Is Advent Children REALLY better then SW?

[No.78]

Sprits within was barely a final fantasy, it should've just been a film called "Spirits Within". That's it. I reckon the only reason people even put final fantasy in it's name was to get people to watch it...
I prefer AC to SW, but that's cos I love good fighting scenes.

[Vaincast]

I think AC was like ten times better than Spirits Within. Spirits Within had nothing to do with Final Fantasy. It should not have been called Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within.

That's exactly what I needed to hear from someone.

[Materia Hunter Yuffie]

Advent Children is much better then The Spirits Within

[Ishin Ookami]

Sprits within was barely a final fantasy, it should've just been a film called "Spirits Within". That's it. I reckon the only reason people even put final fantasy in it's name was to get people to watch it...
I prefer AC to SW, but that's cos I love good fighting scenes.

First of all, if you go by that definition then none of the final fantasy's are final fantasy, because 97% of the stories share little to no connection with one another. So I'd like to know what you mean when you can say it wasn't final fantasy.


Second of all, I like the action scenes in SW better then AC. The first SW action scene gets off with the statue of the virgin mary getting it's head blasted off in a church, which kinda tells you there is little to nothing sacred in this proverbial brave new world. Also, people died. NOT, going to the lifestream. NOT, fading away only to return another day. THEY DIED! They aren't coming back. This sorta gives the action scenes a bit more dramatic strength over the overrated kicking high that was AC's nonsensical action sequences. Think about it, who really died? Kadaj loz, and yazoo all go to the lifestream apparently, sephiroth buggers off but he'll be back, and cloud is resurrected for the umpteenth time. Who really gets hurt in the action scenes? Cloud is an unkillable cockroach, Tifa takes a siesta with no noticeable after effects, and loz and yazoo get their toys busted. The only one where there is any real injury is where bahamut goes down, and he just fades away instead of leaving a corpus delecti, so yah drop him a pheonix down and he'll be up and running again by the sequel.

Not to mention that the action scenes are nonsensical at best. There is more to creating a martial combat scene then kicking high and moving in slow motion. For crying out loud even the matrix got that right. A good fight scene should tell as much a story as the dialogue and quieter moments, it should feature technique, skill, power, and agility. Not alot of hopping, bopping, and shooting for no apparent reason then a vain attempt at grandstanding.

[Lilliputian Hitcher]

Also, people died. NOT, going to the lifestream. NOT, fading away only to return another day. THEY DIED! They aren't coming back. This sorta gives the action scenes a bit more dramatic strength over the overrated kicking high that was AC's nonsensical action sequences.

I actually felt that the shear volume of death in TSW was one of the weakest aspects of the movie. I mean, they virtually kill off the entire cast all confined within the last third or so (don't quote me on that. It could have started as far back as the last half) of the movie. Random character slaying was one of the aspects of the earlier FF games (ie FFII-IV) that I liked least and I’m quite glad that this dubious method of adding ‘depth’ to the game has since been abandoned. I’d prefer this sort of thing to remain within the horror genre, where it belongs.

[Ishin Ookami]

Well, I'm of a different opinion, I think character deaths add drama and meaning to a story, so long as it's done appropriately. I think FFVII the game is hideously overrated, but the death of Aerieth was one of the things I thought was done perfectly. I think no real action film can be believeable without having at least one major character die, because without the threat of imminent defeat and/or death , the action often lacks any real bite or impact.

There have been certain films where character deaths I felt were handled cheaply, just simply as a meager plot device rather then calculated for maximum impact. So I can understand where you are coming from, but SW I felt handled it's bodycount appropriately. Espescially the death of general hein. He did mean to kill himself, the government just gave him a MUCH bigger gun to do it with, and take those he hated with him. I do like the dramatic poignancy and irony in that development.

[Moon Rabbits]

I found SW much better.

AC = a lame story that didn't need to happen because FF7 wrapped itself up nicely.

SW = a meh storyline but not like...a crazy groundbreaking film (other than graphically).

[f f freak]

SW had way too much death. At the end there was what like two people left alive. They could have left just a few more people alive. Also AC had something to do with one of the final fantasy games. There wasn't even any magic that I can remember in SW. There was some magic in AC. There was no cool action sequences in SW. There was a decent amount in AC. Overall I think AC was much better. It had more of a storyline than lets go collect some random stuff and save the world. YAY. AC was like OMG Sephiroth clones that all look like girls apart from Loz who is a crybaby but at least they are decent villains who have names.

[Xurts]

Sorry about not having any quotes. Thank the Admins for succeeding in murdering them.

Also, people died. NOT, going to the lifestream. NOT, fading away only to return another day. THEY DIED! They aren't coming back.

In the FF7 world, EVERYONE goes back to the Lifestream when they die. Their Spirit Energy is recycled there to create new life.

hink about it, who really died? Kadaj loz, and yazoo all go to the lifestream apparently, sephiroth buggers off but he'll be back, and cloud is resurrected for the umpteenth time.

After AC, it is highly unlikely that Sephiroth will be able to return. At the end his will is so fragmented that it would be nearly impossible for him to retrieve all of it again, not to mention find more Jenova cells for a Reunion.

Nobody is ever resurrected in the FF7 Compilation, especially not Cloud since he never died in the first place.

Who really gets hurt in the action scenes? Cloud is an unkillable cockroach, Tifa takes a siesta with no noticeable after effects, and loz and yazoo get their toys busted.

All of the main characters are superhumanly strong in AC, so it is going to be very difficult for anyone to actually get hurt.

so yah drop him a pheonix down and he'll be up and running again by the sequel.

Phoenix Downs only work if someone is unconscious (hence the term KO). If they brought a dead person back to life then Aeris and Zack would still be alive.

Not to mention that the action scenes are nonsensical at best. There is more to creating a martial combat scene then kicking high and moving in slow motion. For crying out loud even the matrix got that right. A good fight scene should tell as much a story as the dialogue and quieter moments, it should feature technique, skill, power, and agility.

All of that is featured in the fight scenes, it just happens really fast. It wouldn't be realistic for the FF7 fans if the fights were normal-paced. Since at the end of FF7 everyone is super strong.

If you're going to knock it, then you could at least try to understand the plot and how everything works so you don't look like a total douche when you do it.

[Aralith]

Well, I must admit that I have never seen Spirits Within. However, from what I've heard about it, it is very much like Advent Children in the fact that it's a cult film. However, it would seem to me that AC would be a better cult film because of the fact that the game provides the backstory, while with SW no such thing exists to provide that kind of information. Overall though, most people have had a much better reaction to AC then to SW, so with my limited amount of info, I'm going to go with AC being better.

[Ishin Ookami]

Sorry about not having any quotes. Thank the Admins for succeeding in murdering them.

In the FF7 world, EVERYONE goes back to the Lifestream when they die. Their Spirit Energy is recycled there to create new life.


After AC, it is highly unlikely that Sephiroth will be able to return. At the end his will is so fragmented that it would be nearly impossible for him to retrieve all of it again, not to mention find more Jenova cells for a Reunion.

Nobody is ever resurrected

And in SW, everyone goes to Gaea. Difference is in SW, when someone dies, they stay dead. In SW cloud is beaten up, shot, stabbed, and blown to kingdom come. He was dead, his body obliterated, and the lifestream (along with some coaching from aerieth) resurrects him. Hence showing why the story is so lame.

Also, c'mon man, sephiroth managed to split himself up into kadaj, yazoo, and Loz without any jenova cells. So you mean to actually tell me you actually believe they wouldn't bring him back a third time. Oh wait, they already did that in KH II. Okay a fourth time then. :rolleyes2

All of the main characters are superhumanly strong in AC, so it is going to be very difficult for anyone to actually get hurt.

First of all, thanks for agreeing with me that noone suffers any long term damage in AC. It's nice that we see eye to eye on something.

second of all, here's a story for you. I have a friend who loves to knock on the 90's superman animated series, every time he see's the boxed sets in my collection, he goes on and on about how they wussified him, at certain points more then others. Which I agree with (c'mon, him getting owned by sinestro was just stupid) to a certain point, but I understand completely why the writers did it. A super powerful character is boring, lame, and just not interesting. Oh look, here comes a super villain, superman is just going to super punch and save the day. how long do you think the series could have lasted with that sort of plot outline for every episode?

point is characters who are super powerful and nigh invulnerable are boring, lame, and just not interesting. A character who is fallable is more interesting, we fear for them, cheer them on, feel their pain when they are beaten and humbled. Hence, why SW has the better action sequences. In AC, you know cloud won't die, I mean how many times does Aerieth save his punk ass? hence, why someone who actually cares for interesting storytelling would consider the fight sequences boring.

Phoenix Downs only work if someone is unconscious (hence the term KO). If they brought a dead person back to life then Aeris and Zack would still be alive.

hmmm, the phoenix being a legendary bird that rises from the dead, And you mean to tell me that Phoenix downs only cure unconsciousness? That's called sleep status, and the party not using a phoenix down is called a long criticized plot hole. People have been making fun of that plot point for 9 years by this point.

All of that is featured in the fight scenes, it just happens really fast. It wouldn't be realistic for the FF7 fans if the fights were normal-paced. Since at the end of FF7 everyone is super strong.

I take it your referring to my criticizing AC for not displaying any technique, skill, power and agility in their fight scenes? You don't know much about martial arts and the human body do you? here's a few MORE examples.

Already mentioned Tifa's inexplicable lack of dodging Loz's blow.

Sephiroth blocking a overhead leaping downward slash, which is more powerful then a charging slash due to gravity, and inertia, barehanded and then being taken out by the same sword that already failed to cut him is more then a little stupid.

And while we're there, how did cloud pull off his limit break? screw strength or power, the man has a gaping sword wound in his sword arm. That fight was done, I don't care how strong you are. I take a accidental hit on my good arm in kendo practice, and I need to go sit down. Sever the muscles and tendons that control that arm like sephiroth did to cloud, and I'd need a surgeon and a miracle to ever use that arm again.

Oh yah, and how did he pull out sephiroths sword from his shoulder without cutting off his fingers. He wrapped his fingers around the blade, so technically, he should have hurt himself worse.

And can someone tell me what the whole point of the initial fight scene is? besides demonstrating the inexplicably strong shades cloud is wearing and just how bad a shot yazoo is.

Cloud running up tree's vertically, and hovering in the air for ten seconds at a time, yeesh not even crouching tiger or Hero stretched wuxia physics to that silly point.

Then there was the whole silly and poor direction. Not once did we ever get a sense of who is the stronger or more skilled fighter at any time with any sense of continuity. Tifa turning in mid air, yet failing to dodge for five seconds while loz just stands there is silly, the fight in the forest is just so much hopping and bopping, I'm surprised mario doesn't sue. The fight with bahamut, puh-leeze. That was just iron monkey done vertical, and stupid.

Shall I go on?

If you're going to knock it, then you could at least try to understand the plot and how everything works so you don't look like a total douche when you do it.

wow, name calling. There's a cool headed convincing argument for yah. Way to present the facts in a convincing and charismatic light there.

EDIT: wow, you really can't use quotes anymore on these threads. apologies in advance if this makes this thread hard to read, it's pretty much a point by point reply to xertis (I think that's his name).

[Xurts]

In the FF7 world, nobody is ever resurrected either. They stay dead. Cloud never dies. He is knocked unconscious by the explosion at the end, and Avalanche takes him to the church where the Lifestream water heals him.

Sephiroth did not need Jenova cells to divide his will. I'm sure if he had his way he would've never divided it in the first place, but he had to to survive. Jenova cells had nothing to do with it, even though he does have them in the game. They are required, however, for a Reunion to occur, which is how he was able to return through Kadaj.

KH is in a different continuity than FF7. In no way are they related. Saying that Sephiroth was revived in KH is about as stupid as that one guy's theory saying that Aeris's twin died in FF7 and the actual Aeris was alive in KH. They are two totally different games.

We don't know if anyone suffered long-term damage. The movie takes place over a period of about 2 days, that is not near long enough to judge whether or not someone has suffered long-term damage.

Strong characters being boring is your opinion, so I'm not going to say anything about it.

I even think that the in-game descriptions of Phoenix Downs say something about reviving from KO. None of them ever say anything about reviving from the dead. I don't know where anyone got that idea from, because it is proved wrong so easily.

Loz was able to get an attack in at Tifa because he caught her off-guard by throwing a bench at her, and he used his speed boost to get over to her.

That isn't a wound on Cloud's arm either, it's Geostigma. Something entirely different.

When Cloud pulled out Sephiroth's sword, he obviously didn't put any pressure on the edge, just the broad side.

I don't get the first motorcycle scene myself. Like I've said before, it's one of AC's flaws. Every movie has them.

Besides, this isn't exactly our world with our physics and laws we are talking about here. This is on FF7's own world, just as SW is in its own as well.

From what I read from your posts, it seems that the only reason why you watch AC was so you could nit-pick and bash it, instead of actually paying attention to the plot and enjoying it.

Would you like me to go on a rant about how things in SW don't make sense? I'm sure I could find tons of little things in that movie as well, just as I could in any other movie I watch.

[Aralith]

hmmm, the phoenix being a legendary bird that rises from the dead, And you mean to tell me that Phoenix downs only cure unconsciousness? That's called sleep status, and the party not using a phoenix down is called a long criticized plot hole. People have been making fun of that plot point for 9 years by this point.

A little off topic but I had to add to this. A soft would have easily cleared up the Stone afflicting Red XIII's father. I always found that kind of funny. But to just kind of explain to Xurts why a Pheonix Down should revive someone from the dead (even if they don't) is because a pheonix is a magical bird with the power of healing and rebirth (resurrection). A down is a feather from a bird. Therefore, a pheonix down is a feather directly from a pheonix that should revive people. That's why there is the Pheonix Down/Aerith controversy.

[AdVenT]

AC is way better than SW, SW didn't even have anything to do with Final Fantasy in the first place.

[Lilliputian Hitcher]

Cloud running up tree's vertically, and hovering in the air for ten seconds at a time, yeesh not even crouching tiger or Hero stretched wuxia physics to that silly point.

Err, wasn’t there a scene in Hero where they were balancing on water with their swords. That scene was a little higher on this ‘ridiculous crap that could never happen’ meter IMO.

I even think that the in-game descriptions of Phoenix Downs say something about reviving from KO. None of them ever say anything about reviving from the dead. I don't know where anyone got that idea from, because it is proved wrong so easily.

I’m positive there are at least a few FF games where they specifically call the KO status ‘dead’.

That isn't a wound on Cloud's arm either, it's Geostigma. Something entirely different.

He meant the wound Cloud receives when he’s stabbed by Sephiroth. I’ll assume that they decided that it was best to throw logic out the window with that scene and instead try in with FFVII’s method of characters receiving Limit Breaks (ie heavy damage).

From what I read from your posts, it seems that the only reason why you watch AC was so you could nit-pick and bash it, instead of actually paying attention to the plot and enjoying it.

To be fair, it’s a lot easier to locate the flaws in the movie than it is to locate the plot.