attending Garden does not automatically a SeeD make. Seifer was never a Seed. Trabia and Galbadia did not make SeeDs, only SeeD candidates.

Now, look, I don't know WTF is wrong with people like you... I make a single statement and y'all start yellin' at me and pissin' on me for no reason. Look back... I didn't put anything you say down, but you want me to agree with you. With your funky attitude... it ain't gon' happen Jack. Now let's get back to what we were talking about... aight?

If you can't stand the heat, don't jump in the oven. When you state a postulate, it it is wrong, I will tell you. If you commit a logical fallacy, I will tell you. If you continue to do so, I will become brutal.

And we haven't actually strayed from the topic any more than you took it off.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

Y'know I'm not gonna do this... It's really just a waste of my time to argue with you.

Now I'm just stating a view just like yours. I let you post yours and get your support, not knock them down.

You and others, for some reason seem to be adamant on breaking down any other belief that doesn't fit your own... What're you people Christians?

Anyway... This is just the way I see on screen and I've had others that totally understand, I didn't say agree, what my theory is. And yes, a lot did agree with me. Because it was visually represented on the screen.

To me, Para-Magic is a natural thing and didn't require JMEs... Because even the Monsters had the natural ability to use Para-Magic.

The Cocktrice, would actuallly stun it's enemies with a powerful electrical charge, rendering their nervous system inert; while at the same time, that charge created a static attraction to the surrounding dust particles giving the "stoned" appearance.

See, I thought we were all just giving our pseudo-sci-fi theories and just that. Not knocking each other down. That's why I always write my posts in these discussions as if I'm talking from in the game. Others, still talk from the perspective of the end of a controller.

This is where I perspectives differ. I see your end, but you don't see mine. Outta the box, not in it. Inside looking out or outside looking in?
Same book, but different pages; no I think it's more of same topic but different authored books. Hunting season, but is it Duck Season or Rabbit Season?

Now what I'm gonna do is post my ideas and that's that. Peace.

[Ryushikaze]

Y'know I'm not gonna do this... It's really just a waste of my time to argue with you.

I agree. It is a waste of time to get into an argument with me. I tend to win.

Now I'm just stating a view just like yours. I let you post yours and get your support, not knock them down.

Claiming it is simply a point of view is not enough to save any theory from peer review.

You and others, for some reason seem to be adamant on breaking down any other belief that doesn't fit your own... What're you people Christians?

Heck no. I'm adamant on breaking down any belief which does not fit the facts. That includes a lot of the BS involved in religions.

Anyway... This is just the way I see on screen and I've had others that totally understand, I didn't say agree, what my theory is. And yes, a lot did agree with me. Because it was visually represented on the screen.

Ad populum. Even if a million people agree, a million people can be wrong. What matters is if your theory fits the facts.

To me, Para-Magic is a natural thing and didn't require JMEs... Because even the Monsters had the natural ability to use Para-Magic.

Red Herring. Your party cannot use para magic unassisted. What monsters can do is irrelevant to what humans can do.

The Cocktrice, would actuallly stun it's enemies with a powerful electrical charge, rendering their nervous system inert; while at the same time, that charge created a static attraction to the surrounding dust particles giving the "stoned" appearance.

Comes out of nowhere.

See, I thought we were all just giving our pseudo-sci-fi theories and just that. Not knocking each other down. That's why I always write my posts in these discussions as if I'm talking from in the game. Others, still talk from the perspective of the end of a controller.

You speak like that's a bad thing.

This is where I perspectives differ. I see your end, but you don't see mine. Outta the box, not in it. Inside looking out or outside looking in?
Same book, but different pages; no I think it's more of same topic but different authored books. Hunting season, but is it Duck Season or Rabbit Season?

Hunter Season. And I do see your end. That's why I see the flaws in your argument. Don't take it personally.

Now what I'm gonna do is post my ideas and that's that. Peace.

And what I'm gonna do is continue to point out errors in the theories of you and others.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

Dude... Chill out. It's a game. A Fantasy game. Neither one of us can claim to be "right" or "wrong"... That's I'm saying. I'm only posting my "theories" or "theoretical views". I'm not looking to knock off anyone else.

I mean, why are YOU so adamant of knocking anyone else's view/theories/whatever if it doesn't agree with yours. I've heard people theories on this subject before and some I didn't find plausiable and others I did... Either way, I never called any of them wrong or my own right...

You can't just call people 'wrong'... It's no longer a 'debate' anymore... It's a mud-slinging fest.

But you wanna make yourself "God", go ahead... Knock yourself out. I wouldn't want to detain your magnificence any longer...

And by the way...

"Heck no. I'm adamant on breaking down any belief which does not fit the facts."

Or anything that doesn't agree with your research. Dude,... It's fantasy. I thought this discussion would be handled like a "Star Trek/Star Wars Pseudo-Science" discussion. Apparently not. Neither one of us is right or wrong.

"Comes out of nowhere."

Hell, you 'pulled' JME out of nowhere. And I wrote Cocktrice bit YEARS ago on these very forums and yes... It met with the same adamant unprovoked resistance as now. I started posting and some like it and asked for more and then people kept bitchin' about what I was writing. It was just for fun. I still don't know why they got pissed... Just like you... Ah well...

"You speak like that's a bad thing."

No, but you speak like MY ideas are a bad thing. Like I'll start an evil corruptive view of a faith. I understand your POV, but you totally diss mine. And anyone else's for that matter. Aight, so I don't believe your theory of JME... You go ape-spit and I just shrug. You start spittin' on me and I kick your ass... Er... sorry. Let's not go there... We're civilized people right?


"Hunter Season. And I do see your end. That's why I see the flaws in your argument. Don't take it personally."

Their not "flaws"... Their just discrepencies with your own view of things. Like I have discrpencies with the JME, but I haven't said "no".


"And what I'm gonna do is continue to point out errors in the theories of you and others."

Dude, if you wrote the story or had any part in the development of the game... Then you might be in position to do so... But... You're not.
You might as well stop acting like you're GOD or something... Oooh! Maybe the Sorceress Power was transferred unto you... Beware the Mighty Sorceress/Sorceror...Ryushikaze. Hey, that sounds kinda cool...
So... Anyone else got another theory or perspective of Para-Magic? I do...

[Ryushikaze]

Dude... Chill out. It's a game. A Fantasy game. Neither one of us can claim to be "right" or "wrong"... That's I'm saying. I'm only posting my "theories" or "theoretical views". I'm not looking to knock off anyone else.

Actually, there is such a thing as 'more right' and 'less right', even in a fantasy game. And if your postulate does not fit in with what is known about the game, it is 'less right' than one that does.

I mean, why are YOU so adamant of knocking anyone else's view/theories/whatever if it doesn't agree with yours. I've heard people theories on this subject before and some I didn't find plausiable and others I did... Either way, I never called any of them wrong or my own right...

If a theory does not fit the facts, then it needs to be corrected. Your theory does not fit the facts.

You can't just call people 'wrong'... It's no longer a 'debate' anymore... It's a mud-slinging fest.

You can call people wrong in a debate.
Of course, you act like mud slinging and debating are mutually exclusive. As long as you're not making ad homs, you can sling as much mud as you like if your argument is valid.

[quote]But you wanna make yourself "God", go ahead... Knock yourself out. I wouldn't want to detain your magnificence any longer...

Bah. Godhood is overrated.

Or anything that doesn't agree with your research. Dude,... It's fantasy. I thought this discussion would be handled like a "Star Trek/Star Wars Pseudo-Science" discussion. Apparently not. Neither one of us is right or wrong.

This IS being handled like a Trek/Wars discussion. Look into a little place called Stardestroyer.net

Hell, you 'pulled' JME out of nowhere.

No. It at least has empirical in game support from when Doc Odine was discussing it.

And I wrote Cocktrice bit YEARS ago on these very forums and yes... It met with the same adamant unprovoked resistance as now. I started posting and some like it and asked for more and then people kept bitchin' about what I was writing. It was just for fun. I still don't know why they got pissed... Just like you... Ah well...

Well, for one, you stated a theory. You provided jack all for support for it. People who like to treat this like actual science is treated- yes, they still do it for fun- like for points to be supported, preferrably with abundant evidence. They may also have disliked it because it is inconsistent with other methods of being stoned which exist within the game.
And trust me. I'm not pissed.

No, but you speak like MY ideas are a bad thing. Like I'll start an evil corruptive view of a faith. I understand your POV, but you totally diss mine. And anyone else's for that matter. Aight, so I don't believe your theory of JME... You go ape-spit and I just shrug. You start spittin' on me and I kick your ass... Er... sorry. Let's not go there... We're civilized people right?

I did not go ape[img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img] over JME, and I'm curious what led you to that conclusion. The only thing resembling ape[img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img] in this thread was when I got irritated with you over the SeeD issue, but that's because you refused to listen after being told numerous times that SeeDs are only located at Balamb.

Their not "flaws"... Their just discrepencies with your own view of things. Like I have discrpencies with the JME, but I haven't said "no".

They are discrepancies with the game itself. They are flaws.
And if you think there are discrepancies with JME, say what they are.

Dude, if you wrote the story or had any part in the development of the game... Then you might be in position to do so... But... You're not. :p

I don't have to have written the game to look at it, look at your theory, and point out the discrepancies between them. Now if you think there are issues with what I say, feel free to address them. But please, support your position.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

Before I start, I would like to let everyone know that it has been a long time since I played the game so I apologize and concede about Balamb Garden is where SeeDs are trained/graduated. I think I understand now... Understand I'm proving anything, I'm just sharing what I believe because it made it more fun as I drudged through this game... Making feel a 'part' of it, y'know? Kinda like sharing my summer vacation through story because you weren't there.

I believe that Para-Magic is the manipulation of various ambient energies. Just like scientists, SeeDs study the molecular make up of these energies and use them to various effects such as 1 part Oxygen and 2 parts Hydrogen make up water which both are ambient even within our own world. Just like the X-Man "Iceman" can not make ice without moisture and fellow X-Man "Storm" manipulates weather she can not create weather and must have suffient elements for the desired effects.

I believe this works also with the SeeDs. Fire, is basically the heat air, which can be made by friction and feed off ambient air. Hence the brief plume of fire.

I also believe that SeeDs are highly trained telepaths and telekinetics. Hence Protect, and Float for example involves telekenisis; while Quake, Shell involve telepathy.

I believe that Para-Magic is an natural ability among all characters of FFVIII. For me this explains the use of Para-Magic by Rinoa, Irvine, Galbadian Soldiers, and Monsters.

I think that the Draw/Cast method is how Para-Magic works with non-junctioned beings because some enemies do draw from the player characters (PC), if I remember correctly.

All I'm saying is I got my views and can back them or not same as you. You can't back up the JME theory no more than I can the Draw/Cast.

So that's it... That's why believe. And I'm not going to refute the JME theory... Theoretically, it would be endlessly pointless.

Thank you and good night.

[Zeromus_X]

Well, yes, they can, if they use evidence from the game. It's pretty simple, really.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

Well, yes, they can, if they use evidence from the game. It's pretty simple, really.

I do too.

Aight lemme put it like this... When you're fighting you have the option to draw, stock, and cast.

If you choose an enemy and you'll see there are a number of spells you can either draw, stock, or immediately Cast at that enemy...

That's how I see the Galbadian Soldier side of the battle. Their just casting whatever they can on from the SeeDs and ambient energies... That's it. Now, I know this has as much support as the JME, but just sharing a viewpoint.