Explanation on the R=U theory?

[Wilder]

excuse me Mr Khan if my crappy english scared you, is because I am still trying to learn it, and the American - English difference is the last thing I worry about. And my comment was about not giving the reason to one or another but to see the theory on both sides. if you have fun trashing R-U ignoring the facts in the game, that is even more sad than your sense of humor. peace yo !

[Disco Potato]

I don't know how much of this is repetitive or just plain weird, but I kinda wrote something on the whole R=U theory a few months ago. It's nothing like many of the replies here but it's just some of my thoughts on the matter:
http://members.cox.net/flowergrlk/fr...t/rinulty.html

Anyways, when all is said and done it's still just a game...there are a lot more important issues worth fighting for. Of course, this IS an FF8 forum but still...

[Wilder]

I don't know how much of this is repetitive or just plain weird, but I kinda wrote something on the whole R=U theory a few months ago. It's nothing like many of the replies here but it's just some of my thoughts on the matter:
http://members.cox.net/flowergrlk/fr...t/rinulty.html

When all is said and done it's still just a game...there are a lot more important issues worth fighting for. Of course, this IS an FF8 forum but still...

That was so funnie !, Hey stop fighting this is just a game, you should worry about the war !, now, read my 200 lines toughts about R-U

[Skyblade]

Stop spittin' at me about 'theories' and 'facts' and all that, cuz that's not gonna work with me. I want to know why you don't allow people talk about it? Why is it so wrong to you and yours?

Ah, ok. I misunderstood you. First off, despite your claims, I dislike people arguing against the R=U thoery just as much as I dislike people arguing for it. It feels like listening to two people arguing about what color water is. One person says its magenta, the other says its blue. They're both idiots, one for stating an obvious falsehood , and the other for bothering to sit around arguing about it.

The other reason why the R=U theory gets on my nerves is because there hasn't been an original argument for it in years. Every argument presented in favor of it has been gone over several hundred times and been countered several hundred more. Eventually, you get sick of it. But still there are people who wouldn't admit that the R=U theory is false even if Square-Enix came out and said "Rinoa is not Ultimecia, now get a life you obsessive freaks". There are people who so want to believe these crackpot theories that they will do anything, come up with the most complex BS the world has ever seen, and ignore any evidence to the contrary just to make themselves seem correct. And people like that really piss me off.

I just want to post what I think and share it with others instead of being hesitant, or afraid, because of the 'haters' and have it closed because of the results flames...

Please. Spare me the whole "I am being unfairly persecuted" riff. You are free to post whatever the hell you want. But, guess what? Such freedom goes both ways. We are also free to post whatever the hell we want to. You are free to post your theories, and we are free to criticize them (and you), provided we don't break the rules. That's the way it works, and if your delicate sensibilities can't accept that, tough. Free speech means free speech for everyone, not just for you.

[Ryushikaze]

Somehow I knew that would draw you out...

Draw me out? I'm not hiding. Are you having delusions of conspiracy?

And everything you just said is... well... B.S.

If by B.S. you mean Bloody Sound, then yes, it was. Otherwise, no.

There's no 'evidence'

Not for R=U, no.

and Yeah... Rinoa still COULD be Ultimecia... That's it.

And so could Irvine with all the hoops you gotta jump through to get there.

No matter what you say or whatever "facts" you come up with you can't change my or anyone's mind. There's not sense in me explaining it to you because you're always gonna just called it a 'postulate' or whatever...

You certainly don't have anywhere near enough empirical support to consider calling it a theory, so yes, postulate is accurate.

You and your's treat this as if it should not even be spoken about, like it's 'against the law'.

I treat it like the outlandish and unsupported idea that it is. I'd do the sameif someone suggested that Selphie was a crack ho.

Why is that?

I believe in rational thinking.

Now, you can keep spouting all you want... I've heard it all before... For once SOMEONE is going to post their beliefs about the R=U and admit that there is NOTHING you and yours can do...

1- Yes they will.
2- No, I- I have no 'mine'- will not.

You can't stop me and mine from thinking, believeing or whatever about no more than a Christian can 'convert' a devout Muslim.

No, but I can point out that all of your beliefs are grounded in irrational thinking, lack empirical support, and are all sorts of ridiculous, as I would do to both the christian and the muslim.
Oh, and get off this 'muslim' schtick. No one cares.

So sit back... flip through your thesaurus... Cuz, it's on...:love:

If you want to try clever wordplay, expect the cold mercilless fist of rational thought to go into overdrive.

Mommy put the kids to bed and break out the "His" and "Hers" paddles, DADDY'S HOME!!! (It's a new quote I'm working on. Just tryin' it out):greenie:

No. Seriously. You are not funny. It is in your best interests to stop attempting to be witty.

[Wilder]

pointless. Somebody explain to me why Squall don´t have a hole in the place edea putted an ice stick , or why you want ignore the ubication of the ultimecia´s palace, or rinoa´s wings turning black ( being rinoa and ultimecia the only characters that have wings ), or the ridiculous 3 frames of ultimecia FMV ( the only ones in the whole game, and I supose nobody noticed it at first) flashing between rinoa´s eyes, if you modeled a character on FMV, and not any character, the freakin final boss and put it less than a second flahing on rinoa face, that got to be something planned, oh yeah, and don´t forget just after that scene you see squall crying, clear enough to make a theory ?.


I'll be hereWhy?I'll be waiting... here...For what?I'll be waiting... for you... so...If you come here...You'll find me.
promise.

So the time has come. You're the legendary SeeD destined to face me?


Enough to talk about it

[Ryushikaze]

pointless. Somebody explain to me why Squall don´t have a hole in the place edea putted an ice stick

Full Cure. NEXT.

, or why you want ignore the ubication of the ultimecia´s palace,[/quote]

Decidedly away from the 'there of the promise'. And just say 'place'.

or rinoa´s wings turning black ( being rinoa and ultimecia the only characters that have wings ),

1- When do Rinoa's go Black? and
2- Adel has wings. Edea has feathers and birdlike talons.

or the ridiculous 3 frames of ultimecia FMV ( the only ones in the whole game, and I supose nobody noticed it at first) flashing between rinoa´s eyes, if you modeled a character on FMV, and not any character, the freakin final boss and put it less than a second flahing on rinoa face, that got to be something planned,

And how many other characters flash by as well? You're ascribing too much signifigance to an FMV without taking it into context.

oh yeah, and don´t forget just after that scene you see squall crying, :confused: clear enough to make a theory ?.

Squall is crying because he can't get his memories straight, and as such, can't get home to his honey. Seriously, folks. Parsimony.

I'll be hereWhy?I'll be waiting... here...For what?I'll be waiting... for you... so...If you come here...You'll find me.
promise.

And she does.

So the time has come. You're the legendary SeeD destined to face me?

Yes. Not 'promise fulfilled', not 'You left me waiting', just 'So you are the one'.

Enough to talk about it

But not enough to give it any merit under a rational inquiry.

[Sir Bahamut]

Wilder:

You should read the R=U section of the Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ found here:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/game/197343.html

Although Ryu already answered your questions more bluntly, the FAQ will answer you more indepth, hopefully indepth enough to convince you.

[PhoenixAsh]

I was actually gonna recommend that link to everyone. Although I have expressed my concerns over its methodology, it gives a fairly comprehensive account of the arguments in favour of R=U as well. Whether you agree with the counter-arguments or not (I agree with them in part, but not overall), it might prevent people claiming that R=U is based on nothing.

[Wilder]

Full cure ? come on !! lets use a phoenix down on aeris then !. And the FMV is a point that you can´t ignore because the R-U begins there. What I meant about squall being atacked by edea is a strong theory about things that can´t happen in the FFVIII universe, and a counterpoint to those who say that is ilogical that ultimecia had forgotten her own young face, and even the possibility of killing herself. When square make that game about time travel I´m sure they knew the paradox were going to be infinite. When you complete the game, you realize that this characters are destined to do the whole plot over and over, and that´s exactly what the last FMV mean, the same scene repeating over and over. two characters should die in the process, squall and rinoa ( the space scene ), or at least , this is what square want us to think, but they magically don´t die, so far the circle can´t be broken, Ultimecia can´t kill herself if she´s rinoa. Later you see squall, edea, young squall, and ultimecia in the same scene, this causes so many paradox !!, Squall is trying to kill ultimecia and stop the process but is not possible. But, what happen in the mind of young squall and edea for them to forget the face of old squall and ultimecia ? . And about that interpretation of squall crying because he love so much rinoa and he miss her, if we are going to get psicological about the interpretation of the video, at least take in consideration the 3 frames of ultimecia, the rinoa images fading and deforming, the way those repeats and repeats, and the tear just right after the ultimecia - rinoa flash.

[Sir Bahamut]

Wilder, you seriously need to read that FAQ. Although PhoenixAsh has raised some valid criticism of certain aspects of it, it will at worst help clarify a lot of what you think of as "paradoxes" and explain the fallacies of some of your arguments (eg. Ultimecia's face flashing over Rinoa is hardly worth considering, seeing as Edea's face also flashes over it immediately before). Because quite frankly, you seem to have a very confused view on the matters you are addressing.

By the way, PhoenixAsh, I feel compelled to discuss in a bit more length the argument you raised about the splitting up of hints vs. combined power thing whenever I next have time to update the FAQ. Unfortunately, that won't be for a while, due to school, but just thought I'd let you know. I will, for the record, still maintain that the theory is not valid, but will in any case give more attention to that particular argument.

[finalfantasyguy4ever]

didnt i say this was the r=u thread when this thread began and people said i was wrong this looks like it though


u guys sound mlike little kids

r=u rinoas ulti
r-u no shes not
r=u yes she is
r-u no shes not
r=u yes she is
r-u no shes not

and they argued happily ever after the end hahahaha

[Jimmy Dark Aeons Slayer]

The problem is that there will always be supporters even if the creators came and said look Ultimecia is not Rinoa there would still be people saying that she was...

Personally i think that almost every answer given in regard to the fact that Rinoa could not be Ultimecia are enough to destroy such a theory and much more accurate than the explanations given by the defenders of such an annoying theory.

[finalfantasyguy4ever]

if the people who made it said it ant true its not if u r=u fans want to go on with this make ur own video game then u can be the creators

[PhoenixAsh]

Sir Bahamut - yes I would like to go into that as well. I'm going to be fairly limited in access to EoFF after next week, but hopefully should be able to get on to discuss it. The FAQ did a very good job of breaking everything down and discussing pros and cons, but it would be nice to see how the theory stands with its arguments united. Also, parsimony might side with R=U if it explains lots of different things in one foul swoop (okay thats not very likely but still, it might prevent parsimony being such a reason against it)

finalfantasyguy4ever we have already discussed that it is perfectly possible to debate whether or not one can hold that the game suggests R=U without holding that R=U is cannon when everything else is considered. From what I remember this is one of the most calm and reasoned discussions (apart from the recent bickering, which actually seems to have resolved itself) I have seen. If you do not wish to take part in such a discussion, then no one will force you. If you do wish to take part, then please offer further reasons for your opinion of why R=U is wrong (those you offered earlier were fairly well refuted IMHO).