Once again, The FF7 Romance Debate.

[Dragon Mage]

in the church cum olympic swimming pool (an improvement if you ask me).

lol, I agree.

[Aralith]

I believe that the creators wanted Cloud and Tifa to be together.

I agree. If the creators wanted Aerith to be with Cloud why didn't they just let her lives and let tifa die instead?

Well, there's actually a reason that Aerith died. And that would be because she was the last remaining Ancient and therefore the only one of the party members who could exert control over the Lifestream in death. You remember at the end of the game when Holy was actually helping Meteor more than it was hindering it and everything seemed lost. And then the Lifestream came bubbling out of the ground and was headed towards Meteor and Aerith's face is visible for a brief moment just before the credits start to roll.

Well, we know that whatever the Lifestream did, it saved the Planet. We also know that the Lifestream was caused by Aerith. This same effect is visible in AC when the Lifestream comes gushing out of the ground in the church towards the end. So, Aerith needed to die, else the world would have been destroyed by Meteor. That is why the story worked out the way it did. Aerith's death had nothing to do with who Cloud did or didn't love.

[Pure Aerisbeauty7]

Well, I believe that Aerith was the one whom Cloud had (or should have) really fallen in love with. I say should have because of the fact that depending on how one plays the game, they can effect the affection values for each character. I admit that I have not had the chance to take even Tifa on a date in the game (would have but currently my copy of VII is lent out to someone) and therefore only have the game script to give me knowledge of the other dates.

While it is entirely possible to also date Yuffie and even Barret (never understood that) I do not believe that they are true candidates for the following reason. Cloud never really shows any interest in Yuffie, even when you take her out that she and Cloud don't really seem to have a connection (despite the fact that she's the only one that you can kiss) as she acts hyper like her normal self and I just can't see Cloud with that. He's much to calm for her.

Then the obvious reason that I Cloud just wouldn't be with Barret because he's not gay. Even on the "date" they don't really act at all like it's a date. More just like two friends that just weren't used to being able to talk alone.

So, now it's pretty much down to just Tifa and Aerith. So, now I'm going to examine the reasons why those two may or may not be good for Cloud.

Aerith is good for Cloud for several reasons. She is kind-hearted, self-sacrificing, and very strong-minded. She had a connection with Cloud on a very deep level, one that even Tifa could never seem to find. When Aerith and Cloud went on a date, she said, "I want to meet the real you." Now, this is pretty much the only way that this line could have been translated, but in Japanese this phrase has a much deeper meaning to it. To meet someone is to know their soul in a very deep and connecting way. This is pretty clear proof that at least Aerith had feelings for Cloud, even if he didn't return them (which I contend that he did).

Now, there are several things that would point to Aerith and Cloud not being together as well, which (for the sake of remaining unbiased) I will discuss as well. One of these is the so-called "innocence" of Aerith. This is so not true. Aerith is far from innocent, everything from her comments about Tifa and Cloud to trying to swindle some guys out of a good deal of money would prove this. Another point is that Aerith has not known Cloud nearly as long as Tifa has.

Now, there are also many reasons why Tifa and Cloud would be good together. They have known each other since childhood and Cloud pretty much adored Tifa then. Also, Tifa has a much more self-sacrificing trait than Aerith. She definitely cares for Cloud, because she always seems to be hurt when Aerith makes the careless comments about Tifa and Cloud that I spoke of earlier.

There are also reasons why Tifa and Cloud shouldn't be together. Like I said earlier, Cloud almost glamorized Tifa, while she seemed to ignore him (we found this out in Cloud's memory in the lifestream) and this may have turned her off for a while. They weren't nearly the childhood friends they thought they were in the beginning. Tifa obviously didn't know Cloud well enough to know if she should tell him the truth about the Nibelheim incident, and ended up not telling him, which in the end nearly destroyed him.

Overall, the only two true contenders for Cloud's love are Tifa and Aerith, and with the evidence it becomes more a matter of interpretation and gameplay that decides who Cloud gives his heart to. I for one prefer Aerith over Tifa just because of my preferences and such, and therefore I believe that it should be Cloud and Aerith, though I believe that those who think it's Cloud and Tifa are just as justified as I am in their beliefs.

I agree.

[Ryushikaze]

I believe that the creators wanted Cloud and Tifa to be together.

I agree. If the creators wanted Aerith to be with Cloud why didn't they just let her lives and let tifa die instead?

Well, there's actually a reason that Aerith died. And that would be because she was the last remaining Ancient and therefore the only one of the party members who could exert control over the Lifestream in death. You remember at the end of the game when Holy was actually helping Meteor more than it was hindering it and everything seemed lost. And then the Lifestream came bubbling out of the ground and was headed towards Meteor and Aerith's face is visible for a brief moment just before the credits start to roll.

Well, we know that whatever the Lifestream did, it saved the Planet. We also know that the Lifestream was caused by Aerith. This same effect is visible in AC when the Lifestream comes gushing out of the ground in the church towards the end. So, Aerith needed to die, else the world would have been destroyed by Meteor. That is why the story worked out the way it did. Aerith's death had nothing to do with who Cloud did or didn't love.

Technically, it was caused by the 'souls' of the dead rallying together to move the lifestream via their wills, but Aerith was the one who said "push".

And I agree, Aerith's death has nothing to do with who Cloud loves. Very little of the plot does, since it's ancillary to Cloud discovering himself.

I agree.:)

Wow... Y'know, maybe I should have mentioned this to start, but please, no parroting. Add to the discussion, don't just echo others.

As for the essay, it's on hiatus. I got up to Wall Market and lost both time and inclination. I can post my conclusions on Cloud's childhood, which is largely self contained, if anyone's interested.

[Anniexo]

I think Tifa should be Clouds love cus when it comes to the date part and you get tifa and your on the ride i'm sure Tifa tries to tell cloud she loves him but she can't get the words out also at the end of disk two you see them sitting out side migar and the look like two lovers to me

[Dragon Mage]

I always thought it was the planet that tried to protect itself by using the lifestream.

Besides it's not like Aeris is missing out on anything by being dead. She's pretty lively for a dead person.

[feioncastor]

Cloud and Tifa were too "chummy" to be lovers. They grew up together. Tifa was prettymuch a guy to Cloud. She wasn't dainty or delicate, like Aeris. She was manly and buff. I think that she may have had some kind of crush on him, though. She said all that stuff about wanting her hero to come save her. But as they grew up, they seem to have grown into more mature friends, and ditched off the childish teenage crushes they held onto before.

I don't know about Cloud and Aeris being in love, either. Though it certainly seems like it. His compensation for protecting her is that she has to go out with him. And there's other things I can't recall that suggest the idea.

Truthfully, I was kinda hoping that Cloud would end up with Barret. That would be hot.

[Dragon Mage]

Tifa was prettymuch a guy to Cloud. She wasn't dainty or delicate, like Aeris. She was manly and buff.

Just because a woman can kick some serious as* doesn't mean she's a guy or to manly to be liked by a guy. Dainty and delicate people break easily; as Sephiroth showed us so well.

[Aralith]

Dainty and delicate people break easily; as Sephiroth showed us so well.

Ouch. That was a bit of a low blow.

Anyways, can you provide a link to that Ryushikaze, because I have no idea what hiatus is or how to access it. I Googled it and found nothing that would suggest it is an information sharing site or any kind of thing where you could post something. So please provide a link, because I would most certainly like to read that.

Edit: Yeah, I was kind of retarded when I wrote this. It was 5:00 in the morning and I hadn't had much sleep. So, forgive me for this absolutely stupid thing that I did. I was walking to Music Theory this morning when I suddenly realized what it was you meant by "hiatus" Ryushikaze. So yeah, this is probably the most retarded thing I have ever done. Excuse me while I go shoot myself.

[Ryushikaze]

Cloud and Tifa were too "chummy" to be lovers. They grew up together.

Yes, and childhood friends becoming lovers is a time worn cliche. How does them being chummy and childhood friends preclude their romance?

Tifa was prettymuch a guy to Cloud.

Prove it, with evidence, or don't make the claim.

She wasn't dainty or delicate, like Aeris.

She was arguably more dainty than Aerith, who practically bum rushed her way through social interaction.

She was manly and buff.

Are we even talking about the same Tifa here?

I think that she may have had some kind of crush on him, though.

Ya think?

She said all that stuff about wanting her hero to come save her. But as they grew up, they seem to have grown into more mature friends, and ditched off the childish teenage crushes they held onto before.

Except Tifa said she started becoming even more interested after he had gone, and they never had a chance to "grow" into more mature friends, seeing as they were apart for two and then five years.

I don't know about Cloud and Aeris being in love, either. Though it certainly seems like it. His compensation for protecting her is that she has to go out with him.

She offered that service, and he didn't care. Besides, it's unlikely he cares about getting payed to babysit a flowergirl home (recall, this was before he knew about the danger and it is an order of magnitude below the armed assault and sabotage of a guarded and running nuclear power plant).

And there's other things I can't recall that suggest the idea.

Specific examples or don't even bother. Vague handwavey claims do not contribute and are unwelcome.

Truthfully, I was kinda hoping that Cloud would end up with Barret. That would be hot.

Except this thread is about determining via suspension of disbelief who, if anyone, Cloud's affections lie with. Not fangirl druthers.

[Dragon Mage]

Ouch. That was a bit of a low blow.

No offense meant to you, of course. Just trying to tell feioncastor that dainty and delicate don't really help you much when you're trying to save the world.

[TifaxCloud]

Well, there's actually a reason that Aerith died. And that would be because she was the last remaining Ancient and therefore the only one of the party members who could exert control over the Lifestream in death. You remember at the end of the game when Holy was actually helping Meteor more than it was hindering it and everything seemed lost. And then the Lifestream came bubbling out of the ground and was headed towards Meteor and Aerith's face is visible for a brief moment just before the credits start to roll.

Well, we know that whatever the Lifestream did, it saved the Planet. We also know that the Lifestream was caused by Aerith. This same effect is visible in AC when the Lifestream comes gushing out of the ground in the church towards the end. So, Aerith needed to die, else the world would have been destroyed by Meteor. That is why the story worked out the way it did. Aerith's death had nothing to do with who Cloud did or didn't love.

In that case, why didn't they just let Tifa die as well or maybe Cloud so that Tifa would be all alone..? Try answering that one..!

[Levian]

Hi, please don't revive old threads. This one is almost 2 months old. The best thing to do when you have a question you'd like to ask is PM'ing the member you want to ask. If the question is not to a certain person you could always make a topic out of it and make a new thread. Thanks.