American Anime

[outerlimit]

ARGh Im sorry I didn't read the whole topic but I gotta say how mucH THIS INFURATIES ME

Stupid american gaijin studios cannot CAN NOT make anime on par with the true craftsmen no matter how hard they may try! They lack th spirit and heritage! IT is a moneymakin ploy and not from the heart. ARGH I cant wait to leave this place and get away from these cheap knockoffs

[Ryushikaze]

^ Explain DBZ and GT. Moneymaking ploys to the core.

::Rolls eyes::

[ShunNakamura]

^ Explain DBZ and GT. Moneymaking ploys to the core.

::Rolls eyes::

I just have to quote this one for the truth . A company animation or otherwise is going to be trying to make money. Of course some are more of money grubbers then others.

[Ryushikaze]

And besides if it was really as much as a no issue it would have refered to orgininally as a point of trivia, and this would not have become an issue.

It wasn't an issue til people tried to say that I was wrong for using the original, inclusive definition.

And presenting the english sources that define and present usages of english words is really the only way to officially argue the english meaning of the word.

Except that the dictionary definition is a failure, and the encyclopedia is incredibly lacking in info. I can criticize sources if said sources are lacking.

The definition isn't *that bad*. Not as good as it could be, but it sums up the common usuage decently enough to stand. And the encyclopedia doesn't throw on the textra stuff.

Except in the common usage, toons from places like America, Korea, Canada, and France are still called Anime.

and I just pointed out that the usage(when concerning the english language) is correct, and the 'purists' usage is incorrect.

Except that the usage is not universal, the dictionary definition is rather useless, and the 'purists' are on equally solid ground, and in this case, we're not even saying that you can't use it that way, we're just saying it's not the ONLY definition.
Definitions do not vanish between languages. They only vanish as they fall into disuse.

In japan anime means animation, in English it means animation from japan. Pretty simple. I have already shown that loan words do not need to retain thier original meaning.

No, but you do need to show that this makes the original definition invalid.

A loan word that didn't keep it's original/historic definition? No big deal, languages evolve.

A loan word whose 'common' definition suffices, but is technically incorrect as it ignores a signifigant portion of what the word actually means.

The definition appears fairly complete,though there are things I would change about it. Rather the reason it got so long is because people such as yourself and Ryushikaze are unwilling to admit that the correct english usage is as the dictionary defines it.

And people such as yourself are too pigheaded to admit that this does not make the other definition invalid.

[ShunNakamura]

Can people read? I heard illiteracy was striking our shores but I thought it was a hit and miss thing... not super conclusive. I do not like having to requote myself because someone misreads.

Now as a note, I got no problem with people who use the word anime to refer to all forms of animation(since I see it as a viable use of it), however, it IS defined as japanese style animation. Meaning any who use it that way are well within being right and shouldn't have the 'purists' trying to shove them around. Their use is just as right as the 'purists'(and actually in this region that is the correct usage; however, the internet breaks down region barriers so I could care less who's culture you use when using words, just make sure others know what you mean).

It wasn't an issue til people tried to say that I was wrong for using the original, inclusive definition.

And I believe you were the first one to say someone was wrong for using it to refer specifically to animation from japan.

At Shiny: Actually, that's not true. Bugs Bunny is Anime, to the japanese. 'Anime' is a truncuation of 'Animation', and they use it to refer to Japanese, American, Canadian, etc. animation, noting the difference as 'Nihongo no anime' or 'America no anime'.

The only thing that makes anime is that someone is describing it as such.

Of course, I don't dissaprove of using it as an identifying name, provided two things are done-
1- You do not treat it like it's a style. It isn't. And shame on you for thinking that.
2- You also use similar locale terminology to refer to Korean, French, and other animations and comics. No special status for the Japanese, ya hear?
.

What it sounds like to me is you were saying they were wrong.(if you would have just kept it with the first paragraph, it likely would have been fine since you were mention how another culture uses it)

What I am saying is that the ENGLISH use of the word(and this is easy to proof until you present an official english source that says the dictionary is wrong when it concerns the english usage of the word) is "style of animation developed in japan".

They are right with the use of the word. You are using a non-standard(when concerning english) use of the word. Doesn't make you wrong, unless you try to claim that is the english use.

[Ryushikaze]

And you failed to quote what I was originally responding to.

But, the only thing that defines something as anime is that it comes from Japan.

Seeing as there are other definitions of what anime is, this statement is not true.

[Shiny]

Americans sometimes share a similar style of drawing as the Japanese, but that does not define something as being anime, because Americans commonly use the word cartoon as stated before.

[ShunNakamura]

They were fairly close. To put it simply all definitions of anime deal with how it comes from japan(whether it is a style or animation).

And don't try and spout other definitions off. It is fairly obvious that if you are speaking english that you are using the word in the english way unless you specifically specify otherwise. For english use they were close enough to being right.

Edit-- and as a note I did read the post you were replying to... I just don't feel like quoting whole conversations over and over again.

[Ryushikaze]

They were fairly close. To put it simply all definitions of anime deal with how it comes from japan(whether it is a style or animation).

Except not all definitions do.

And don't try and spout other definitions off. It is fairly obvious that if you are speaking english that you are using the word in the english way unless you specifically specify otherwise. For english use they were close enough to being right.

Y'know, for someone who says 'purists' are uppity and rude, you're acting that way now. You're pleading that a perfectl valid definition is somehow invalid, simply because it is a foreign- and source- definition, and you're also claiming that there is only one english way, when the very fact that we're having this argument, when Wiki- a source mostly defined by the popular interpretation lists both, is ample evidence that there is more than one english definition in common usage.

Edit-- and as a note I did read the post you were replying to... I just don't feel like quoting whole conversations over and over again.

It's not the lack of quoting, it's the lack of context. You neglected to mention I was responding to a very specific comment, which was actually incorrect.

At shiny: And they commonly don't.

[ShunNakamura]

I would love for you to use wiki as an only source at any of the colleges or schools at my area... I have had freinds who get an instant zero for using that as thier only sourch. It does not count as a valid official source.

And even then Wiki supports me by saying that in English countries it is used in that specific way.


As for that post I do something called reading inbetween the lines. See the person was speaking english, was an english speaker(to my knowledge) and likely resides in an english country. Now I read inbetween see that they were likely talking about the english use of the word.

[Vyk]

Its just sad that the Wiki is more refined and therefor arguably more accurate in its definition than an official source. Perhaps a different dictionary's definition would have been a good idea. I personally have no problem with using the term anime to refer towards a style of animation that originated in Japan. I just don't like that it supposedly refers to a style that originated in Japan and has to have 3 out of 4 of the following: colorful, mech, violence, and sex. When some of my particularly favorite animes involve only one. The colorful style anime is commonly known for.

But then that of course is no personal problem with you, Shun, just whoever you used as a dictionary managed to find a pet peeve of mine. But I think I'll just sit the rest of this argument out. You're both pretty pig-headed and stubborn :] No offense

[ShunNakamura]

I don't care for that last bit either(I would cut it off). The 3 out of four was just me trying to show that alot of anime does have it... I sure hope anime doesn't have to have 3 out of four of those characteristics :P.

Also I will take this time to quickly make warning that I am in and have been in a really bad mood.... so I have likely been rude and nasty as is usual when I am in a bad mood. Right now I am just so exhausted from my illness draining all my strength that I am more amiable(basically I am too tired to get my hackles up). Just wanted to make sure everyone knows it isn't anything personal or based on this argument, I have been nasty to anyone when my mouth opens. And just cause I love this analogy. Generally when someone is shortempered it is described as a short fuse ready to go off. Me, when as ill as I am, am not a short fuse. I am a keg of gunpowder that is already smoldering. So I just take this time to appoligize for excessive rudeness and nastyness.

As for the wiki, I use it myself, but I never use anything from it(except to make jokes from) unless I have another source that agrees with it. I just use it to see if that topic might interest me. In addition they somtimes provide nice links.

[feona17]

Yeesh, people are so touchy about this subject. Okay, um, basically anime is just animation. Everybody got that part? Alright good.

Over here in North America, Europe and all that jazz, we refer to anime as animation originating in Japan. But, that's just slang. Right? Understand? It's not actually 'anime' or anything, it's just animation from that specfic country, we, gave anime that meaning.

We've taken that slang so far that it actually becomes a real word describing the style of Japanese animation. Virtually most if not all animation in Japan has that certain style, and everyone here knows what I'm referring to.

Now, the Japanese could easily refer to "American" animation as anime. Because anime IS animation, right? The Japanese could easily say that American animation has a certain style, and if a show that originated in Japan were to draw from this so called American style, it's the same as when American animators are influnced by Japanese animation.

Now keep it mind, that it's ALL animation, it's ALL the same, just the two countries happen to have some sort of signature style that is recognizable.

But since the majority of us here are North American/European and other, (basically not Japanese) we refer to the Japanese style of animation, 'anime'. In this case, anime doesn't mean animation, it's slang for Jap animation. Now I'm repeating myself, but what the hey.

[StarlightAngel]

.....wasn't this originally about what your opinion was on Americans trying to copy the style found in many anime (note that I'm using it as a shortened "Japanime")?

Personally, I don't really mind if they try immitating the style. If it's a piece of crap, I won't watch it. If I like it, I'll probably watch it.

There's even a company that publishes American manga. Though it is a bit confusing as to why some of them write it reading right to left (like unflopped Japanese manga), some of it is actually pretty good.

I really don't see what the whole debate about the meaning of anime is about. Here it is commonly used to mean animation made in Japan/by Japanese. Can't we just leave it at that and continue on the topic?

[Vyk]

No... It refers to a style. Because an untrained eye will think Korean animation has said "style made in Japan" when it's not Japanese. Though I suppose saying asian style is okay. But yeah. I think it is crucial to debate the term a little. You have to understand what you're arguing for or against. If someone uses a generalized definition for the term, and then says america can't do that. They're being a hypocrite. If they want america to be distinct, they need to make a distinction in their view as well. I hope that made sense