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Thread: Promise Land

  1. #31
    Nerfed in Continuum Shift Recognized Member Zeromus_X's Avatar
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    No, it isn't that long.

    Well, okay then. I'd really like something from the creators though, until then, I'll just be a bit skeptical.

  2. #32
    Xurts's Avatar
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    There is a section on the Promised Land in the FF7 Ultimania Omega FAQ, also. This one is pretty short.

    Quote Originally Posted by FF7 Ultimania Omega FAQ
    **The Ancients Relation 1: The Promised Land** (005.2A)
    The aim of the Cetra was to find the land where supreme happiness awaited.
    Passed down as an oral tradition, what the land of supreme happiness is
    supposed to be was never concretely identified.

    The Shin-Ra interpreted that a land of supreme happiness must be somewhere where they could find abundant mako [as it would make them even more wealthy], and wished to use an Ancient to help them find it, while Sephiroth considered the Promised Land to be a place in which he could draw the power to use the Black Materia in his aim to become a "god." Though both of them had different goals, they both got the idea that the Northern Crater was the place they were looking for.

    The theory of one of the Planet Life scholars [in Cosmo Canyon] is that the
    Cetra's mission to find the land of supreme happiness is equivalent to the
    peaceful sleep [of dying and returning to the Planet] (a line delivered [in
    the game]). According to this theory, the Lifestream -- to which everyone
    returns -- is itself the Promised Land, but this is not something that one can
    assert to be true for everyone. Therefore, it is in each person's hands to
    take their own interpretation.

    (Accompanying screenshot caption)
    For one with the conception that the Promised Land is a place where energy
    swells up from inside the sleeping earth, the Northern Crater -- where the
    Lifestream breathes forth -- may be it.

    ------------------------
    [Analysis: Here, we're pretty much told that there's no correct take on what
    the Promised Land is, and that it could be any number of different things for
    any number of different people. It can even be the same thing that another
    person would consider the Promised Land, but for entirely different reasons.
    Sephiroth and Shin-Ra both considered the Northern Crater to be the Promised Land; Sephiroth because he knew he could use the energy there to help him use the Black Materia in his plans to become a "god," and Shin-Ra because they saw it as a land where "the abundant Mako will just come out on its own," allowing them to bypass the costly maintenance of mako reactors and just reap profits.

    The basic conclusion is that there is no conclusion: the Promised Land is not one thing, and is something specific to each individual. This idea is brought up again in the "Maiden who Travels the Planet" novella at the back of the Ultimania Omega, in which Aerith refers to the Lifestream as the Cetra's
    Promised Land, while the Northern Crater is referred to as Sephiroth's Promised Land.]
    ------------------------
    I think that makes it pretty clear on what Square intended it to be.
    Last edited by Xurts; 07-27-2006 at 08:13 AM.

  3. #33

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    I think this is further enhanced by the comment by, Nomura, was it? It's been awhile, might have been Nojima, but I'm pretty sure it was Nomura. Anyways, he has gone on record saying that he thought that Midgar was the promised land for awhile based on Cloud's statements in the crater.

    Which, of course, it very well might be. For Cloud, the promised land could be where he can be with the one he loves, where she lives.

    And yes, I mean Tifa. After the comments in Reunion files, I refuse to hedge any longer.

  4. #34
    loinharte's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Squall of SeeD's FF7 FAQ:
    13) -The Promised Land Revealed-

    "What is the Promised Land?" The great question of Final Fantasy VII's mythos.
    The question that players, in-game characters, and game developers have sought
    an answer for. Is the Promised Land the Northern Crater, a land filled with
    rising Spirit Energy, as Shin-Ra believed the Promised Land to be? Or is it
    Midgar, the technological behemoth of metal and highways where Shin-Ra held
    its seat of power for decades, as the game's Character Designer, Tetsuya
    Nomura, once said he believed it to be? Is it the Lifestream itself, the great
    river of Spirit Energy from which all life on the Planet Gaia springs? Or is
    it something which we find within ourselves? Here, I will seek to answer the
    great question.

    The answer to all of the questions above is this: Yes. Yes, the Northern
    Crater IS the Promised Land. Yes, Midgar IS the Promised Land. Yes, the
    Lifestream IS the Promised Land. Yes, the Promised Land IS a peace which one
    finds within theirself. But the answer to the above questions is not "Yes" for
    everyone. For many, the answer to all these questions may be "No." The
    Promised Land is something personal for every individual. Someone can't tell
    another individual what the Promised Land is. The Promised Land isn't the same
    for every person. It is whatever grants a person a sense of completion, a
    sense of supreme joy and happiness. For one person, this may be their romantic
    partner; for another, it may be their children; for another, it may be money;
    for yet another, it may be achieving, acquiring, or learning any number of
    different things.

    We find two indications in-game of the Promised Land being something personal.
    The first comes from Aerith when AVALANCHE has been jailed in the Shin-Ra
    headquarters, and the second comes from Elder Hargo of Cosmo Canyon. Aerith
    says that her mother's spirit has told her that one day she would leave Midgar
    and find HER Promised Land:

    Aerith
    "Someday I'll get out of Midgar... Speak with the Planet and find my
    Promised Land."
    "...That's what mom said."
    "I thought I would stop hearing her voice as I grew up, but...."


    As for Elder Hargo, he first states that he believes there is no one thing
    called the Promised Land. He then goes on to describe what he believes to have
    been the Promised Land for the Cetra, citing them rejoining with the Planet
    (the Lifestream) at the time of their deaths as being the fulfillment of their
    journeys and the acquisition of their supreme happiness:

    "There is no one place called the Promised Land. That is what I believe. No
    no, it does exist. Hmmm... You can say that too. In other words, it doesn't
    exist for us, but it did for the Ancients. The Promised Land is the resting
    place of the Ancients. The life of the Ancients is one continuous journey. A
    journey to grow trees and plants, produce animals, and raise mako energy.
    Their harsh journeys continued throughout their lives... The place they return
    to after their long journey... Their burial land is the Promised Land. Huh?
    Supreme happiness? I believe that, for the Ancients, it was the moment that
    they were able to return to their planet. At that moment they were released
    from their fate, and gained their supreme happiness..."


    The Promised Land for the Ancients was the Lifestream. This does not
    necessarily hold true for everyone, however.

    To summarize things thus far, the Promised Land is not the same for everyone.
    It may be anything for anyone, but it is whatever gives that person supreme
    joy, whatever grants them fulfillment. Considering that people are quite
    possibly as varied in desires as there are things to be desired, there may be
    a limitless number of Promised Lands, a different one for every person that
    one sees.

    Having now established what the Promised Land is, or -- more accurately --
    what the Promised LANDS are, let us now examine how one finds this place of
    ultimate joy. According to Aerith, the location of the Promised Land is not
    something one will know until they've found it:

    Aerith
    "...You don't 'know' where the Promised Land of the Ancients is."
    "You search and travel, until you feel it. Like you just know,
    '...this is the Promised Land.'"


    What's interesting to note about this is that Aerith only says that one
    doesn't know WHERE their Promised Land is. To put it another way, they don't
    know HOW TO FIND it, though they may know full well WHAT it is for them. To
    give an example, one whose Promised Land is fulfilling their desire to have a
    romantic partner that they will love wholeheartedly and who will love them
    back wholeheartedly may know that this is their ultimate desire, yet they may
    not know at all how to achieve it. This is true of many people who will find
    fulfillment in all-consuming romantic love, and also true of many others who
    know what their ultimate desire is. According to Aerith, they all would
    "search and search" until they just felt it and KNEW that they had found their
    Promised Land, their ultimate fulfillment.

    Another side to the difficulty in knowing where/how to find one's Promised
    Land is the hardships that they most likely will face in searching for it.
    Using again the example of one who seeks all-consuming romantic love, they may
    find that the path to this is not an easy one. They will likely face a great
    deal of emotional sorrow and hardship before they find this ultimate
    happiness. Quite often, those who seek this particular brand of fulfillment
    will find themselves becoming "desperate for love" as such folks are often
    described, possibly resorting to any number of means by which to find this
    love, whether it is singles clubs, love match websites, or ads in the
    Personals section of their local newspaper. To clarify this particular point,'
    a Promised Land will not be achieved save by overcoming hardship. This is
    directly connected to the game's theme of building off of the concept of the
    Sephiroth of Jewish mysticism.

    In the Kabbalah, it's stated that man is separated from God by the sin of the
    world, and the only way he can return to God is by navigating the paths of the
    Sephiroth. The Sephiroth, also known as the "Tree of Life," is a spiritual
    grid that represents the 10 divine emanations of God as projected into the
    mortal world. These 10 aspects of God are comprised of 22 paths based in seven
    realms of mortal existance. Along each path, a soul must overcome obstacles to
    reach the next node, gaining a further understanding of itself and more of its
    potential -- yet still limited -- understanding of God. If it is triumphant
    throughout the life of its time as a mortal, it will gain a full understanding
    of itself and as great an understanding of God as is possible for a mortal
    being. The soul attains this great understanding when it reaches the central
    node on the grid, the Tifaret (also spelled as "Tipharet," "Tiferet," and
    "Tipheret"). From here, the soul will ascend to the seventh and highest realm
    of conscious mortal existance, where it gains full understanding of itself and
    may rejoin with God.

    Just as an individual following the paths of the Sephiroth and seeking their
    way back to God must overcome obstacles along the paths in order to achieve
    this, so too must one do so in seeking their Promised Land. This is
    demonstrated in-game by the Cetra's journey. It is described as a "harsh, hard
    journey" at the end of which they would find their Promised Land:

    Sephiroth
    "This Planet originally belonged to the Cetra. Cetra was a
    itinerant race. They would migrate in, settle the Planet, then move on..."
    "At the end of their harsh, hard journey, they would find the
    Promised Land and supreme happiness."


    Referring back to Elder Hargo's comments on the Cetra, again, he states that
    the "harsh, hard journey" of the Cetra ended when they were allowed to rejoin
    with the Lifestream:

    "The life of the Ancients is one continuous journey. A journey to grow trees
    and plants, produce animals, and raise mako energy. Their harsh journeys
    continued throughout their lives... The place they return to after their long
    journey... Their burial land is the Promised Land. Huh? Supreme happiness? I
    believe that, for the Ancients, it was the moment that they were able to
    return to their planet. At that moment they were released from their fate, and
    gained their supreme happiness..."


    We can connect the matter of rejoining with the Lifestream to the matter of
    rejoining with the Promised Land in the case of the Cetra based on what Aerith
    says concerning the Cetra's origins, and what Bugenhagen says concerning
    Spirit Energy and the cycle of rebirth in Final Fantasy VII:

    (Aerith in the Shin-Ra headquarters)
    Aerith
    "All I know is..."
    "The Cetra were born from the Planet, speak with the Planet, and
    unlock the Planet."
    "And....... then......"
    "The Cetra will return to the Promised Land. A land that promises
    supreme happiness."


    (Bugenhagen in Cosmo Canyon)
    Bugenhagen
    "Well, let's get to the subject."
    "Eventually... all humans die. What happens to them after they die?"
    "The body decomposes, and returns to the Planet. That much everyone
    knows. What about their consciousness, their hearts and their
    souls?"
    "The soul too returns to the Planet."
    "And not only those of humans, but everything on this Planet. In
    fact, all living things in the universe, are the same."

    Bugenhagen
    "The spirits that return to the Planet, merge with one another and
    roam the Planet."
    "They roam, converge, and divide, becoming a swell, called the
    'Lifestream'."
    "Lifestream.... In other words, a path of energy of the souls roaming
    the Planet."

    Bugenhagen
    "'Spirit Energy' is a word that you should never forget."
    "A new life... children are blessed with Spirit energy and are
    brought into the world."
    "Then, the time comes when they die and once again return to the
    Planet..."


    While this brings up the question of why the journey to DIE is made so
    difficult for the Cetra, there may have been any number of cultural
    assumptions amongst the Cetra that led them to feel that they must do their
    best to help cultivate life on the Planet in order to rejoin with the
    Lifestream, or perhaps it was a sense of duty that drove them in such a
    regard. The game is, sadly, unclear on this matter, nor are hints provided.
    For all we're made aware, there may have been a cultural assumption amongst
    the Cetra that they felt they would only be worthy of the return to the
    Lifestream by helping to cultivate life on the Planet's surface. Whatever the
    reason, this journey of the Cetra along the paths of the Sephiroth to reach
    their own personal Promised Land was a journey to the Lifestream, made more
    difficult for them than it was for other forms of life due to it being the
    fulfillment of self for these Ancients.

    What we can conclude from all this is that the Promised Land is not the same
    thing for everyone, nor is there any means by which an individual can
    determine HOW to find their personal Promised Land. They simply must seek it
    out, and when they find it, they will just KNOW they have found it. We can
    also conclude that -- whatever an individual's journey may be for -- the path
    to one's Promised Land will be made harsh for the sake of them overcoming
    obstacles in order to reach it. While one individual may be able to easily
    attain something that is not very special to them, for another, that is their
    Promised Land and it will be a harsh path, indeed, before they can acquire it.

    As for why this may be, it is likely to provide the Spirit Energy of the
    individual with the necessity to undergo experiences, forming memories and
    maturing as a result. All this is done so that when the Spirit Energy's host
    body dies and the Spirit Energy returns to the Lifestream, it will be able to
    provide memories/experiences for the Lifestream as a whole to learn from and
    grow. We know that it is these memories and experiences that provide the
    Lifestream with the ability to live and grow based on a statement made in the
    first Final Fantasy film, Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within:

    (Aki Ross, quoting Dr. Sid's journal)
    "All life is born of Gaia and each life has a spirit. Each new spirit is
    housed in a physical body. ...Through their experiences on Earth each spirit
    matures and grows. When the physical body dies the mature spirit enriched by
    its life on Earth returns to Gaia bringing with it the experiences, enabling
    Gaia to live and grow."

    The implications of the matter would suggest that limits are placed on an
    individual's abilities, the situations they're placed in, or both, so as to
    provide them with the NECESSITY to struggle for their ultimate achievement of
    self.

    In conclusion, the Promised Land is a reality, and it is a different reality
    for different people. It is also the culmination of their effort and the
    hardships that they must face and overcome. These are hardships that they will
    absolutely be required to deal with in order to mature as an individual and
    reach their Promised Land, in so doing, ensuring that they will provide the
    lifecycle as a whole with the means by which to grow.
    toooo loonngg

    anyway the i think that regular people unlike myself (cause im cetra) have ther own lifestream

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  5. #35
    Xurts's Avatar
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    Lol. Definately untrue.

  6. #36
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    y i think there is.......sorry the planet started talkin to me again
    what was i talkin about
    o ya
    i have no proof but... tha planet say there is. y dont u think so

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  7. #37
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    Why would I think so? There is only 1 Lifestream. Read The Maiden who Travels the Planet. That should make it pretty clear.

  8. #38

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    Let's see... you aren't Cetra. Cetra is almost assuredly more about mindset than birthright, given that Cetra and Human are the same species- Hojo thinks differently, but Hojo is an insane crackpot who thinks you can succesfully breed extra genus just by humping.

    Oh, and yes, there's only ONE Lifestream per planet. The only known instances of dual lifestreams were Spirits Within and FF9, and both were about the second, foreign one infringing on the first.

  9. #39
    Gobbledygook! Recognized Member Christmas's Avatar
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    The Promised Land is actually the Honey Bee Inn.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xurts
    Why would I think so? There is only 1 Lifestream. Read The Maiden who Travels the Planet. That should make it pretty clear.
    i see that is a good explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryushikaze
    Let's see... you aren't Cetra
    yes i am, your just jealous.

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  11. #41

  12. #42
    loinharte's Avatar
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    maybe i should create a fanclub
    any ideas of haw to create one

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  13. #43

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    A fanclub does not evidence make. Demonstrating known powers of the cetra would. Nothing major. A Seal Evil would suffice.

  14. #44
    loinharte's Avatar
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    i killed sephiroth and then i killed cloud for bein a wineing bitsh

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  15. #45
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    Omni Odin (Sargatanas)

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    I always thought of the Promised Land looking like that place in the end of Final Fantasy VIII, that Squall and Rinoa are in with the flowers
    Final Fantasies defeated
    Playing

    I, II, III, IV, IVAY, V, VI, VII, VIIDoC, VIICC , VIII, Tactics, TA, TA2, IX, X, X-2, XI, XII, XII:RW, XIII, XIII-2, XIII:LR, XIV, Type-0, XV

    FavoriteToLeastFavorite : VII>X>Tactics>IX>IV>VIII>XV>VI>XII>X-2>XIII>TA2>V>XIII-2>III>I>LR:FFXIII>II

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